Buying a I-miev

Post by **Hippie403** » Mon, 01 Jul 2013, 17:50

Chadstone Mitsubishi in Melbourne have a fast charger but you have to make a booking with their service department to use it. Not exactly convenient.

Post by **Tritium_James** » Mon, 01 Jul 2013, 21:02

acmotor wrote:Good man ! Do we take that as a vote of confidence in CHAdeMO ?

Heh, sort of... our charger does Combo SAE too - we're covering both bases.

acmotor wrote:Any other locations in Oz ?

Not yet, although we've got a lot of interest.

acmotor wrote:Re the DC connection circuit. It can be seen that, apart from the 280A fuse in the centre of the battery string, the battery is direct to the outside world with no other limits. (once CHAdeMO handshakes both analogue and CAN digital have been satisfied so ECU will operate the contactors). The hack minded will of course note that it is just a 12V relay coil, externally accessable in wiring loom, that would need to be operated. The sales of CHAdeMO connectors are about to rise.

I don't think that diagram is quite right (showing the only thing controlling the contactor coils is 12V from the charger) - the vehicle can also choose to turn the contactors off. Although it can't turn them on by itself, the Chademo charger needs to supply 12V to provide power to the coils. So the car only turns things on if all the handshaking goes OK, and there's a LOT of handshaking!

Also, don't forget that the vehicle controls the fast charging process, so you can't just do the handshaking, and then start shoving in as much power as you can (or sucking it back out), since if the charger isn't doing what the car asks, the car kicks the charger off and shuts the whole process down. The charger has to be within an amp or two of what the car's asking for at all times.

Post by **acmotor** » Mon, 01 Jul 2013, 23:23

How many EV's in Oz have factory Combo SAE so far ?

TJ, I have researched the handshaking and CHAdeMO proceedure. It is not that complex but credit to them for thinking out a relatively safe method of having the public play with high power DC !!

Yes, the EV can interrupt the 12V from the charger. I did say that that circuit was only part of the fast charger diagrams. Diagram is quite correct. (when you refer to the whole picture, sorry for not posting more)

Here is another page that may clarify the control wiring.
(first page was back here)

You can see that the ECU can both measure and interrupt the 12V from the external fast charger.

All the BMS info is avail on the CAN bus.

edit: you can right click on the diagram and select view image for a full screen higher res view of course.
edit: note the numbering of connector pins is different to Yazaki numbers ?... you have to trace signal names. Power wire is 40mmsq.
edit: the files on workshop CD are pdfs so I screen dump to .png to put on forum. Files are a lot higher res than this post. e.g. enlargement:-

Website · Post by **Simon** » Tue, 02 Jul 2013, 01:39

Here is what the Chademo battery cables looks like underneath.

Post by **Lismore_Doug** » Tue, 02 Jul 2013, 03:16

More info on Chademo:
<https://code.google.com/p/open-chademo/>

regards Doug

Post by **acmotor** » Tue, 02 Jul 2013, 03:22

Yeah, Its rather an empty web site so far. Just the pdfs from the CHAdeMO association.
I emailled Jeremy months back but no reply. (maybe he doesn't talk to Australia

).
Its probably early days for an open CHAdeMO.
I can't even find a source for the connector yet. Any leads ?

Post by **Lismore_Doug** » Tue, 02 Jul 2013, 23:56

Hi,
I spoke to Origin Energy today, & apparently I can charge on Off Peak 1 Rate. I will have to wait for my open EVSE to be finished, but it will be permanently wired to OP1, which gives 6 hours between 10Pm & 7 AM. 6 hours at 13.5A gives 20Kw, so more than enough. works out to $2.08/16Kwh.

If I need to top up during the day, I will have a 15A socket beside the EVSE, so I can plug the car EVSE in for a slightly slower charge.

regards Doug

Post by **Adverse Effects** » Wed, 03 Jul 2013, 00:46

why is your offpeak only 13.5 amps?

the hot water system in my house is on its own 50 amp circuit (well its a 50 amp braker)

Post by **Lismore_Doug** » Wed, 03 Jul 2013, 02:34

My circuit would be similar.

The max current the Imiev will draw is 3300/240= ~13.5 amps (3300 watts limited by the charger). It would be nice to charge faster, but you need a ChadeMO to charge faster, using the DC connector, so bypassing the AC charger.

regards Doug

Post by **acmotor** » Wed, 03 Jul 2013, 07:56

Lismore_Doug wrote: Hi,
... wired to OP1, which gives 6 hours between 10Pm & 7 AM. 6 hours at 13.5A gives 20Kw, so more than enough. works out to $2.08/16Kwh.
....

I don't follow the 6 hours bit ? 10pm to 7am is 9 hours. Is there something more to it ?

I always charge at the lowest rate for the given time e.g. if I have 9 hours then charge at 10A (or less if possible). Total charge from zero on 10A is only 7 hours. That is kindest to the battery life (as we are told) and makes it easier if you are generating/storing your own power as well.

Post by **Lismore_Doug** » Wed, 03 Jul 2013, 12:56

Red,
Offpeak 1 supply specifies 6 hours/day, supplied between 10pm & 7am. It could start (& even be interrupted) any time between, but guarantees 6 hours availability. (offpeak2 gives 12 hours in 2 blocks during a 24h period, but is more expensive: you can only choose op1 or op2)
I was thinking about this last night: I will need to power the electronics in the EVSE (probably small 12v battery), then charging will start when the op contactor supplies power.

I have a 5Kw grid fed solar system, so as far as I am concerned, I am offsetting my power use.(But I don want to get into a philosophical argument about that: I try to live fairly softly on the planet!)

The fact that the power comes on & may drop out gives some problems for the EVSE that will require sorting. It will be a oood project because someone on Solar only supplied power for instance could feed the inverter o/p to the EVSE & the car will charge when power is available (which would link very well with accessing the CHadeMO connector & extracting power out there, so using the car battery as a power source, ie the car becomes a mobile battery bank. Of course it would require management, but would be useful.)

regards Doug

Post by **acmotor** » Wed, 03 Jul 2013, 16:35

Ah OK, our TOD metering is just 9pm to 7am for the off peak rate with no switching. Those op1 /op2 systems in NSW are not here though Western Power has trialled EV charge via remote switching.... a bit scary.

How many switching event per 6 hour block can there be ?

I pick up a fair bit of power overnight from wind turbine (when wind blows !)
The plan is to increase battery storage of off peak power + wind/solar so inverter can charge EV and provide house power during peak times.
That will require 20kWh storage....

Post by **antiscab** » Thu, 04 Jul 2013, 02:57

Lismore_Doug wrote:I will need to power the electronics in the EVSE (probably small 12v battery), then charging will start when the op contactor supplies power.

The EVSE only needs power while charging - it doesn't matter if power is interrupted, charging will still start when the op contactor supplies power

It might be worthwhile doing if the EVSE has it's own internal clock and timer, but that would be pointless as that's already done externally

Matt

Post by **Lismore_Doug** » Thu, 04 Jul 2013, 04:05

I was emailing Chris in the Us who designed the Open EVSE about my power issue, & he warned me about dropping power during a charge: apparently not very good with Leaves. Consequently I need to do more research on how OP1 is supplied.

Funny you mention about Wind turbines: I have a story to relate. It goes like this: I looked at the economics of wind compared to Solar a few years ago, & the fact that the average wind speed where i am on a ridge near Lismore, NSW is 6m/s, the wind looked good on paper. I bought a 5Kw Hummer (servo controlled) turbine, with 13m Hydraulic mast, & installed it using the planning exemption available for ´windmills´ (which they fit under). All went well, but the approval to grid connect rules changed during my commissioning, so I had to employ a ´wind Certified´ Technician to certify my wiring & installation (who had far fewer skills than I consider I have, or qualifications) So t was hooked up, then came the fine tuning: the issue was that the tower was resonating, & during wind drops the noise was above the background for a short time. I had neighbors that had heard all about the bad stories of wind turbines & their alleged low frequency noise, so they rang the council & complained. I could not use the unit at night, & had to disconnect at 7pm, totally uneconomical, with all this for a noise I was improving measured by Council using dodgy techniques at 55db in the open (so the noise would have been less inside). My house is about 40M from the turbine, & we could just hear it: they were 150M away. Next they threatened to take me to the Supreme court! (Did I mention one has a law degree?). I said this was silly & we should discuss it, so the upshot was they subsidized me into 5kw solar. (which still cost me another $13K extra.

Wanna buy a s/h wind turbine? (Actually it is a good design, & would work well in the right environment. I have done most of the debugging)

So... Thats my story. But we now have our Imiev (which we pick up on Saturday). Now to find a pet name for it. Being a Pugophile, I am thinking of changing the 3 cornered star to the Froggie Lion seeing they sold a version of it (& I m sure Mr Bushi would love me for it!)

regards Doug

Post by **acmotor** » Thu, 04 Jul 2013, 06:33

That's tough about the wind turbine. Was it an omen that the brand was 'hummer' ? in fact that is a double negative

Our WT is all but silent unless you put an ear on the tower and our nearest neighbour is about 2km.

Anyway, PV rules over WT now that PV prices have come down to <$1/W

Tell me, was the noise blades or torque ripple from the PM alternator ?

Keep in mind that the only puggsly part of the French iMiEV is the badge.

edit: look out for the damages claim from the lawyer when the EV's stray EMF fries their blakberry.

Post by **acmotor** » Thu, 04 Jul 2013, 08:07

Now I recall, Lismore Doug off the ATA forums.
Does the WT .... I'll start another thread.

here wind turbine noise topic

Post by **Lismore_Doug** » Thu, 04 Jul 2013, 13:19

The noise was torque ripple from the alternator. When the speed ramped down, the alternator vibrated. It was a balancing act between the MPPT curve & good output from low wind. The resonance was beatable: I was intending to pack the middle of the tower with styrofoam which would move the resonance. Most noise emanated from the tower. The design of the unit was great. My measurements of the noise was jut over 50db, but the council set a unit up about 15m from the road & measured 55db. I reckon that was the cars going past. The issue really was obnoxious neighbors causing problems, not so much the turbine.
The turbine now rests vertical, with no blades: what a waste!

I know aboit the pug Ion: that was very much TIC. (besides, the badges would cost about $100).
On another note,now have all the makings of the open EVSE on the way. I will be getting the garage ready for the 15A power point today. The economics look good: $2 full charge on off peak, against about $11 for similar distance in the Pug. (About $1000 saving/year + servicing savings ($1000?)

Post by **ZIPPIE11CAR** » Fri, 05 Jul 2013, 20:14

First drive to the train station.

EV grin

Thanks to Russell Hall from Bunbury Auto Group.

Post by **ZIPPIE11CAR** » Fri, 05 Jul 2013, 20:16

He still has the brand new blue Imiev for sale also

Post by **acmotor** » Fri, 05 Jul 2013, 20:17

Hope it was to catch an electric train (with regen) !!!

Post by **ZIPPIE11CAR** » Fri, 05 Jul 2013, 20:19

They way they brake I would be surprised if it wasn't

Post by **ZIPPIE11CAR** » Sat, 06 Jul 2013, 06:52

First impressions:
1. Gearbox drive position should be illuminated around shaft.
2. Lunch box on charging lead is too close to plug. Should be midway on lead IMO so that the box is on the ground or at least a meter from the lead so the lunch box can go on a bench.
3. Indicator noise is annoying.
4. Goes through the juice quicker than I thought it would.
5. Blind spots around rear passenger windows.
6.Should have cruise control & display system for charge/range.
7. Rear vision mirror doesn't seem right for car.
8.As nimble as it gets.
9.Enjoyable to drive & quite around the burbs.
10. Comfortable, nice high driving position with good forward view.
11.Starting to become an enjoyable game to keep the needle on the charge side. Albeit a bit distracting

looking forward to improve my driving to get the best out of the cars range.
12.Average stereo.
13. Highway noise a little high.
For all the minor cons, great little car.

Post by **g4qber** » Sat, 06 Jul 2013, 06:57

hv u read my review of the imiev Z?
viewtopic.php?title=the-imiev-experience&t=3031

and check this SIG out
http://www.aeva.asn.au/content/mitsubishi-imiev-sig

the rough seat belt cover is something to look forward to.

Post by **antiscab** » Sat, 06 Jul 2013, 12:23

ZIPPIE11CAR wrote: 2. Lunch box on charging lead is too close to plug. Should be midway on lead IMO so that the box is on the ground or at least a meter from the lead so the lunch box can go on a bench.

Can't be too hard to open up and add a bit more lead.

Personally I went to masters and bought a 15A extension lead, then swapped the male end for a 10A plug

ZIPPIE11CAR wrote: 4. Goes through the juice quicker than I thought it would.

I get 100km range even though I spend lots of time at 100kmh

Biggest thing I find is going easy on the acceleration if you need all the range that day. Also steer clear of using the heater if you need lots of range - make use of the seat warmer

ZIPPIE11CAR wrote: 6.Should have cruise control & display system for charge/range.

It does have a remaining range guage - just keep pushing the odo button until you get to it - it will say a number between 80km and 140km at full charge, depending upon how you were driving when you parked it and what stuff you have on.

ZIPPIE11CAR wrote: 11.Starting to become an enjoyable game to keep the needle on the charge side. Albeit a bit distracting looking forward to improve my driving to get the best out of the cars range.

Best economy comes from staying in the green zone - not accelerating too hard, and don't regen/charge zone unless you want to slow down (would otherwise be braking)

ZIPPIE11CAR wrote: 12.Average stereo.

Did you get the sat nav unit?

its all 12v, so a better stereo is just a trip to strathfields away

Matt

Post by **acmotor** » Sat, 06 Jul 2013, 17:45

Average stereo ? Yep, but at least it doesn't have to overcome the exhaust and engine noises of an ICE.

Keeping in mind that 'stereo' itself is a new concept for my generation.

Agreed highway road noise is also average for a little vehicle. Then again, the quite and smooth in city (target use) is delightful !

The single speed transmission in traffic and for zipping around is fantastic

There simply is no auto trans that smooth, no how hard they try.... and a 6 speed manual in traffic.... masochist is the only word for it !

Perhaps crossed thoughts there on the regen ?
Basically using regen instead of mechanical brakes is the key. Long and steady rather than short max regen is better. Remember regen is also done by the top end of the brake pedal travel as well.
Keeping the power needle in the blue is quite logically better than anywhere in the green. It is just that you need to be in the green most of the time to drive !

I used to pay a lot of attention to driving economically but now I just drive and enjoy. Other than speed >100km/h (and the heater) not much else really eats up the power. The needle goes to 3 o'clock and my thinking is that it was meant to so dust doesn't collect on the RHS !