Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
Post Reply
Kim_Wilko
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 08 Oct 2018, 21:33
Real Name: Kim

Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by Kim_Wilko » Mon, 08 Oct 2018, 21:49

hi all,
Newbie here
Interested in buying an EV in the near future (say within 6 months)
Trying to get a feel for the Total Cost of Ownership" over the life of the car (as it will probably be my last).

RAC WA has published some costs of ownership over 5 years for several current EVs (as well as lots of ICEs) - see attached document.
Web-site is here: https://rac.com.au/car-motoring/info/bu ... ning-costs
I have an excess of energy from the PV array, so plan (hope) to power the EV from this source.

Would be interested in your comments from the real world.
cheers Kim
Attachments
VOC_2018_Electric.pdf
RAC WA costs of owning different EVs in 2018
(55.73 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

User avatar
mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 08:42

As RAC say, the biggest cost is depreciation, so an EV should compare well to a similarly priced ICE, but poorly compared to a similarly specced ICE which is half the price. If it is going to be your last car, that may not concern you.

Electricity cost and insurance should be pretty easy to work out.
Servicing should be a little cheaper for an EV.
Out of warranty repairs can be highly variable and depend on luck, I suspect more than an ICE car at the moment but should end up less as they become more mainstream.
My recent problems with i-MiEV charger would cost $5000+ to have repaired by the dealer, but some people have managed to fix themselves for about $200.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2393
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by jonescg » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 09:55

The RAC report included the cost of finance, as if to suggest that borrowing money to buy a car is not only the done thing, it's encouraged.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

Kim_Wilko
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 08 Oct 2018, 21:33
Real Name: Kim

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by Kim_Wilko » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 10:22

There is some logic in the inclusion of financing cost, as it could be earning interest . However that is much less than the charges for borrowed money.

Jin
Noobie
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed, 26 Sep 2018, 18:31

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by Jin » Tue, 04 Dec 2018, 14:56

I disagree with the depreciation on
Tesla there. They hold their value better then ice cars.

Kim_Wilko
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 08 Oct 2018, 21:33
Real Name: Kim

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by Kim_Wilko » Tue, 04 Dec 2018, 19:23

Hi Jim,
Is your comment only about Tesla cars?
I understand that most "first generation" EVs (eg Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe) have lost value quickly.
Any owners of a Leaf and Zoe like to comment on depreciation (ie loss of value over the life of the car) and whether it is significantly different to that of an ICE?
thanks Kim

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2235
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by antiscab » Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 08:13

Leaf and imiev have stayed flat at around 15k and 20k respectively for the past few years, even as the average odo readings have crept up

It's a bit early for Zoe, they've only been available to mere mortals since July
Matt
2011 Blade Electron mk6
2007 vectrix - 145'000km
1998 Prius - needs batt
1999 Prius - needs batt

Rusdy
Groupie
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon, 09 Jun 2014, 16:45
Real Name: Rusdy
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by Rusdy » Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 08:36

Hi Kim,
If you don't need to travel long distance (a.k.a. city dweller only), then the imported version of 2nd hand Leaf will be perfect for you. Depreciation is definitely the biggest cost, dwarfing the fuel and maintenance cost. So, minimising depreciation is the key.

Make sure you'll get the Nissan Leaf with new battery chemistry (a.k.a. lizard battery). If you plan to hold this car to its end, it's critical to have the long life battery. None of the Australian sold Leaf (2012 build) have this, and they're sucks.

You definitely need to consider the long distance driving when required. If you need to travel long distance (by renting another ICE), then your saving of petrol will quickly disappear.

If you only need to travel local South West (I presume you live in WA?), then the fast charger network solve this issue (as imported leaf will easily go around South West of WA, except Albany).

Tesla is of course the best solution. But hey, who can afford the depreciation? Can any of Tesla owner comment? i.e. how much do they depreciate to date?

Oops, forgot to add total cost to date for my Leaf. I bought mine when it was 13k km in 2015, and now almost at 70k km. I bought it for 25k (yup, lucky me). From the most expensive:
1. Tyres: close to 800 bucks;
2. uhmm... can't think anything else, that's it for parts.
3. Maintenance (by dealer): I've done twice to date. The first one in 2016, the dealer only did battery and brake checks. Second one in 2017 same one (plus brake flush. Also, I asked them changing internal cabin filter and wiper blades). First one only AUD150. Second one 500 bucks if I recall correctly :roll: (should've change the wiper and internal filter myself)
4. Fuel: Mine is charged during off-peak period at 15cents per kWh. For 15,000km per year with roughly charging 0.17kWH/km, that translates to 400 bucks per year. In reality, half time of the year I don't pay fuel (as I have excess electrons from solar PV and battery storage during 6 months of the year.

In short, I bought it for 25k (capital), and running cost of roughly 1k a year. If I kept my old trustee Corolla (instead of impulse buy the Leaf back then), I wouldn't need to fork out the 25k capital with 2,500AUD running cost a year instead.

Financial lost: yes. Glad I did it? Yes too. ICE simply sucks (both literally and figuratively).
Last edited by Rusdy on Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 09:01, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2393
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by jonescg » Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 08:37

Leaf brand new in 2012 was ~$55,000
Now, 7 years later, they are on the second hand market for ~$22,000 (nobody should pay that much for one, but that's the sticker price).
So just over half the price in 7 years.

Compare to say, a Pulsar which sold for $25,000 in 2012, and is second hand for about $8000.

I know who's losing value faster.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch vice-chair

User avatar
mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: Total Cost of Ownership - ICE and EV

Post by mikedufty » Wed, 05 Dec 2018, 15:36

Leaf has lost $32,000 and Pulsar has lost only $17,000. But the Leaf looks good in percentage terms.
I think the drop from the new price (how many actually paid that much) which reflects to some degree the cost of making them, to the second hand market price is quite big, but from there on the decline is relatively small.

Post Reply