PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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coulomb
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Re: Bricked or not bricked...this is the question....

Post by coulomb »

McMajan wrote:
Tue, 26 Nov 2019, 22:32
So I removed the communication board and I've replace it with an Arduino UNO where I've removed the MCU (doing this you use Arduino as a basic USB to serial converter). So I conneted TX <->TX, RX <-> RX ang GND <->GND. In this way you are NOT ipto-isolated, but you can test if the problem is the communication board. And yes, it WORKED !!!!
That's wonderful to hear; well done!

[ Edit: I'm intrigued to note that the update happened at 12 blocks per second, some 20% faster than it usually happens. I wonder if that means that a normal update is usually slowed down by several retries. I'm also surprised by the crazy erase times, but that doesn't seem to be a real problem. ]

IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTE: I see that you have isolated the AC-in (no wires in the active or neutral positions). This is VERY IMPORTANT! It's my understanding that the digital "ground" is actually at lethal potential with respect to actual earth and your body when AC-in is connected to the mains/grid/utility.

So for anyone else wanting to try this: make sure that AC-in is disconnected, and PV-in as well. Only the battery should be powering the inverter. Even then, I'd use a laptop (not plugged in charging), and I'd prefer to use a wireless mouse when operating the non-isolated laptop. Carefully disconnect the non-isoated USB port as soon as the update is complete.

@McMajan, as a point of interest, how did you sniff the communications? I hope that you release any software that comes from this to the community.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

TYGUYS
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by TYGUYS »

Hi, big fan here,

Was intending to get a pip-5048ms thanks to the great development here however in light of weber and coulombs recent finding about the sine wave generation I'm reconsidering.
It seems the (64v) version is the only one i can find for sale. does any one have any ideas on how to obtain the 1:8 version? was intending to use it with some old lead acid batteries for now.

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Re: Bricked or not bricked...this is the question....

Post by McMajan »

I'm intrigued to note that the update happened at 12 blocks per second, some 20% faster than it usually happens. I wonder if that means that a normal update is usually slowed down by several retries. I'm also surprised by the crazy erase times, but that doesn't seem to be a real problem.
Warning to a little issue. When I flashed the firmware after about 20-30% of blocks I I ran out of the laptop battery :twisted: . After recharging it I triedagain and the reflashing procedure restarts from 20-30% of blocks (surprise for me). So the first step was very fast and then the mean speed decreased until the finish.


I see that you have isolated the AC-in
I do this because the inverter is connected to main breaker. If I put down it, I remove the energy to my home (I've a bypass system using another breaker that I use when inverter is not operative). So to remove current to the inverterr, I've isolated the cables (I don't like to put my hand near 230V when I remove the controller board :lol: ).

@McMajan, as a point of interest, how did you sniff the communications? I hope that you release any software that comes from this to the community.
I used AccessPort for windows (freeware), I've found it in this forum. As alternative you can use a digital oscilloscope but is a bit more complex. Another way is programming an Arduino using a UART port to directly connect PC to Inverter and a secondary port to send data where you want. The first option is the simplest but the software is a bit unstable (I've had some crashes). SURE, if I'll write the software I'll share with you, but before I need a bit of time to understand how the blocks are generated (they are not only part of hex file).

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Re: Bricked or not bricked...this is the question....

Post by coulomb »

McMajan wrote:
Thu, 28 Nov 2019, 00:41
SURE, if I'll write the software I'll share with you, but before I need a bit of time to understand how the blocks are generated (they are not only part of hex file).
Excellent. PM me if you need some info from the bootstrap loader end (permanent part of the firmware that performs the reflashing).
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

I moved a post from @McMajan re a likely hardware problem preventing his inverter-charger from seeing the PV panels here. In my reply, I mention how the red and black wires running to the SCC are not battery connections.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Irene Tulloch »

It's the same inverter as the Axpert inverter most people here have. Most people have the 4048, which is a 4kw/5kva unit. According to the AEVA site that unit has a boost stage of 4kw, and an inverter stage of 5kw. That allows it to handle loads up to 5kva at 80% power factor where the real power is only 4kw. The 5058 replaces the 4kw boost stage with a 5kw boost stage so it can run a real 5kw at unity power factor. This comes with a slight downside, basically slightly lower efficiency and slightly higher quiescent current draw. Otherwise it is almost identical.

I noticed recently that these inverters are now sold (sometimes?) under the MPPSolar brand rather than the Axpert brand, but it is the same beast under the skin. It's also resold by Renesola and Mecer.

[ Edited Coulomb: removed irrelevant, arguably commercial link. ]
Last edited by Irene Tulloch on Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Irene Tulloch wrote:
Tue, 24 Dec 2019, 03:15
Most people have the 4048, which is a 4kw/5kva unit.
Welcome, Irene.

While it's true that there are a lot of PIP-4048 models in service, it's getting hard to purchase these now. Even in countries like South Africa where there was a lot of stock of the PIP-4048 models (many with the heatsink on top, indicating an August 2015 manufacture date or earlier), the number of PIP-5048 models seems roughly equal now to the number of PIP-4048 models in use.

Do you still see mostly PIP-4048 models in your part of the world?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Johanba »

Good Day

I have a mercer 5kva Inverter.
My software version is quite different, however the model number is the same
The version No is U2.01.24

Any advise the update the firmware

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Johanba wrote:
Tue, 24 Dec 2019, 12:41
I have a mercer 5kva Inverter.
There are many models that fit that description.
My software version is quite different, however the model number is the same
The version No is U2.01.24
The "U2" is telling you that this is the firmware version for the second processor, in this case the Solar Charge Controller. Version 01.24 is the latest version for the SCC firmware that I'm aware of, and hasn't changed for several years.

If you press the up button (up button to go up the manual page usually, though that's often counter intuitive) you should have a screen with "U1" and two other pairs of digits. U1 is for the primary (Digital Signal Processor) firmware version. This is the one that is more important, and changes much more often.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

I moved a post by @ochyst about whether firmware version 71.70 for an EASun Isolar SM II 5kW inverter-charger could be modified to reduce the minimum value of the back-to-utility voltage setting from 44 to 40 volts here.

We're trying to keep the PIP-5048MS etc topic to a tolerable size.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

After installing lots of MPPSolar inverters for customers, I have a system for myself.
2015 4048ms with late model main pcb and late model scc pcb mounted on top of main pcb but connected to inductors on the black heatsink. New fans in factory orientation. LF1 73 00e 04 12. 12 x 300w panels at 10 degrees due north in 4 strings. 16 x 400Ah Winston Lifepo4. No permanent grid or generator AC in connection.
I bottom balanced to 3.00v and then charged pack to 54.4 and swapped out any high cells. Bulk 54.8. Float 53.8. I had connected a Chargery BMS16Pro but it does not measure all the cell voltages accurately enough so I disconnected it. Will go without a BMS. I think just check the bottom balance and full cell voltages every now and then. Anyone using these BMS or know how to calibrate the cell voltage displays?
Today with 3kw PV in and 1.5kw AC out, inverter temperature was about 50 degrees C but now with little PV in but AC our still at 1.5kw and fans running slow temperature is 69 degrees C. I will try turning the fans upside down to try and lower the temperature. Is 69 too hot?
Attachments
Before firmware change
Before firmware change
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Actual cell voltages 3.328
Actual cell voltages 3.328
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A23F9399-B8C2-4B87-B15A-F200F61697D3.jpeg (2.28 MiB) Viewed 809 times
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

solamahn wrote:
Wed, 01 Jan 2020, 16:49
After installing lots of MPPSolar inverters for customers, I have a system for myself.
Cool.
Today with 3kw PV in and 1.5kw AC out, inverter temperature was about 50 degrees C but now with little PV in but AC our still at 1.5kw and fans running slow temperature is 69 degrees C. I will try turning the fans upside down to try and lower the temperature. Is 69 too hot?
Yikes. Yes, I think 69°C is too hot.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

I just turned the fans around. Fans are running slow with 350w load and no solar. Even with 1.5kw load, fans were slow. With more than 2kw solar, the fans were fast and temperature was 50. Will see how it goes with fans turned. Would be better if fan speed was controlled by inverter temperature. Temperature was 65 before turning fans. Now 45 but the temperature drop was due to the inverter being turned off and cover removed while I worked on the fans.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

solamahn wrote:
Wed, 01 Jan 2020, 19:56
Even with 1.5kw load, fans were slow.
Yes. For the load portion of the fan speed, the speed is simply scaled to the load, proportioned to maximum load, with 30% minimum. So the fans don't start speeding due to load until 30% x 5000 = 1500 VA.
With more than 2kw solar, the fans were fast ...
Yes. For the solar charging portion of the fan speed, the speed is simply scaled to charge power, as a proportion of 4000 or 3000 W depending on the model (mine are still the 60 A max SCC type, and it sounds like yours is too). So that starts increasing fan speed at 30% x 3000 = 900 W of solar charge power. 2000 W of solar charge power would result in 67% fan speed.
Would be better if fan speed was controlled by inverter temperature. Temperature was 65 before turning fans.
It looks like the extra fan speed due to temperature starts at 70°C for internal temperature, and 60°C for the SCC temperature. Those seem high to me. 72°C internal will trigger 100% fan speed.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

Good now with fans upside down. Even the big black heat sink is getting hot from the hot air being blown upwards. There is no scc pcb attached to it.
Attachments
AD7E45C2-4BF5-4ED0-88E4-AE9A62482D19.jpeg
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

3.74kw from 12 x 300w panels. Fans were running flat out. 60A to battery.
Attachments
C51A32AE-746D-4A9E-9EB4-DC99984DBCEB.jpeg
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by JPdebeerza »

@CoulombGood Evening Coulomb,

I need some help with three 5KVA Inverters I bought locally.

It appears the firmware on them is 52.30, I am having floating charging issues and i'm sure its due to the bug as I read here with the SOC DOD Values not being calculated properly.

If you make any changes to the voltage settings the system become less efficient and only gives me about 25% of capacity. I have 3 x 5KVA Inverters with 24 x 105 Ah Batteries connected to them, each of the inverters with 8 Batteries connected as 48V DC. So there is 2 x 105aH Batteries connected in Parallel and then 4 of these sets in series per inverter.
Image

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

JPdebeerza wrote:
Fri, 03 Jan 2020, 08:15
Good Evening Coulomb,
Welcome to the forum.
It appears the firmware on them is 52.30,
That's quite old firmware. I assume that these are old stock, from around 2013?
I am having floating charging issues and i'm sure its due to the bug as I read here with the SOC DOD Values not being calculated properly.
Are you saying that you are encountering the premature float bugs? Or merely that the SOC value reported by the inverter on the LC Display is inaccurate?
If you make any changes to the voltage settings the system become less efficient and only gives me about 25% of capacity.
How are you measuring the battery capacity?
I have 3 x 5KVA Inverters with 24 x 105 Ah Batteries connected to them, each of the inverters with 8 Batteries connected as 48V DC.
Are these three independent systems? Or paralleled with paralleling kits?

If paralleled, the batteries need to be totally paralleled, i.e. all 6 strings should be paralleled on a pair of bus bars, and all three inverters take battery power from these same bus bars.

[ Edit: bus bar → bus bars ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

I moved a post about MPP Hybrid V2 inverter protocol here.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

swagner2018
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by swagner2018 »

Hello All,

I would like to share two interessting links with you, if this is a douple post please delete it.
I was searching a few 100 pages until I found them :lol:

Both are using a ESP8266 with MAX3232 to convert TTL to RS232 and they are using the DHCP configuration but it can be also changed to fix IP

This is the part I have changed to use a fix IP

Example:
//Connecting to local WiFi
WiFi.mode(WIFI_STA);
WiFi.persistent(false); //our credentialss are hardcoded, so we don't need ESP saving those each boot (will save on flash wear)
WiFi.hostname("UART_Gateway");
IPAddress ip(192, 168, 1, 35);
IPAddress gateway(192, 168, 1, 1);
IPAddress subnet(255, 255, 255, 0);
IPAddress dns(192, 168, 1, 1);
WiFi.config(ip, dns, gateway, subnet);
WiFi.begin(WIFI_SSID, WIFI_PASS);


1. Pylontech Battery Monitoring via Console RJ11, output is done on HTTP Website and jsonOUT
https://github.com/irekzielinski/Pylon ... Monitoring

Some screenshots:
jsonOut.JPG
jsonOut.JPG (14.07 KiB) Viewed 411 times
Power.JPG
Power.JPG (33.04 KiB) Viewed 411 times

2. Change PIP settings via WLAN using HTTP Post requests (CRC is included and need to be installed as library to Arduiono IDE)
https://bitbucket.org/twvtec/esp8266-p ... rc/master/

I have added this line to use the MNCHGC commando and it's easy to add also other commands.
...
(tmpCmd.substring(0,6) == "MUCHGC") || //Setting utility max charging current
(tmpCmd.substring(0,6) == "MNCHGC") || //Setting max charging current Dynamically works only with patched Firmware
(tmpCmd.substring(0,4) == "POPM") || //Setting output mode (For 4000/5000)

...

To test the command just download curl and send the following command (need to be repeated within 10s otherwise it change to 0... read the documentation about this command)

Some screenshots:
curl_cmd.JPG
curl_cmd.JPG (10.39 KiB) Viewed 411 times
curl.JPG
curl.JPG (28.85 KiB) Viewed 411 times

I am also using tasmota software on a ESP8266 https://github.com/arendst/Tasmota/wiki to switch 3 Relais. 1x Standby, 1x AC_IN contactor, 1x AC_OUT contactor

To manage and controll them I am using IOBroker https://www.iobroker.net/ with Blockly scripts and Node-Red.
I am using this SmartMeter https://shop.enerserve.eu/smartpi/262/smartpi-2.0

I know it would be possible to use a NodeMCU which can have up to 3x Serial Ports and combine the projects into one but .... but this will take a few months to years for me to learn everything :D


My Project.
- Inverter SMA with 5.2 kWp (ModBus)
- Inverter Solaredge with 6.5 kWp (ModBus)
- Inverter Steca PLI 5048 with patched firmware from this Forum (ESP8266)
- 1x Pylontech UB2000 Plus (when everything works as expected addition batteries will be added) (ESP8266)
- Smart Meter SmartPi2 (MQTT)
- 3x D1 Mini Pro (ESP8266) for Pylontech (Web Parser), Steca (HTTP), Relais (MQTT)
- Raspberry Pi 4 (IOBroker)

Before I sell the electricity the battery get dynamically charged (1-25A) and there is a automatically switch between Grid and Battery for my 24h consumer like fridge, freezer, Housing Ventilation and Pumps.
My_Project.JPG
My_Project.JPG (40.91 KiB) Viewed 411 times
Per Year I have to
Import electricity : 2600 kWh
export electricity : 7000 kWh
Home consumtion : 1600 kWh
With the batterie the Import should be around 1000 kWh per year and the ~6000 kWh should be used in the near future for a e-car ;-)

Regards,

Stefan

Thanks to all who helped with opensource software and patched firmware

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Mantas »

Hi Guys,

So it's been about two months to the day that my replacement axpert 5kva was installed but now I'm very worried. The installer set the battery type to flooded instead of AGM and I'm sure my batteries are poked! Shame on me for not checking this after installation. 4 x 200ah deep cycle batteries faulty after only about 2 years of operation. :( Could that have killed my batteries or have I just been cycling them too heavily? Considering that I only cycle them deeply during load shedding I don't think it was me :|

Now, I need some advice if you don't mind giving it.

Here is my setup:
2 x Axpert 5kva in parallel (one is the older 4kw and the new one is a 5kw)
Both are flashed to LC1_72.70c as recommended by weber. (I love that I can now control the left and right of the display independently :D )
I pretty much use my batteries just in standby mode so I have maximum backup time during our infamous load shedding.

I have my inverters set to:
Charger Source Priority: Solar First
Output Source Priority: Solar
Max AC charging current: I change this depending on the weather. If we have clear sunny weather I reduce this to 10a. If we have lots of rain and cloud cover I up it to 20a.

Here is where I need help. What are the best values for Back to grid voltage, back to discharge voltage, bulk charging (C.V. voltage), Float Charging voltage, and most importantly battery cut-off voltage? Back to grid and back to discharge don't really matter all that much since I don't run in SBU mode. I'd still like them set properly in case I do change to SBU.

Load shedding lasts for 4 hours, during which time I heavily reduce my load to limit it to below about 800w or less.

Also, what would be the most cost-effective battery to replace it with? I'm kind of thinking that I'll just go with the 200ah AGM again? I can also go with Pylon Tech 2.3kWh Lithium batteries but they are quite a lot more expensive. Not sure how they will benefit me over the AGM? Also, the Lithium ones require an additional monitoring unit and new cables.

Would keeping my batteries in float 90% of the time reduce their lifetime more vs running in SBU?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

Mantas wrote:
Sun, 12 Jan 2020, 20:11
The installer set the battery type to flooded instead of AGM and I'm sure my batteries are poked!
The maximum charge voltage for battery type FLD is effectively 58.4 V; for AGM battery type, it's 56.4 V.

So these correspond to 14.6 V per 12 V module (flooded), and 14.1 V per 12 V module (AGM). You would have to check your battery specifications to see if 14.6 V is too much for them. [ Edit: Since 14.6 V is higher than the 25°C gassing voltage of 14.4 V, it's possible that the high charge voltage has dried out the cells. ]

I'm no lead acid expert, so I can't comment further.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

I have tempered my earlier conclusion that the 64 V variants of these inverters are an abomination. See this post in a different thread.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

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Real Name: Julian Leach
Location: PNG

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

I don’t think there is any exact battery voltage settings for agm’s with pips. Depends on number of panels, number and size of batteries, temperature and usage. I tend to always set bulk at 58.4, float 54 - 56, LVD 46. That’s using non Australian firmware without kettle komp. If you have utility available, connect to utility at 48, disconnect at 53 with 10A utility charge or even 2A. If using a generator, adjust the settings so generator run time is not too short or too long. Setting 12,13 and charge current. Again 48,53 and 10A have worked for me. With Lithium 50,53 and 10A has worked good for pip settings and 10kw generator with 2 wire remote start/stop.
Solamahn PNG

rexx
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by rexx »

Hi help needed , cant load up 72 70c firmware , cant find the serial interface . To load up to pip 4048 ms

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