PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 09:12I'm not aware of any real "logs"; when "fault recording" is enabled
Thanks, he definitely used Watchpower, how I understood it, Watchpower generates a binary log file that he sends to MPP for analysis.

On Wednesday something took out the power for a second and caused the batteries protection circuits to kick in (maybe six out of the eight batteries), or the batteries protection circuits kicked in and took out the power for a second, either way I was running the entire house on two batteries for maybe a day.

When I figured out I was chewing though battery I now think I turned off the only two working batteries on Thursday night (the Aeon isolator switches are confusing, does ON signify ISOLATION ON, or POWER ON), when all batteries were turned off there was definitely a 1 second outage. So the inverters cant do a quick switchover to grid if the battery power is instantaneously removed.

Also the installer reintroducing battery power to the inverters caused a complete power outage, power went off and was off until he fixed the situation (not sure exactly what he did, he did flick the power switches on the inverters).

I have a niggling suspicion that the inverters have some sort of limitation in bypass mode, maybe in combination with paralleling, two of the 1 second outages (Friday & Saturday) were with the batteries isolated, I mean you would think that bypass should be rock solid unless there is a grid power outage.

FOUND IT: https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/pip-hsms-pf1-series/

"Important note about Batteryless Operation

When configuring system in parallel using multiple units, please be sure that a battery MUST be used or otherwise it may cause system to work incorrectly, or possibly lead to damage. Due to the inconsistent nature of PV power, batteryless mode can only work normally under single-unit setup"
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

rthorntn wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 10:12 he definitely used Watchpower, how I understood it, Watchpower generates a binary log file that he sends to MPP for analysis.
Ah. Watchpower itself (I don't use it) is probably saving measurements it receives regularly with ordinary commands. I would imagine that you should be able to use Watchpower to view that log.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 10:24
rthorntn wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 10:12 he definitely used Watchpower, how I understood it, Watchpower generates a binary log file that he sends to MPP for analysis.
Ah. Watchpower itself (I don't use it) is probably saving measurements it receives regularly with ordinary commands. I would imagine that you should be able to use Watchpower to view that log.
I don't use Watchpower, so Watchpower wouldn't have had any historical data, not sure where it's fetching the data from, maybe some memory location the CLI has no command for...or maybe the file is useless unless you have Watchpower running during the issues.

I think you and Weber are the public authority on these inverters.

No batteryless operation while paralleled explains a lot, that's an interesting limitation, why does it exist?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

In my case:

"may cause system to work incorrectly"

Translates to:

"Works perfectly for around 24 hours and then causes a 1 second outage"
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

In layman's terms what do the parallel board, current sharing and communication cables do?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

rthorntn wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 12:33 In layman's terms what do the parallel board, current sharing and communication cables do?
The parallel board is easy: it's essentially a CAN port with a non-standard connector (though there isn't a standard connector for CAN bus). [ Edit: this is used to send data from slaves to the master, and to argue over who will be master today. A few commands starting with 'M' and taking a Machine number (digit 0-8, 0 being the master) send values over this CAN bus. ]

The current sharing is more of a mystery to me. One of the ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) ports is used to measure output share current. That means that one pin on the DSP is dedicated to this measurement. I've never traced the schematic of a control board, so I don't know where it goes. I don't see any pins on CN9-CN11 (the three 16-way connectors that connect the control board to the main board).

The communications port is an isolated RS-232 port, though the USB port connects to the serial data stream as well. Note that even though USB is very high speed serial, the data are still transferred via the same pins to the DSP, usually at 2400 bps. The one exception is flash updating, which takes place at 9600 bps. This port is used only for sending commands and receiving their responses, except when flash updating, when another undocumented protocol takes over.

Some models have a removable display. These models have, in addition to the above, an RS-485, and in some cases also a second CAN port, intended only for connection to various battery BMSs. RS-485 is a slightly different kind of serial port, where two wires are used for sending, and the same two wires are used for receiving. Even though Pylontech batteries communicate via either RS-485 or CAN, only RS-485 is used for these batteries. So the CAN port (using two previously unused pins on the BMS RJ-45 connector) seems to be reserved for those BMSs that only communicate over CAN bus. I get the impression that early models with the removable display don't have the CAN bus hardware, so it might sometime be necessary to update the remote display hardware in order to talk to certain battery BMSs.
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160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

coulomb wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 14:45 send data from slaves to the master
Thanks, so in simple terms is this messages like a slave telling the master, my load is a certain amount of amps?
coulomb wrote: Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 14:45 The current sharing is more of a mystery to me
So is this the master keeps track of all the slaves loads and can ask a slave to restrict their current, so that the others equalise their current using the current sharing cable?

If the total house load was 15A and you had 3 inverters, maybe:

Inverter 1 = 3A [Master]
Inverter 2 = 9A
Inverter 3 = 3A

Inverter 2 & 3 tells Inverter 1 their load and so inverter 1 (who knows all inverter loads as well as the number of inverters) instructs inverter 2 to restrict its current to 5A, rinse and repeat?

I mean my AC uses around 4.0KW, I hope that load can be balanced across my two inverters.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

rthorntn wrote: Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 06:15 in simple terms is this messages like a slave telling the master, my load is a certain amount of amps?
Yes, exactly. They also exchange settings, so they can be harmonised where needed (charge related settings excepted).
So is this the master keeps track of all the slaves loads and can ask a slave to restrict their current, so that the others equalise their current using the current sharing cable?
I think so. It's not clear to me yet whether it's active like that ("slave 2: target 5 amps"), or whether it's relying on the wiring to share properly, and the master just checks that it's close enough, and generates a fault code if not.
I mean my AC uses around 4.0KW, I hope that load can be balanced across my two inverters.
They seem to balance to within 50 W or so. So low loads don't share all that well, but they don't matter. A 4 kW load should share to within a few percent.

I hope your air conditioner has an inverter built in, so it's soft start. My 3 kW unit is one of the last that has Direct On Line (DOL) start, and the starting current is some 80 A. They had to check that the wiring was up to that surge. No way I can run that beast on two inverters, sadly.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

coulomb wrote: Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 07:56 I hope your air conditioner has an inverter built in, so it's soft start. My 3 kW unit is one of the last that has Direct On Line (DOL) start, and the starting current is some 80 A. They had to check that the wiring was up to that surge. No way I can run that beast on two inverters, sadly.
Thanks!

Wow, inductive load of 80A at 220V, 18KW for the first few seconds kind of thing?

My AC is a split Daikin FTXM95PVMA, like 3 years old, it better be soft start lol!
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by paulvk »

rthorntn wrote: Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 08:35
Wow, inductive load of 80A at 220V, 18KW for the first few seconds kind of thing?

My AC is a split Daikin FTXM95PVMA, like 3 years old, it better be soft start lol!
I do not think it is reading the specs.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

rthorntn wrote: Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 08:35 Wow, inductive load of 80A at 220V, 18KW for the first few seconds kind of thing?
Well, 18 kVA at a lowish power factor, for less than a second. But the DC-AC converter still has to cop all that current, even if the DC-DC converter does "only" a quarter of that (≈4.5 kW). Maybe two 5 kVA inverters could actually do it, but I'm just not game. At least two relay contacts, which I suspect are in a bad way already, would have to take that massive overload too. Multiple times per hour. 😱
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
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1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by rthorntn »

coulomb wrote: Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 18:15
rthorntn wrote: Mon, 21 Sep 2020, 08:35 Wow, inductive load of 80A at 220V, 18KW for the first few seconds kind of thing?
Well, 18 kVA at a lowish power factor, for less than a second. But the DC-AC converter still has to cop all that current, even if the DC-DC converter does "only" a quarter of that (≈4.5 kW). Maybe two 5 kVA inverters could actually do it, but I'm just not game. At least two relay contacts, which I suspect are in a bad way already, would have to take that massive overload too. Multiple times per hour. 😱
Thanks.

My entire house is running off the batteries, I'm slightly concerned now, the aircon is by far the most power hungry device in the house.

I found a US website that has an aftermarket soft starter, have you heard of those?

I've ordered another inverter to add to the cluster, mainly because I want some more panels and the new panels will be 375W, my other two strings are 250W are 275W panels.

I tested it at lunchtime today, house running off battery, my base load was about 350W, I turned the aircon on, set to cool, ICC shows the load increase to 1850W fairly gradually over 30 seconds, I could feel cool air coming out then, I left it on for 5 minutes, it never went above 1850W. In the past I have seen it use more like 3500W.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by glococo »

Hi Coulomb

I am designing a TUI Text User Interface for the 5048GK that I own. I followed the pdf with all the commands and help me a lot. I got almost all the information I was needing
However I didn't found the accumulated values that are available in the display. Do you know if that information is available though a Q command ?

Thanks
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by weber »

glococo wrote: Tue, 29 Sep 2020, 04:43 ... 5048GK ... I didn't found the accumulated values that are available in the display. Do you know if that information is available though a Q command ?
Hi @glococo, I moved your post from the MS topic to this GE/GK/MG topic. I assume the GK is the same as the MK in that regard, in which case the answer is sadly "No. There is no such command". See the first link here: https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.ph ... 5#commands.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

weber wrote: Tue, 29 Sep 2020, 06:20 in which case the answer is sadly "No. There is no such command".
Actually, it turns out the lack of these commands really was an oversight. QED etc appeared some time after removable display firmware version 02.00, and are available in 02.40 onwards, and possibly before 02.40. These display firmwares are available for downloading, see the index for the PIP-MK topic. I believe that the PIP-GK and PIP-MK share the same removable display firmware.

I don't know what main firmware is required to correctly inter-operate with 02.40 or 02.49 removable display firmware. PIP-GK firmware is for whatever reason much harder to obtain.

[ Edit: "go" → "correctly interoperate" ]
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by glococo »

Right, I just tried and none of QE__ QL__ commands worked. sad.
These are my actual firmwares

Do you have a contact or an email for the Voltronic support ?

My local reseller could not get any update. So I try to contact the head whitebrand in Spain, no one reply.
Same behavior as voltronicpower and mpptsolar. Son of ....
As a company they behave so badly. None reply anything. No support, no reply at all.
weber wrote: Tue, 29 Sep 2020, 06:20
glococo wrote: Tue, 29 Sep 2020, 04:43 ... 5048GK ... I didn't found the accumulated values that are available in the display. Do you know if that information is available though a Q command ?
Hi @glococo, I moved your post from the MS topic to this GE/GK/MG topic. I assume the GK is the same as the MK in that regard, in which case the answer is sadly "No. There is no such command". See the first link here: https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.ph ... 5#commands.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by coulomb »

glococo wrote: Wed, 30 Sep 2020, 16:27 Right, I just tried and none of QE__ QL__ commands worked. sad.
Yes, you have removable display (they call it remote panel, but that could be confused with a much older product that has its own firmware) firmware version 02.00, which definitely don't have the commands.
Do you have a contact or an email for the Voltronic support ?
No. I bought my inverters from MPPSolar. If you haven't bought from them, they don't seem to want to know you.
As a company they behave so badly. None reply anything. No support, no reply at all.
I agree that it's really poor. That's why we are trying to help each other out here, but there are so many models, firmware versions, and so on. It seems to be the price to pay, so to speak, for cheap hardware (not having to pay so much up front).
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by esorven »

Hello,
PLease, can i have help or clues with the problems (bad settings ?) i have with my solar installation (newbie, first post here, shy...), composed of :

Off site, PIP 5048 gk (mpp solar, cpu 20.58), 1*6 panels 280W (voc 36.6*6=220V > 150v, noct), 4 flooded batteries 110ah(8 months old).

Settings:1-SBU, 2-20A 5-Flooded 16-Only Solar, no equalization made and everything else default.

Problems: Sometimes Low battery in the morning (fault code 4, inverter shutdown), batteries not charging when grey sky (stuck at 120v, not charging), some time fan working continuously when hot day (>30°c, one day i've got error 1: Fan is locked when inverter is off.).
=> I read about float bug (is there a way to minimize this without patch firmware that doesn't exist for this model ?), firmware update to resolve ?(20.59 can be downloaded: is it for my inverter ?, can i go to 40.x ?), or more simply not enough ah or panels: do i need to extend number of panels (i'm thinking of adding 2 panels when i will have the budget) ? Faulty inverter or loose connections (i have checked them, need double check?)? replace inverter and/or charger: best budget / reliable solution ?

=>This installation is offsite: water pump(700W, no leak) is used for orchard (10mn/day) and mobil home(water from pump, fridge- max 60w-, leds for lights :10w*2hours, ltemodem+portable pc : about 20w for 2 hours).

Other question: I have done a diy powerwall of approximatively 4.7kw (14s40p of refurbished 18650's, the battery will be protected with a chargery bms16t). This inverter/charger/mppt cannot communicate with the bms (only with pylontech bms): i'm thinking of connecting this battery to the gk : is there something important to be aware ? which settings i have to put inside charger (i think of using it between min 14*3.4v - and max 14*4.1v,bulk=float and of course no equalization) ? i hope the inverter is accurate after measuring deviations/corrections so it is managing and the bms don't have to activate security by disconnecting battery when charging or discharging before it ? do you know if there Is a way to simulate pylontech protocol by interfacing a raspberry or other between gk and a "smart" bms ?

Sorry, a lot of questions but i am a little bit puzzled and i tend to ask myself a lot. By the way, i have another little solar installation in a cabane for ptz security camera 24/24 + lte modem + router, all these connected to a buck boost converter + separate inverter for ac without problem with 24v (90ah), 2 panels (2*115W) and victron mppt that gives me entire satisfaction(1 year working without interruption).

Thank you.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by data »

@glococo
See https://powerforum.co.za/files/file/53- ... -firmware/ for V2.49 remote display firmware
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by data »

esorven wrote: Thu, 01 Oct 2020, 04:31 ... some time fan working continuously ...
I had the same issue with my GK. This is fixed in the firmware update I've uploaded a couple of posts before.
edit: Please check your firmware first. Mine started with 4x.xx
Last edited by data on Fri, 02 Oct 2020, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by esorven »

data wrote: Fri, 02 Oct 2020, 14:18
esorven wrote: Thu, 01 Oct 2020, 04:31 ... some time fan working continuously ...
I had the same issue with my GK. This is fixed in the firmware update I've uploaded a couple of posts before.
Thank you for the info.
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by data »

@esorven
When did you buy your 5048GK?
What firmware versions do you have?
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by glococo »

data wrote: Fri, 02 Oct 2020, 14:14 @glococo
See https://powerforum.co.za/files/file/53- ... -firmware/ for V2.49 remote display firmware
Hi @data, thanks for your suggestion, however my Main CPU is 20.58 :| (see attach)
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by data »

Too bad. So the question is, if v20.xx indicates some different hardware or if this is just an older version which can be upgraded to 4x.xx
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Re: PIP-5048GE, PIP-5048GK and PIP-5048MG inverters (with unsafe SCC)

Post by esorven »

data wrote: Fri, 02 Oct 2020, 18:11 @esorven
When did you buy your 5048GK?
What firmware versions do you have?
I bought it décembre 2018. If firmware is correlated to Main cpu info, watchpower shows: 20.58 (bluetooth 0.21). Interested to know if i Can update to 4x.xx like you without breaking (or with a solution to reverse flash). Thanks.
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