what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

How do you store and manage your electricity?
Post Reply
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Adverse Effects »

i hope to soon be upgrading my mobility scooters (2 of them) with Lithem and getting away from the lead gels that sag after the first 1Km or so

this will be separate and permanently affixed to the battery pack from the charging circuit.

is this a good idea and dose this look like cheap crap that will kill the 1K worth of cells i am about to buy?

Active Equalizer Balancer Energy Transfer Board
If you don't have time to do it right,
When will you have time to do it over

Help those who help themselves first
antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2698
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by antiscab »

That looks cool.

Might be worth testing with second hand cells? More benefit on cells that have more variation to start with.

Though I do worry that if it's always balancing on voltage, higher resistance but higher capacity cells get charged at the expense of lower resistance lower capacity cells.

I have seen such a situation with leaf modules and thundersky cells
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by francisco.shi »

My BMS does shift energy from the stronger cells to the weaker cells. So the principle should work. The board has inductors so it has the hardware. So i guess you just have to test it to see if it is good.
It is fun to see the lower voltage cells charging and the higher voltage cells discharging with no input power while balancing.
If it is always balancing it should allow you to get the most out of the battery.
I don't think it will be a problem with the resistance unless you are always running current thru the cells and they are very far out.
As the current thru the battery drops it will level the voltage to the true value. Also you should be able to turn off the balancing so you could do a top or bottom balance.
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Adverse Effects »

If you don't have time to do it right,
When will you have time to do it over

Help those who help themselves first
User avatar
brendon_m
Senior Member
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by brendon_m »

So the consensus is they have all the parts and should work, and first tests say they're legit but more testing to be done.
I might have to get some for the crappy and consistently out of balance imiev cells I have and see how they go
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Adverse Effects »

well i got 2 of the 8S boards and here is the outcome

board 1 :- useless 1 of the channels dose not seem to work

board 2 :- if that is what they call balancing well shit dont call me i'll never call you

cells i used

Samsung SDI 63AH CELL
Nominal Cell Voltage,3.7V
Capacity 63AH
Erergy WH 233
Cell weight, 1.8KG
Cell dimensions, 175mm, 145mm, 25mm
C rating 1.5C continuous
5C burst current
Stud Size M8

Configuration was 8S 2P 63AH cells

2020-08-03 noon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2020-08-11 noon
4.02 . . . . 3.94 . . . . 3.94 . . . . 3.90 . . . . 3.89
3.72 . . . . 3.85 . . . . 3.85 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.87
4.04 . . . . 3.88 . . . . 3.88 . . . . 3.88 . . . . 3.86
3.71 . . . . 3.81 . . . . 3.82 . . . . 3.82 . . . . 3.83
3.73 . . . . 3.83 . . . . 3.83 . . . . 3.84 . . . . 3.82
3.71 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.88
4.03 . . . . 3.93 . . . . 3.92 . . . . 3.91 . . . . 3.92
4.04 . . . . 3.96 . . . . 3.95 . . . . 3.95 . . . . 3.93
If you don't have time to do it right,
When will you have time to do it over

Help those who help themselves first
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by francisco.shi »

The boards must be faulty.
I have been using my active balancer and the cells are within 8mv of each other. I have set it to stop balancing once the difference is less than 10mv. The maximum difference I have ever seen is 20mv.
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Adverse Effects »

francisco.shi wrote: Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 19:49 I have set it to stop balancing once the difference is less than 10mv.
you must have different units then i have because you carnt set anything on my ones there ment to be just plug and play
If you don't have time to do it right,
When will you have time to do it over

Help those who help themselves first
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by francisco.shi »

I made my own.
User avatar
4Springs
Site Admin
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu, 23 Dec 2010, 01:14
Real Name: Christopher Walkden
Location: Selbourne, TAS

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by 4Springs »

Adverse Effects wrote: Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 12:40 Samsung SDI 63AH CELL
Nominal Cell Voltage,3.7V
Capacity 63AH
Erergy WH 233
Cell weight, 1.8KG
Cell dimensions, 175mm, 145mm, 25mm
C rating 1.5C continuous
5C burst current
Stud Size M8

Configuration was 8S 2P 63AH cells

2020-08-03 noon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2020-08-11 noon
4.02 . . . . 3.94 . . . . 3.94 . . . . 3.90 . . . . 3.89
3.72 . . . . 3.85 . . . . 3.85 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.87
4.04 . . . . 3.88 . . . . 3.88 . . . . 3.88 . . . . 3.86
3.71 . . . . 3.81 . . . . 3.82 . . . . 3.82 . . . . 3.83
3.73 . . . . 3.83 . . . . 3.83 . . . . 3.84 . . . . 3.82
3.71 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.87 . . . . 3.88
4.03 . . . . 3.93 . . . . 3.92 . . . . 3.91 . . . . 3.92
4.04 . . . . 3.96 . . . . 3.95 . . . . 3.95 . . . . 3.93
I wouldn't give up on it just yet. The 4.02 V cell has dropped to 3.89 V over 8 days. This is a significant drop, representing a large percentage of the state of charge. Perhaps 10 - 20% of the SOC, and if I'm reading your specs right, the cells are configured 2 in parallel = 466 WH. 20% of this is 93 WH. Discharging over 8 days is about 0.5 Watts, or 130 mA. This rate corresponds with what they claim, it should not be going any faster and still has a ways to go.
Your 'final' voltages are all within 0.13 V of each other. This would be ok for LFP, but I think your Samsung cells are NMC? Not very good for NMC. Their description is a bit difficult to understand, but I think they are claiming that they should balance to within 0.03 V. They might need a few charge/discharge cycles to come to their final resting voltages. It would take a few more days though at their discharge rate.
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Adverse Effects »

4Springs wrote: Wed, 12 Aug 2020, 05:35
I wouldn't give up on it just yet.
they have a light on each channel so it is on when balancing the channel and off when it has finished
all the lights had been off for a few hours so it wasnt going to get any better than it was
if I'm reading your specs right, the cells are configured 2 in parallel = 466 WH.
yes 8 sets of 2 in parallel
(this is the new long range battery pack for the mobility trike i am building as my sight has failed to the point i can not drive safely any more)
P_20200813_113415_p.jpg
P_20200813_113415_p.jpg (268.26 KiB) Viewed 743 times
Your 'final' voltages are all within 0.13 V of each other. This would be ok for LFP, but I think your Samsung cells are NMC? Not very good for NMC. Their description is a bit difficult to understand, but I think they are claiming that they should balance to within 0.03 V.
you are correct and i wouldn't be happy with anything over 0.05V+/- so it could only manage ~3 times the deviation

They might need a few charge/discharge cycles to come to their final resting voltages. It would take a few more days though at their discharge rate.
the units are a stand alone system and do not rely on any external input of any description so they are a fail
If you don't have time to do it right,
When will you have time to do it over

Help those who help themselves first
BaronVonChickenPants
Groupie
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun, 03 May 2009, 16:11
Real Name: Jordan
Location: South Coast, NSW
Contact:

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by BaronVonChickenPants »

These balancers are very, VERY slow to balance, however they are a fraction of the price of other units. If you cells are naturally close without balancing and you only dealing with small current charge/discharge, and you're not going too deep on the discharge, they will be only just ok. EG: I use one on my 6S LTO auxiliary battery in the car.

Most balancer max current ratings are for >1V difference, you are never going to actually see 1.2A balancing with this unit.

We have used the QNBBM common bus style and the JK 24S 2A and 5A chargepump style with good success.

The QNBBM are very effective and quick at balancing, the do give off a high frequency noise though, this can be easily blocked with 3mm ply/mdf, EVA foam, etc. As best as I can figure they operate from a common AC bus which is kind of an average of the cell voltage, the cells either feed into or draw from the AC bus until they are all balanced. All cells balance simultaneously.

The JK 24S charge pump style are slow but not as slow as the unit listed in the OP, they are programmable via Bluetooth, they transfer the excess charge from the highest cell into a storage capacitor, then dump the capacitor into the lowest cell. These really suffer if you are trying to get maximum voltage into a pack at high current as they can not keep up when the first and last cells start to run away.

I think the QNBBM units would be your best bet.

We have Australian stock of the JK-2A24S, JK-5A24S and 4S, 5S and 6S QNBBM balancers.
User avatar
Cowardlyduck
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed, 15 Apr 2015, 23:02
Location: ACT

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Cowardlyduck »

I have some small 6S board I'd be happy to sell cheap if anyone's interested:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=94788
Image
User avatar
Adverse Effects
Senior Member
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sat, 01 Jan 2011, 03:30
Real Name: Adverse Effects
Location: Brisbane

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by Adverse Effects »

i ended up just getting one of these
Chargery BMS8T 4.0 2S - 8S Lipo lifepo4 LTO Li-ion Battery Protection Board 300A it dose all the battery control and management and you can configer it to balance down to 0.001Vdc (not that you would i have set it to 0.01) yes it was slow to balance but it got the pack in line in 5 days

if you want to see some pics of it just ask
If you don't have time to do it right,
When will you have time to do it over

Help those who help themselves first
T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by T1 Terry »

We use these https://www.amazon.com.au/Battery-Balan ... 2617&psc=1
No idea why the link came out so long but there ya go :lol:
The specs claim these units can move up to 10 amps cell to cell, but I've never measured much more than 5 amps. To get a 10 amp shift there would need to be a big imbalance I think. Next battery I build I'll put one of these units on and connect a single cell 4.0 amp 3.7v charger to just one cell and set the Junsi Cell Log 8S up to record a 30 sec interval log so we can see just how well or not they perform.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
francisco.shi
Senior Member
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by francisco.shi »

It is a bit big. You would need 4 units to do a 14S lithium pack which would be almost the same volume as a cell.
T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: what is peoples thoughts on Active Equalizer Balancer Boards?

Post by T1 Terry »

francisco.shi wrote: Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 18:09 It is a bit big. You would need 4 units to do a 14S lithium pack which would be almost the same volume as a cell.
Not exactly sure how you would do a 14 cell in series pack, 16 in series required 5 units, one for each 4 cell group and one to balance the 4 x 4 cell groups.
If you balance in 2 series cell groups, the first balancer would be across cell 1 & 2, cell 3 & 4, cell 5 & 6, cell 7 & 8. The second balancer would be across cell 7 & 8, cell 9 & 10, cell 11 & 12, cell 13 & 14. The overlap on cell 7 & 8 is to inter-link between the two groups of 4 cells and cell 7 & 8 would be the control.. Then only 2 balance units would be required.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn
Post Reply