Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by reecho »

jonescg wrote: Sun, 31 May 2020, 18:52 @reecho ?
Umm. no idea. Larry has one up the hill but not sure what it can do...
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho »

I was able to connect an i909 to our imiev and reset HVDC fault codes. This was sufficient for the charger repair, and also replacement of the pre-charge resistor due to a botched charger repair.

I think some of the menu items resulted in a comms error, but I just assumed we didn't have that particular module in our car to talk to (i.e. four wheel steering just isn't on the CAN Bus).

I could not however reset an air bag fault code (which arose more recently when the 12V battery dropped a cell) with the i909.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

mark_hetho wrote: Tue, 02 Jun 2020, 11:03
I could not however reset an air bag fault code (which arose more recently when the 12V battery dropped a cell) with the i909.
Thanks for posting.
Yes that is exactly what I wish to do and can't because the i909 does not connect to this section of the car. Sad :(
Mitsi can reset it no problem but if I continue with either my charger project or later on with a battery upgrade, that flag will set every time I disconnect the auxiliary battery.
And there are other areas with a connection fault, I wonder if the fault is a physical one in the car or a software fault in the i909? I will prospect this further when I have time with another 2010 and 2012 model iMiEV.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho »

For reference I have a 2010 imiev. I read at some stage and was able to reset or clear (or the car cleared it automatically):
- P0A0A Inter lock SW
- P1A10 OBC power supply circuit low
- P1A15 High voltage circuit (1)
- P0A09 DCDC converter fail (1)
- P1A14 Quick CGH. contactor circuit low

I remember it seemed like these codes didn't clear at first when I thought I'd asked for it. I think the user interface of the i909 was a little confusing. Also some of the units may only respond with the car on (even if it won't go ready).

I don't recall the trouble code for when the airbag warning light was on, but it just wouldn't clear.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

nuggetgalore wrote: Sun, 31 May 2020, 10:06
martinwinlow wrote: Wed, 27 May 2020, 21:33 On a side note and as the question has come up in this thread, using the MUT3, it is possible to re-program the IDs of the CMU (cell module unit) BMS PCBs using: he correct BMS boards and fit them ~2weeks time). I hope this of use/interest to anyone in the future.
An other side note: I bought an iCarsoft i909 MUT3 clone.


I can connect and read the following items :
ETACS
LIN
EV-ECU
BMU
Keyless op
MCU
CMU (all 12 units)

All other items throw up the error shown on the picture on the right.
Disconnecting the auxiliary battery brings on the airbag warning light (Mitsubishi at the last recall did reset that same warning light once before). I was hoping to be able to reset this with the i909 but no such luck.
Note that I can connect to the (EV-) ECU but the fault says it cannot connect to vehicle ECU.
I am wondering if anybody else using the i909 has similar problems.
The next question is who in the EV family has a MUT3 or clone that can not only reset faults but also adjust parameters? That would most likely be required if the traction battery is fitted with bigger cells.
I was able to test the i909 on a 2012 model iMiEV.
The same items as on mine bring up the error described above, so it seems the i909 just has gaps in it's software. I still fails to connect to the computer, I was advised to update it but doubt it will fix it but will seek advise from AUscanners.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by robertdouville »

There was a questioning about the bussbar, their capacity if we increased the batterypack, as the current which is what makes them heat depends on the voltage and the load and that these would not change, that will not be a problem in my opinion .
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

robertdouville wrote: Sun, 14 Jun 2020, 19:32 There was a questioning about the bussbar, their capacity if we increased the batterypack, as the current which is what makes them heat depends on the voltage and the load and that these would not change, that will not be a problem in my opinion .
What is this question about?
Are you referring to the poor 4mm tapped hole issue and Chris's comment to restrict the current to 20 A?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

Well some good news from Graeme - the 93 Ah iMiEV is charging OK but is in bad need of some balancing. It might take 6 days, but should be good for 200 km!
I'll wait for him to report back :)
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

Good to hear. Once it's had a week of real world testing it will be a proven mod. That will take a lot of the gambling out for others.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

[/quote]
jonescg wrote: Tue, 23 Jun 2020, 15:56 Well some good news from Graeme - the 93 Ah iMiEV is charging OK but is in bad need of some balancing. It might take 6 days, but should be good for 200 km!
I'll wait for him to report back :)
Ah yes,good news.

What is the balancing about,are the cells unequal or is the BMS/ coulomb counter struggling with the more than 50 or 60 Ahs?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

They ship the cells at a low state of charge, and some are lower than others. So before building a battery it's probably worth making sure they're all fully balanced ahead of assembly.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Sandrosan »

Very good news! I am happy for him.
From experience I had, yes all the cells must be charged at the same level (I would made a 88 cells in parallel supplied at 4.000V and leave them for days before install them)

Because the balance bleed resistors in the CMU boards draw 100mA only when they are switched on. That is a so small current for cells rated 93Ah!
Anyway very good to know the car acceptes such larger cells.
I hope to see some photos and to know the new behavoiur of the car.
Do these 93Ah cells have the same mechanical size of the LEV50? Or do they need some adjustment?
Again bravo, by the way!
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by stealthhack »

Where can we see the updates on this project from Graeme?
Many i-miev, Peugeot Ion, and Citroen C-Zero out there waiting for 93Ah Samsung cells.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

@suziauto does pop his head in from time to time. Hopefully he spots this thread.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by suziauto »

Hi Everyone,

I purposely don't say much whilst I am still working on the project as I get so many messages and I prefer to announce the results when finished. Anyways, we have installed the cells and removed them a few times. The first install included the modifications to the cell boxes, the design and fabrication of BMS connection tags ( now have 500 in stock ) . The first install was the cells as they arrived with 30% SOC, the logic was the cars BMU would charge and balance these cells. What happened was some cells were too low and the error state prevented charging. Out they came and we have 10 small single cell chargers so we charged all 88. Upon installing we had some cells too high prompting another error code and no charging. So using the scan tool we identified the 2 overcharged cells and got the pack apart and discharged those 2 cells. This time we had charging, 30% on the fuel gauge and 56Km on range guess o meter. A few driving cycles but the best we can achieve is 56 km and 30%. The issue being the %SOC difference between the low and the high cells. Effectively so wide a gap that the BMU could not manage the balancing. So today the cells are all coming out and we will assemble them as 1 large 4v cell to self-balance with a small charger on the end of the string to keep some input going in (4v 8200Ah battery lol ). Some might say a no brainer and after all this, I agree we probably should have done this from day 1.

Other things we have learnt is how to reset BMU cell values, cell softening ( a low-level balance ) and how to get the car to calculate the cells SOC.

Based on what range was shown at 30% SOC .. it looks promising.

So when we are finally happy with this modification and worked out the procedures to get this done efficiently, we will post the results here and start promoting the Mod as a supply and fit to start and hopefully as a kit one day for DIY.

Cheers Graeme
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

suziauto wrote: Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 07:48 Hi Everyone,

I purposely don't say much whilst I am still working on the project as I get so many messages and I prefer to announce the results when finished. Anyways, we have installed the cells and removed them a few times. The first install included the modifications to the cell boxes, the design and fabrication of BMS connection tags ( now have 500 in stock ) . The first install was the cells as they arrived with 30% SOC, the logic was the cars BMU would charge and balance these cells. What happened was some cells were too low and the error state prevented charging. Out they came and we have 10 small single cell chargers so we charged all 88. Upon installing we had some cells too high prompting another error code and no charging. So using the scan tool we identified the 2 overcharged cells and got the pack apart and discharged those 2 cells. This time we had charging, 30% on the fuel gauge and 56Km on range guess o meter. A few driving cycles but the best we can achieve is 56 km and 30%. The issue being the %SOC difference between the low and the high cells. Effectively so wide a gap that the BMU could not manage the balancing. So today the cells are all coming out and we will assemble them as 1 large 4v cell to self-balance with a small charger on the end of the string to keep some input going in (4v 8200Ah battery lol ). Some might say a no brainer and after all this, I agree we probably should have done this from day 1.

Other things we have learnt is how to reset BMU cell values, cell softening ( a low-level balance ) and how to get the car to calculate the cells SOC.

Based on what range was shown at 30% SOC .. it looks promising.

So when we are finally happy with this modification and worked out the procedures to get this done efficiently, we will post the results here and start promoting the Mod as a supply and fit to start and hopefully as a kit one day for DIY.

Cheers Graeme
Thanks Graeme for this keenly awaited update.
These encountered trial issues are exactly the reasons I was not confident to take on a project like this on my own.
suziauto wrote: Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 07:48 1 large 4v cell to self-balance with a small charger on the end of the string to keep some input going in (4v 8200Ah battery lol ).
When I considered to get the 60Ah cells from WA, I was thinking of making up temporary 16 cell packs, charge them to 80 or 90% while constantly checking the cell voltages (I have shunts with coloured LEDs). Then if the cells are too far out of balance charge each cell individually to the value of the highest voltage.
That still would not be a proper bottom to top balance, but since the cells are new I think it might be good enough for the car's BMS to take over. I would be interested to hear of any reason this would have been bad (or dangerous).Thanks.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by stealthhack »

i am subscribing to wait for more results, and will be happy if you can make a video for assembling the battery pack with the new cells, mounting, and calibrating them on AC. Also i think that these cells will not have any problems to charge 1,34C(328V 125Amps to 93Ah is 1,34C) on DC Fast charger. Waiting for more results, as this is the first time on our planet, that someone is changing the cells on I-MIEV(alternatively on Ion/C-Zero).
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jamie85063 »

Fantastic news to know this project is going ahead and progress being made👍
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

Rundown on the 94Ah imiev
https://youtu.be/https://youtu.be/l4lrpjq2qZs
Interview starts at 6:50
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore »

brendon_m wrote: Sat, 11 Jul 2020, 06:42 Rundown on the 94Ah imiev

Interview starts at 6:50
At about 9+ minutes he mentions to
parallel connect the 88 charged cells for a couple of days.
Does that really equalise the cell voltages, what happens when they are separated again and connected in series?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m »

It will but the difference in voltage is so low between cells that the current being pushed from cell to cell will make it a very long endeavour. You are much better off connecting in parallel and then going through a cycle. That will pull them into line much faster.
Once they are in sync they should stay there, even after the pack is put back to series. (assuming they are same capacity, resistance, temperature, etc)
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by stealthhack »

Any progress on I-Miev's battery pack?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

Well the 60 Ah cell option (the subject of many posts in this thread) has been abandoned, but the 93 Ah upgrade is ongoing. So far so good, but we'll wait to hear back from Grame as to how it's progressing.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg »

This is a discharge curve of the 60 Ah cells:
Discharge test.JPG
Discharge test.JPG (27.57 KiB) Viewed 1238 times
Which makes it look like just about every Li-NMC cell on the market. If you let it charge to 4.2 V per cell, it will take it. The old 50 Ah cells in most iMiEVs on the road today have suffered loss of lithium inventory, which means they have fewer mobile lithium ions to enter and exit the electrodes. This increases DCIR meaning more sag, or voltage drop under load. Conversely, it means quicker voltage rise under charge.

While this wasn't a constant 0.45 C discharge, it was pretty close. The current stayed pretty close to 27 A the whole time.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Blake_S »

Voltage sag under load: Could this be why I saw the tortoise light (for the first time BTW) with 9 segments still on the battery gauge, while trying to maintain 75km/h up the South Eastern Freeway on the way to Callington last October?
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