Prelude conversion project - some questions

Technical discussion on converting internal combustion to electric
User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3761
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by coulomb » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 05:40

Wouldn't longer bolts be easier? Unless they're very special bolts.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 06:48

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post. My problem is there is no room for the nuts on the back. An alternative is to use countersunk bolts in the opposite direction but then I would have to assemble the midshaft-end plate unit as one, making repairs very difficult.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

francisco.shi
Groupie
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 16:30
Real Name: Francisco
Location: Brisbane, Strathpine

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by francisco.shi » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:08

Could you put some thread inserts?
I am assuming the problem is you drilled the holes for the bolt size so now you can't put a thread on it?

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:25

francisco.shi wrote:
Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:08
I am assuming the problem is you drilled the holes for the bolt size so now you can't put a thread on it?
Bingo.

Nah, I have access to some machine tools today, I'll just make up a 13 mm thick block and tap it. That should be enough meat to keep it steady.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 13:08

Longer blots maybe? The spacing still needs to be the same thickness so using a thinner plate isn't going to improve the bolt stick through at all.
If you helicoil the thread holes in the ally it will be a lot stronger thread wise.

T1 Terry

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 13:11

All good - I'm sourcing a 13 mm thick bit of aluminium which can be tapped directly - less room for mis-alignment that way too.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
blwnhr
Noobie
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue, 02 Apr 2019, 05:10
Real Name: Adam
Location: Launceston, TAS
Contact:

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by blwnhr » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 17:15

Just make sure you put anti-seize on the threads, alloy is a shocker for galling.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 19:36

Good call - I have some nickel based stuff that would work well.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 21:00

Much nicer - 13 mm and some coarse thread should hold it in place.
20190627_202828.jpg
20190627_202828.jpg (176.32 KiB) Viewed 890 times
At a pinch I might be able to fit a jam nut on the back, but it's window dressing really.
20190627_202908.jpg
20190627_202908.jpg (142.57 KiB) Viewed 890 times
I will drill and tap these tomorrow, and band-saw off the corner.
20190627_202935.jpg
20190627_202935.jpg (154.39 KiB) Viewed 890 times
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

rhills
Site Admin
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri, 25 Jul 2008, 01:57
Real Name: Rob Hills
Location: Waikiki, WA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by rhills » Fri, 28 Jun 2019, 00:28

I use Tef-Gel on the boat. It's perfect for preventing galling of stainless steel screws/fittings on aluminium masts in a salty environment. Without it, the ally is oxidising within 6 months.
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Mar 2019
Total Petrol: 646.6L
ODO: 47979
Av Consumption: 1.35 L/100km

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Fri, 28 Jun 2019, 08:37

Knocked this up before work.
Midshaft support plate.jpg
Midshaft support plate.jpg (45.47 KiB) Viewed 878 times
Might finally get a chance to drop the motor-gearbox into the engine bay and size up the last two chassis mounts this weekend.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sat, 29 Jun 2019, 21:49

Finished this part. I'll have to get to the chassis mounts tomorrow.
It seems to be held in position quite well and spins freely, but I will be using some locktite for sure.
20190629_213459.jpg
20190629_213459.jpg (195.68 KiB) Viewed 850 times
20190629_213520.jpg
20190629_213520.jpg (171.77 KiB) Viewed 850 times
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry » Sun, 30 Jun 2019, 10:03

If you use Loctite you don't need to use anti seize type products because the Loctite fills in the spaces where the problems can occur and acts as a lubricant on the thread while assembling. Just be care what grade you use because you can't really heat the bolt or thread area to release the Loctite. the last thing you want is to pull the thread and all out when trying to undo the fastener. This is why helicoils are Loctited in but the stainless fastener has anti seize between the helicoil thread and the fastener thread, you don't want the helicoil to come out but you don't want the fastener to bind to the helicoil either.
Even the Winston LYP cells now have helicoils in all the terminal threads, far less risk of pulling a thread out.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sun, 30 Jun 2019, 16:56

Well I lowered the assembly into the engine bay, carefully avoiding all the plumbing I've already installed.
20190630_155200.jpg
20190630_155200.jpg (234.85 KiB) Viewed 827 times
The side and rear transmission mounts are good, but I need to find a place for the front and side engine mounts.
20190630_164252.jpg
20190630_164252.jpg (263.35 KiB) Viewed 827 times
It's going to be a rather long one I suspect, so I can use the other three M10 fixings on the other end of the motor.
20190630_164317.jpg
20190630_164317.jpg (199.75 KiB) Viewed 827 times
Front mount should be a little easier, but nothing like the original I suspect.
20190630_164344.jpg
20190630_164344.jpg (180.95 KiB) Viewed 827 times
The height above is pretty good - I can work with it but it will still be very tight.
20190630_164417.jpg
20190630_164417.jpg (256.69 KiB) Viewed 827 times
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry » Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 10:11

Maybe see what components you can fit into that space and make the cradle that supports them part of the structure that also supports the motor weight. That mount is really only to reduce the see-saw effect on the two side mounts by carrying the weight rather than acting as any sort of torsional member. I doubt you could get away with leaving that mount out, the drivers side mount isn't designed to reduce movement but rather the reduce vibration transfer.

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Mon, 01 Jul 2019, 10:17

I think the only one I can afford to leave out is the front mount, but unfortunately that's the easiest one to fabricate :)
I'd like to put the airconditioning compressor down there, as I'd really rather not have to de-gas and re-gas the system should the motor ever need to come out. Worst case the aircon can be accessed from underneath.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Wed, 17 Jul 2019, 21:24

Left hand side engine mount is done (less the grinding and black-painting). I will need to get the front one done - torsional movement will be fairly significant so it's wise to have it solidly mounted on all four sides.
LHS Mount1.jpg
LHS Mount1.jpg (174.65 KiB) Viewed 632 times
LHS Mount 2.jpg
LHS Mount 2.jpg (252.01 KiB) Viewed 632 times
Ignore the brass nuts - they were the only M10 nuts I could find for the test fit!
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
Richo
Senior Member
Posts: 3737
Joined: Mon, 16 Jun 2008, 00:19
Real Name: Richard
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by Richo » Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 12:54

Sorry I can't see your brass nuts because of your long rod.
I would have thought 100RHS would be more appropriate.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Fri, 19 Jul 2019, 15:21

:P

It's only there to prevent any roll, which there will be very little of. Most of the forces on the motor-gearbox assembly will be pitch; rapid acceleration and deceleration will cause the motor to twist a little.
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sat, 20 Jul 2019, 13:09

Front engine mount is done! We're almost ready to mount the motor permanently in the car :D Only upon removing the front engine mount bush did I discover it's shagged :x So until eBay delivers I will have to settle for a grinding and painting day.
Front motor mount welded.jpg
Front motor mount welded.jpg (263.13 KiB) Viewed 587 times
Front engine mount LHS.jpg
Front engine mount LHS.jpg (190.68 KiB) Viewed 587 times
Front engine mount RHS.jpg
Front engine mount RHS.jpg (197.03 KiB) Viewed 587 times
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 13:44

jonescg wrote:
Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 09:37
Hehe, well as always you find errors as you go along. I wired up the A/C system as drawn here with much discomfort (soldering painfully short wires upside down in a car footwell is awful) but when I turned the ignition to ON, the system fired up. That's not supposed to happen...

Then I realised what's wrong. The second relay which is designed to switch the A/C system to ground and power it up is also being powered by the ignition +12 V supply. I still need to take the +12 V supply from the Arduino thermal management system and use it to power the grounding relay so that all of the thermal protection sensors are in series.

I believe the solution is to add a blocking diode. Provided the current doesn't exceed 10 A...

new Aircon wiring5.png
OK well this is new.

I put a 12 V power supply on the car to test the reversing light circuit. Since the wiring loom from the engine included the section which links the reverse switch on the transmission to the main loom is gone, I'll just have to wire another section back in. The jumper worked - great. I turned the key off and the radiator fan fires up!

Somehow the fan is being powered by an unswitched supply whenever the car is turned off. And whenever the car is turned on, it stops, unless the A/C button is pressed :? :?

So very strange, because it never did this before. I've done nothing with the wiring since finishing the AC wiring (and testing it thoroughly).
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

T1 Terry
Senior Member
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu, 30 Sep 2010, 20:11
Real Name: Terry Covill
Location: Mannum SA

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by T1 Terry » Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 14:55

Just double check you haven't accidently put a wire that should have gone on the 12v negative terminal, on to the 12v positive terminal. I spent a while trying to figure out what had gone wrong with my caravan mover EB falcon because when the battery was connected there was no starter but the air con fan came on and a few other weird bits when the ignition was off. Finally found the error, it certainly looked like a cable that belonged on the positive busbar, but once on the negative terminal, all was well with the world again. The car had sat for at least 12 mths because I couldn't get it going, about 3 turns of the motor and away it went, gotta love the Fords :lol:

T1 Terry
Green but want to learn

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by brendon_m » Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 15:00

Looking at your diagram I'd guess that the blue wire that goes to the fan switch I've circled is probably floating high.
Did you mess with any blue wires in the engine bay?
If you find that wire and probe it and see what's there.
If I'm right then it couldn't be much power because it would be a short through the diode block that's above the pressure switch and you would blow Fuses when the ac is on
IMG_20190721_144912.png
IMG_20190721_144912.png (260.93 KiB) Viewed 557 times

User avatar
jonescg
Senior Member
Posts: 2983
Joined: Thu, 21 Jan 2010, 23:05
Real Name: Chris Jones
Location: Perth, WA.

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by jonescg » Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 15:34

That cooling fan switch is the thermostat - normally hooked up to an NO thermostat, so once it goes above 90'C it conducts.

I turned the car off, and the radiator fan fired up. I also noticed that the condensor fan fires up briefly but soon stops. While the fan was running (and the ignition was off) I pulled fuse 17 - nothing. I pulled fuse 18 - no change either. SO I went to the under-hood box and pulled fuse 39 - that stopped the fan. But it fired up as soon as I returned it, suggesting there was something powering the black and yellow wire. Strange though that the condensor fan didn't also fire up.

So it seems to be getting power from somewhere further back... Terry - no Hondas a definitely more complicated than that!
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: Prelude conversion project - some questions

Post by brendon_m » Sun, 21 Jul 2019, 15:46

What I was trying to say is I reckon the relay is getting a positive on the blue wire (just enough to turn on a relay but not much more and it sounds like not even enough power to run 2 relays, hence the condenser fan dropping out) and then the circuit gets a ground from the black/yellow wire through the ignition circuits while the key is off. Once you turn the key on the black/yellow goes to 12v( which puts 12v on both sides of the relay which makes it turn off until the blue wire gets a ground from the a/c switch

Post Reply