Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Sun, 23 Dec 2018, 15:00

Moderator note: Some posts that had drifted off-topic were move here.
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tonyw wrote:
Wed, 12 Dec 2018, 06:15
How do you connect to those Liyuan cells? I see no threaded holes for studs.

Is there a protective sticker over the hole, perhaps? Over the hole on the pole ;)?
They haven't been drilled and tapped yet. They like to keep the options open.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by BJOR » Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 04:39

Is there an order going ahead for these batteries? I'm in Brisbane and want 1 to test please.
cheers.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 09:03

BJOR wrote:
Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 04:39
Is there an order going ahead for these batteries? I'm in Brisbane and want 1 to test please.
cheers.
No orders yet, but I hope to place the order for 100 Ah cells early next year. Since the cells will be delivered to Fremantle there will be some shipping costs to get them across to Brisbane, but we can cross that bridge when we get to it. I want to get the battery enclosures before committing to a cell order, although if in the end it doesn't fit, I'm sure there will be buyers.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Drdove » Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 10:45

Hey gents, I am interested in this project and am considering attempting it myself.

However, I know for a fact that thei-MiEV won’t recognize more capacity. It will have to be hacked.

I had the battery replaced by the dealer. Afterwards it still said I had 22 Ah. So the car operates solyon current in and out. I drove my car till it stopped moving and it still had 3.85 volts per cell. I looked up in the shop Manuel and it said you have to reset the capacity with the MUT3. So I went to the dealer and he said he reset the capacity but now I had 27 Ah. So I took it back and showed him the procedure from the shop manual. It says to send the reset command until it reads 45Ah. This time I recovered full capacity. So, no matter what cells you have it only goes to 45 Ah.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 11:58

Drdove wrote:
Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 10:45
So the car operates solely on current in and out.
Interesting - so would Matt's hack work then? Basically put a second shunt in parallel with the existing one so it only measures half the current being drawn from the pack?
Or does the iMiEV use a Hall effect sensor? If we can hack it to read more than 45 Ah that would be ideal, but not without a lot of detective work first.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho » Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 12:14

Apparently the register used to transmit battery capacity as a can packet only reads 0-60Ah (BMU Item 23/24 http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/on ... 600ENG.HTM). I think the 45Ah threshold is where they want it to calibrate to after cycling a new pack for a few times before letting it go out the door.

I think the more important question is where this capacity reading is used. If the trigger for turtle mode is cell voltages (or temperature) rather than the capacity I think it won't matter that the capacity is read wrong. It might mess with the Guess-O-meter. Battery maximum output power (BMU data Item 26) seems to me to be more likely to be the "turtle mode" trigger?

My pack is from 2015, so I've got a ways to go before it's not getting me the range I need. However when it isn't I'll be seriously considering some 75Ah+ cells. Contingency plan if repacking the battery doesn't work is to add it to home energy storage.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Johny » Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 13:26

The most reasonable assumption I can think of is that turtle mode is invoked if any cell hits a low voltage threshold.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Fri, 24 May 2019, 16:27

Hi All,
I will be placing an order for these prismatic NMC cells before June 30. If anyone is interested in getting some, let me know. Probably best if based in WA but happy to ship them across to the East. I'll be getting the 60 Ah cells for the iMiEV conversion.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Travers » Mon, 27 May 2019, 19:30

Super keen to hear how you go and will be interested in what you can come up with in terms of replacement/upgrade of the pack.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Mon, 27 May 2019, 19:42

Travers wrote:
Mon, 27 May 2019, 19:30
Super keen to hear how you go and will be interested in what you can come up with in terms of replacement/upgrade of the pack.
If you're interest in buying cells in this order you can jump in - saves a couple of hundred in shipping and hassles, but there will be more. Mind you the exchange rate is awful.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by ThisNonsense » Wed, 29 May 2019, 12:42

Do you have a rough idea how much it'll cost to replace a pack?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Wed, 29 May 2019, 12:49

There will be about $7500 worth of cells in an iMiEV, and probably another couple of grand in labour putting it all together. It should give about 150 km range though.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Wed, 29 May 2019, 14:02

Drdove wrote:
Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 10:45
...I looked up in the shop Manuel and it said you have to reset the capacity with the MUT3. ... It says to send the reset command until it reads 45Ah. This time I recovered full capacity. So, no matter what cells you have it only goes to 45 Ah.
Perhaps the reason it says to send the reset command until it reads 45Ah is because that is the correct value for a new pack, not because you could not keep going and set it higher? Elsewhere in this thread I thought someone found that the maximum value is 60Ah, in which case, with a 60Ah aftermarket pack, could you not keep going sending the reset command until it got to the maximum permitted value of 60Ah?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by g4qber » Wed, 29 May 2019, 14:08

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
My Percentage of Manufacturer's Capacity (PMC) via EVBatMon since 26/11/2017 done 65k kms
New Battery from Mitsubishi Japan 95.21%, now 86.88%
2011 i-MiEV - k kms 212

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Wed, 29 May 2019, 14:24

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Wed, 29 May 2019, 14:02
Drdove wrote:
Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 10:45
...I looked up in the shop Manuel and it said you have to reset the capacity with the MUT3. ... It says to send the reset command until it reads 45Ah. This time I recovered full capacity. So, no matter what cells you have it only goes to 45 Ah.
Perhaps the reason it says to send the reset command until it reads 45Ah is because that is the correct value for a new pack, not because you could not keep going and set it higher? Elsewhere in this thread I thought someone found that the maximum value is 60Ah, in which case, with a 60Ah aftermarket pack, could you not keep going sending the reset command until it got to the maximum permitted value of 60Ah?
Yep, from another thread:
Image
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Sat, 01 Jun 2019, 19:30

jonescg wrote:
Wed, 29 May 2019, 12:49
There will be about $7500 worth of cells in an iMiEV, and probably another couple of grand in labour putting it all together. It should give about 150 km range though.
For 150 km range ten grand would be worthwhile . The next question is I suppose harder to quantify: how long do these cells last, resp. what deterioration can reasonably be expected ?
Just as a reference, my LEV50s are now approx 9 years old and the capacity is down to ~69%. I am fairly sure that the 2 year younger LEV50N cells will have more capacity in two years time (comparing notes with several 2012 model owners).
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sat, 01 Jun 2019, 21:18

nuggetgalore wrote:
Sat, 01 Jun 2019, 19:30
jonescg wrote:
Wed, 29 May 2019, 12:49
There will be about $7500 worth of cells in an iMiEV, and probably another couple of grand in labour putting it all together. It should give about 150 km range though.
Just as a reference, my LEV50s are now approx 9 years old and the capacity is down to ~69%. I am fairly sure that the 2 year younger LEV50N cells will have more capacity in two years time (comparing notes with several 2012 model owners).
I thought that the 2012s that came to Australia were all made before the change to LEV50N and so have LEV50 like the 2010 model.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 06:48

I thought that the 2012s that came to Australia were all made before the change to LEV50N and so have LEV50 like the 2010 model.
That is an interesting comment.
For one reason or another,I assumed (guilty as charged), that the 2012 units have the LEV50N cells. Nevertheless , checking and comparing the batteries of two 2010 models and four 2012 models, the loss of capacity appears to be a good indication of an improved cell. By the way, both 2010 models have done considerably fewer km on the road than 3 of the 4 2012s.*Also since I have checked these batteries over more than two years, the 2012 show higher capacity now than the 2010 two years ago (when they were the same age as the 2012 are now).
* that is asking a different question: how does charging and discharging (ie running the car) affect the cells comparing to just sitting idle? What influence have long periods (more than a week,a month) sitting idle ?

[ Edited Coulomb: fixed [quote] tag ]
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 07:47

nuggetgalore wrote:
Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 06:48
For one reason or another,I assumed (guilty as charged), that the 2012 units have the LEV50N cells. ... I have checked these batteries over more than two years, the 2012 show higher capacity now than the 2010 two years ago (when they were the same age as the 2012 are now).
Interesting. It would not surprise me if there were incremental improvements made in later production runs of the battery (or any other product) that did not coincide with a change of name for the product.

[ Edited Coulomb: repaired and trimmed quoting. ]
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Thu, 22 Aug 2019, 15:55

It has been very quiet lately on the iMiEV front.
Just came back from Qld where I hibernate, the cold weather sure reduces the range!
Any new developments in the cell replacement saga?
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho » Sun, 25 Aug 2019, 16:28

I'm keen for a cell replacement in the next 12-24 months. This winter I've been struggling to get home without running out of charge. I'd love to source an old battery pack so I can take my time repacking it.
I'm also not sure how much it's worth spending on cells, the cost of a grey import leaf is about the limit in value. Although I plan to use the old cells as home energy storage if I replace them.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Pierantoine » Tue, 17 Sep 2019, 21:33

jonescg wrote:
Wed, 29 May 2019, 12:49
There will be about $7500 worth of cells in an iMiEV, and probably another couple of grand in labour putting it all together. It should give about 150 km range though.
Hello,
I'm really interested in this project.
Have you installed the new pack of LiYuan cells ? is there any problem or does it works ?
thanks for your answser.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Tue, 17 Sep 2019, 21:47

No not yet, but I hope to have the 60 Ah cells very shortly.
Unfortunately, Roger fell gravely ill so his wife Pauline will take on the project.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Pierantoine » Tue, 17 Sep 2019, 23:33

Could you please give me a link on the product or a datasheet ?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Wed, 18 Sep 2019, 09:29

3.6V-42AH-NMC.pdf
(183.28 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
3.6V-135AH-NMC3.pdf
(210.5 KiB) Downloaded 24 times
3.6V-100AH-NMCta_.pdf
(231.61 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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