PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Rick54
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Rick54 » Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 21:56

Hello Coulomb,

Thank you for your answer. So i will play with that old menu.
I tried the software from your link and it broke the link with the com port to the inverter (had to hard relaunch the remote display to be linked with the inverter)
I tried the new menu and it's very good. I noticed that there is 3 options now in the menu 4 "Power Saving" : Sds / SEn and "nor" : after the update my inverter was on nor and i changed it back to Sds(was the setting prior update). What is "nor" used for ? I didn't see it in the Manual or in the AussieView manual.
I will take you a picture if needed.

Regards

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Wed, 07 Nov 2018, 06:27

Rick54 wrote:
Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 21:56
I tried the new menu and it's very good. I noticed that there is 3 options now in the menu 4 "Power Saving" : Sds / SEn and "nor" : after the update my inverter was on nor and i changed it back to Sds(was the setting prior update). What is "nor" used for ? I didn't see it in the Manual or in the AussieView manual.
I will take you a picture if needed.
Thanks for pointing that out. I have just uploaded a new version of the AussieView manual to correct that oversight, with the following:

SAv [04] nor    Power saving mode  Normal (AC on, DC-DC on, 50 W no load)
         SdS                       Saving disabled (AC on, DC-DC 33% when low load, 46 W no load)
         SEn    (when PAr = SnG)   Saving enabled (AC off when low load, 2 W no load)

"nor" is present in the unpatched (i.e. manufacturer's) 73.00 firmware, but is not mentioned in the manufacturer's manual. The above information is based on painstaking investigation by Coulomb. Neither Coulomb nor I can see any point in having the "nor" option, except that maybe turning on a very heavy load might make the AC voltage sag less, and hence lights flicker less. We haven't tested this.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by 6mdx » Wed, 07 Nov 2018, 06:40

My 5048 pwm scc board has finaly turned up. No instruction or guidance.
Just aswell i am used to doing these electronic things.
Any way its installed and i will connect it up to test later.
Heres hoping they got it right.

On another note I noticed that the battery leads that are inside the case were corroded, this inverter was made 6/2017, installed 1/2018. Operating for 7 months, waiting for scc for 3 months..

This is installed in a lock up garage, so how long are they going to last?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Wed, 07 Nov 2018, 07:12

erland82 wrote:
Mon, 05 Nov 2018, 23:13
Is there any conformal coating on the PIPs PCBs?
I am concerned about condensation if the temp is to low.
Yes, there is conformal coating on the PIP PCBs.
Can I start and stop the Pip inverting 230v remotely? And still charge the batteries?
If I can, i will hook up a small heater and preheat the main cabin before arrival winter time.
Yes, with Coulomb's and my latest patched firmware, you can stop the PIP inverting remotely, and it will still charge the batteries. See the section on "Dynamic Load Control" in this manual.
paulvk wrote:
Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 16:07
Hello erland82
You could turn the inverter on/off with switch when you get there but the MPPT stops as well
Paul, I have tested recent PIPs and I find they will still charge the battery from either solar or AC, even when the switch at the bottom of the inverter is turned off. This switch is purely a load switch. Sure, if there is no AC or solar available, it will shut down completely, but it will wake up again the next morning when the sun comes up, to charge the battery.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Monkeytom » Wed, 07 Nov 2018, 13:28

paulvk wrote:
Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 16:07
Hello erland82
You could turn the inverter on/off with switch when you get there but the MPPT stops as well
Paul are you sure about that? With My pair of PIP4048HS i switch the second inverter off every day and the solar side works seperate to the AC inverter side, Same with the Pip3024HS i have in the Caravan the solar wakes up with sun and shuts down at dusk with the AC switched Off.
2 x PIP4048HS
15S2Px3 45x90Ah TS and
45x100Ah CALB
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6x175W BP 1Kw Si Offgrid
28x60W Thin film Offgrid
18x185W 2Kw Si Offgrid
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by erland82 » Thu, 08 Nov 2018, 05:12

Tanks for answers guys!

Iv mailed with mppsolar and i am going to order the new PIP-MK SERIES 5048MK.
They will hit the stores in desember.
Hope it fits in my backpack, otherwise i have to borrow a snowmobile. Winter is coming!

I also have an HLK-RM04 in the mail, that will be a fun project.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Thu, 08 Nov 2018, 08:13

erland82 wrote:
Thu, 08 Nov 2018, 05:12
Iv mailed with mppsolar and i am going to order the new PIP-MK SERIES 5048MK.
In case you were planning to rely on any of the features of our patched firmware, such as the ability to remotely disconnect and reconnect the loads, I note that this patched firmware is not available for the PIP-5048MK. But it is available for the PIP-5048MS (with 64 V option).
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by 6mdx » Sat, 10 Nov 2018, 14:53

6mdx wrote:
Wed, 07 Nov 2018, 06:40
My 5048 pwm scc board has finaly turned up. No instruction or guidance.
Just aswell i am used to doing these electronic things.
Any way its installed and i will connect it up to test later.
Heres hoping they got it right.
Well no compllaint, easy install worked fine. One thing that I noticed was pwm on 2s 60 cell was putting out about 40 amps. The mppt inverter was only doing about 25 amps on the same 3kw panels. 2s is not enough, and, even worse when it was near 40 C here this week.
So next task is to reconfigure to 3s.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Rick54 » Sat, 10 Nov 2018, 23:34

Hello ,

After one week of try of the last 73 version i found no issue.
Thank you very much for your work.

I'm located on the other side of the earth for you all (Europe). You are always talking about a lot of watts resulting from your panels and i m a bit jealous. I wish i could have more sun there.

As a matter of fact, what software do you use to manage your system and to adapt it depending of the sun / the amps request / temperature / ... ?

For my part i use Lucibus (https://www.lucibus.com/web/en/) I found this link from an old one at page 1 of this post.
This software can adapt the setting of the inverter in accordance with batterie level to avoid to stress too much the batteries and have them died after 2 years.
You can have SonOff systems working with it and set an load shedding if voltage drop below your desired value.
You can have an automatic switch to the grid if you are using for example 25 amps for more than 45seconds. (it is always cheaper to have paid for 2 minutes of grid instead of 6 batteries)
You can link to a bmv702.
Fottosetore (the guy that made it) add as well an Android or iPhone App to monitor the system and send you email if something is happening to your system.
You have web acces to your graph and sum up of the weekly or monthly production, discharge ... and have a weather correspondance in case of you have no energy production you can know if it is due to the weather or other issue
http://www.lucibus.com/lucicloud/tuttigrafici.php (you can try inverter 2 or 10 for example)(it is corresponding to one guy production)
I put screen shot of my system (set for winter ...) At least you can have a rough idea of what you can set (i know it is in French but it can be set to english as well)
The last thing, Fotosettore did a cube thing : https://www.lucibus.com/cubus to monitor in your house what your inverters are doing.

I search a long time on the net for many software and i only found this one with all those options.
If you have other suggestions for software i will take it.

Regards.

https://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/19/90/39/98/unname13.png
https://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/19/90/39/98/unname11.png
https://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/19/90/39/98/unname10.png
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by aranurea » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 05:47

HI everyone, I'm new here. I have a EASunPower Inverter which is listed as an 812LV-MS model. It is low voltage at 120/110 V and has only a USB port. What information here is relevant to my inverter? I want to control it using a raspberry pi, but can't figure out what info is relevant to me. What do I do to communicate with this inverter? Thank you.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 13:52

aranurea wrote:
Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 05:47
What do I do to communicate with this inverter?
812LV-MS is a part number for a MPPSolar branded inverter manufactured by Voltronic Power. I'll assume that your inverter is a genuine but rebadged Voltronic Power model, and not a knock-off / clone.

WatchPower control software (it probably came with your inverter) presumably knows how to talk to your inverter over the USB port. My understanding is that it's not as simple as talking to it via a virtual serial port, as I would have expected. For whatever reason, the way to talk to it isn't documented, and those few that have figured it out don't seem to want to share how it's done.

WatchPower is a Java program, so it can be disassembled pretty well, if you have the patience. Presumably, buried in there must be the secret to how it's done. Then you'll need to adapt those techniques to a Raspberry Pi.

Once you have figured out how to talk to it, you just need to know the commands to send it, and the responses to expect. See the 5 kVA 230 V model protocol manuals for details. I expect that most of the main commands would be supported by the low voltage models.

Good luck. Please post details if you figure out the connection details. I wish that the news was better.

[ Edit: reworded protocol manual sentence. ]
[ Edit: MPPSolar -> MPPSolar branded ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 16:35

coulomb wrote:
Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 13:52
For whatever reason, the way to talk to it isn't documented, and those few that have figured it out don't seem to want to share how it's done.
I went searching and found one person who figured out how to communicate with Voltronic Power inverters on their USB port, from Linux, who did share how it's done. Kudos to user "Gnome" on the South African Power Forum. https://powerforum.co.za/topic/984-axpe ... ment-18790
Once you have figured out how to talk to it, you just need to know the commands to send it, and the responses to expect. See the 5 kVA 230 V model protocol manuals for details. I expect that most of the main commands would be supported by the low voltage models.
@aranurea, You'll find links to those protocol manuals here: viewtopic.php?t=4332
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Andreixda » Sat, 17 Nov 2018, 03:15

Hi Guys, i need your help. I have 3 inverters 5KVA-48-PAR A with only one MPPT each (i think similar with Axpert MKS 5K) in three phase configuratin.A very long time ago i did an upgrade with your firmware Pb1 72.70b ( for lead acid) and until now worked perfect. Today I bought 3 new batteries to replace my 16 lead batteries. This batteries are Pylontech US2000 Plus (and is written on the box lithium ion battery).What should i do ? What firmware to use and what setting i should put in Watchpower because in the batt instructions is written charge voltage between 52.5-54V max current 25 per batt, because i saw on the net instructions just to level absorb and float level to 53.2V and that is all ( not to say that the book is almost useless . Please help me to do this setup.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Sat, 17 Nov 2018, 07:29

Andreixda wrote:
Sat, 17 Nov 2018, 03:15
What firmware to use and what setting i should put in Watchpower because in the batt instructions is written charge voltage between 52.5-54V max current 25 per batt, because i saw on the net instructions just to level absorb and float level to 53.2V and that is all...
Use the settings in this Power Forum post as a guide; they seem to use a lot of Pylontechs there:
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2249-axp ... eshooting/

Ideally, you would use 25 A for maximum charge current (setting 2) for your 3 inverters, assuming that each one has equal PV connected. But the nearest choices are 20 and 30 A. You could use 20A on 2 and 30 A on whichever inverter (if any) has the best solar. That totals 70 A, which is under the 3x25=75 A limit.
I would set float (setting 27) at 50.3 V. It's not a good idea to leave the battery at a high voltage all afternoon. It only makes a very slight difference to SOC to do this.
I would also consider reducing the absorb (CV) voltage (setting 26) to something closer to 52.5 V [ Edit: was 51.8 V ]. Again, there is little SOC difference to using 53.2 V, and it's a little kinder on the cells. But maybe they need a higher voltage for bypassing.

I prefer not to use much grid charging, so I'd use 50 V for the return to battery voltage (setting 13).

You need to use the lithium ferrous phosphate (LFP) variant of the latest patched firmware for PF0.8 machines. You will find a link to that in the Firmware section of the index page. At present that's either release version LF1_73.00c or beta version BF1_73.00d.

[ Edit: From the specifications, the minimum recommended charge voltage is 52.5 V. Presumably, this is needed for bypassing / equalising the cells. ]
[ Edit: Better description of the appropriate firmware, with link. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by Andreixda » Sat, 17 Nov 2018, 12:39

Thank you ! in this morning (because is morning in Romania) i will start the setup and we will see how il works.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by erland82 » Mon, 19 Nov 2018, 08:24

After reading a lot, I've changed the plan .... What do you think?


Solar tracking will be off when i am not present.
The primary usage for the 230v ac is the incinerating toilet, refrigerator, oven fan and the oven exhaust fan.
I want to expand my system to be able to pre heat the cottage, when i can afford more batteries.
Last edited by erland82 on Mon, 19 Nov 2018, 14:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Mon, 19 Nov 2018, 09:12

erland82 wrote:
Mon, 19 Nov 2018, 08:24
After reading a lot, I've changed the plan .... What do you think?
https://imgur.com/a/EMPo9UR
That looks good except that you need to use a USB-to-RS232 adapter cable between the PC and the PIP-5048MS. Like this:
Image
I know the PIP has a USB socket, but it is very difficult to communicate via that. It appears to the PC as a raw HID device, not a COM port. Much easier to communicate via the PIP's RS232 socket (an RJ45) and the supplied RJ45 to DE9 cable.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber » Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 15:50

Coulomb and I have been working on a set of firmware patches to address the "kettle cut-off" or "premature source switching" problem. We had a major setback when we bricked one of monkeytom's inverters in the process (a new one is on its way to him). But as of today, I am testing the first working non-bricking development version (YF1_73.00e). Hoorah! But there are some aspects of it that I'd like to run past you gentlemen.

First, we can't decide what to call this feature, KettleKomp™ or AussieBrew™. ;)

Second, we're not sure how well it is going to work on all the many and varied PIP-4048 and PIP-5048 systems out there. The math-challenged can skip the fine print below.

We currently calculate:

voltage_threshold_compensation = battery_current * guestimated_internal_resistance

where

guestimated_internal_resistance = k * (absorb_voltage_setting[26] - float_voltage_setting[27]) / max_total_charge_current_setting[2].

where k is a constant. I tried k = 1 and it was too low, at least for my system. I'm now trying k = 2.

When there are parallel or phased machines, battery_current and max_total_charge_current_setting[2] are summed over all machines.

We're trying to avoid having to provide a user interface to allow setting the internal resistance, as this would be very difficult. This formula is based on the idea that at least some part of the difference between absorb and float voltage settings is due to the internal resistance of the battery causing voltage rise at the maximum charging current.



We're asking PIP owners to help us by telling us how many volts (including tenths of a volt) your battery sags by, when you turn on your kettle (or other heavy load); what battery current your kettle draws; and what your values are for settings [26], [27] and [2] (the latter summed over all machines).
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by DanoP » Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 16:38

Some data from my PIP - I use 32x 100Ah LifePo4 configured 16S2P to get 48V nominal.
PIP4048 settings [26] = 55,0V, [27]=54,2V and [2] =30A
Few samples (Ubat, Ibat) , where is shown step no discharge (or low) followed by high discharge current.

52,90 -4
51.90 -44

I can put more data in file attachment, but I don't know how to append attachment here.
Last edited by weber on Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 17:44, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Need to keep these small. One representative step in discharge is sufficient. Thanks DanoP.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by arnolde73 » Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 17:36

Hi everyone,

First I'd like to thank everyone contributing to this topic (Voltronic 5kW/48V inverters), I've learned so much here!

I've been running one for 2 years now (12kWh batt, 3kWp monocrystalline panels mounted at 70° for optimal winter performance) at my stable which is 300m out of town and has no power, and my main problem is the fact that charging from generator is a big hassle. I have 2 gensets, one 6KVA diesel (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... L1500_.jpg) with ATS, meaning it can start and stop automatically when line powercomes and goes, I don't use that feature but it comes with a simple switch "on or off" that any girl can operate, and I've wired that switch to the relay output of the inverter. Result is almost perfect operation, just need to keep the tank full and I always have power, the generator runs a couple hours every 2 days if it's constantly very cloudy. And as backup I have a cheap 2kVA gasoline generator with manual start.

Now when I first set things up, the inverter would not charge from either generator. I concentrate here only on the big one since thats the one I want to use. The inverter saw the AC input fine and activated the bypass, but as soon as it wanted to start charging, it would click-click and lose the bypass, after about 5sec go back to bypass, after another 5sec try charging again with the same result. Measuriung the voltage I saw that when the charger starts it would spike from 240v to 280v or so, apparently causing the inverter to drop off. After some calls with the generator supplier and the inverter supplier (I bought the inverter for 1100€ from a German electrician instead of 600€ on Aliexpress because I wanted full 2y warranty and support), where each put the blame on the other, I tweaked the rpm regulation from 52 Hz (no-load) down to 49 Hz and then it started to work. But I could only use 20A charging current, as soon as it reached about 25A the generator would drop below 48Hz and again the charger would drop off, and the whole cycle would restart. I understand that because the generator was really turned down too far and the motor was running too slowly for good operation. Another solution (which since the big one is broken and I have to use the small one, I'm using every week now) is to start the generator and run an AC motor off it, I tried 3 different ones (air compressor, deepwell pump, suction pump, all between 400-800W and any one works), while the motor runs it seems to smooth the waveform (havent compared with oscilloscope yet) and the inverterstarts to charge just fine. After about a minute I turn the motor off and it keeps charging for hours. I tried adding a "line filter" (like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 080%29.jpg) but it didnt help. I might add that there is 50m of 2.5mm2 cable between the genset and the inverter, I dont susprect thats a problem though.
Anyway I ran that setup with the slowed-down generator and only charging at 20A (1kW) for about 1.5 years until the generator broke (open circuit in the alternator), possibly due to overloading by the slow speed. Now I'll have to send it in to be fixed, but in that course I'd really like to fix the charging problem, here I have a 5kW generator chugging away diesel and only using 20% of its capacity.

I got all excited yesterday reading that there were new firmware updates improving the generator charge behaviour, but after checking I see I already have version 72.60 (for some reason I only have a U1 version display, no U2 version display). Will an upgrade to a newer version help, what do you think? Parameter 3 is already set to Appliance.

Another question: Why are you guys using LiFePO4 instead of AGM? Seems to me they cost 3 times as much per kWh and the only real advantage is size & weight, which of course is important in vehicles, but not stationary?

regards,
Ethan

P.S. I'm also working on an ESP8266 solution to query the QPIGS data periodically (down to 1 Hz possible) over the serial interface, and upload the data in realtime to a cloud server (i.e. thingspeak.com or basically any other solution possible) which can then in turn be queried by any device (smartphone, pc, etc.) to see stats and current status. The ESP8266 costs only 3€ and basically connects directly to the PCB connector on the serial comm board in the inverter, hardly any other parts are needed. It would also be possible without too much effort to add a 100A current sensor like the ACS773 (about 5€) to measure battery current more precisely. One of the advantages I'm hoping to achieve would be a summarizing SOC calculation, since the stock SOC estimation is pretty useless. Somehow I have the feeling my batteries are not charging/discharging as much as they should be, of the exprected 10kWh I feel like I'm only getting 2-3 kWh and I hope to gain a better insight that way. Finally it could send messages i.e. via Telegram to smartphones for alerting to interesting comditions, or simply daily status report.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 21:58

arnolde73 wrote:
Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 17:36
Measuring the voltage I saw that when the charger starts it would spike from 240v to 280v or so, apparently causing the inverter to drop off.
Yikes. 280 V will definitely drop off the inverter.
... where each put the blame on the other,
I don't believe it! Oh wait, the other thing :(
I tweaked the rpm regulation from 52 Hz (no-load) down to 49 Hz and then it started to work. But I could only use 20A charging current, as soon as it reached about 25A the generator would drop below 48Hz and again the charger would drop off, and the whole cycle would restart.
I think you really need a generator with a good electronic regulator. I thought that the larger diesel generators would have this, but spiking to 280 V suggests otherwise.
I tried 3 different ones (air compressor, deepwell pump, suction pump, all between 400-800W and any one works), while the motor runs it seems to smooth the waveform (havent compared with oscilloscope yet) and the inverterstarts to charge just fine.
Interesting. I think others have reported this as well.
I might add that there is 50m of 2.5mm2 cable between the genset and the inverter, I dont susprect thats a problem though.
50 metres? I think that could be a large part of your problem. I'd go for at least 4 mm²; 2.5 mm² is too small for 5 kVA (even though the PIP can't use all of it, charging plus loads conceivably might). Perhaps if you could adjust the generator output to 230 V (without reducing the frequency) it might help also.
Will an upgrade to a newer version help, what do you think? Parameter 3 is already set to Appliance.
I haven't been following the generator saga, but my impression is that no, a firmware update is unlikely to fix the generator issue. However, it's a pretty easy thing to try.
Another question: Why are you guys using LiFePO4 instead of AGM?
Basically because they last a lot longer, and can safely be discharged 4-5x deeper and end up being cheaper in the long term. They usually also have less voltage sag under load, unless you have amazing and expensive lead acid.
Somehow I have the feeling my batteries are not charging/discharging as much as they should be, of the expected 10kWh I feel like I'm only getting 2-3 kWh ...
Well, you can't get nominal capacity from your AGMs, if you want to get any sort of decent life from them. But even if you have 50 kWh (1000 Ah) of nominal capacity, from which you can expect to use 10 kWh routinely, you might be running into one of the factory firmware charge bugs. The charge bug (there are two, but you only experience one depending on a setting) will chronically undercharge your battery, which won't do it any favours. It could be causing your AGMs to have low capacity. Or of course, they might be ready for replacement; two years is about all you can expect from AGM, depending on many factors.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

arnolde73
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by arnolde73 » Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 15:48

coulomb wrote:
Wed, 21 Nov 2018, 21:58
I think you really need a generator with a good electronic regulator. I thought that the larger diesel generators would have this, but spiking to 280 V suggests otherwise.
Yes, maybe I should try a different one... This is the one thats built in:

50 metres? I think that could be a large part of your problem. I'd go for at least 4 mm²; 2.5 mm² is too small for 5 kVA
I'm not really worried about voltage sag and the most I'd ever use would be about 3kW. Might the long cable increase harmonics or other irregularities? I could try a shorter one (10m) when the big genset is back from repair...
Basically because they last a lot longer, and can safely be discharged 4-5x deeper and end up being cheaper in the long term. They usually also have less voltage sag under load, unless you have amazing and expensive lead acid.
And whats wrong with voltage sag? I dont really mind my AGMs moving between 44 and 55v... My usage averages 100-200W 99% of the time (lights, heating, Wifi and cameras), about 10 times a day a 600W pump runs for a few minutes, 2-3 times a day a 1800W water heater, and every few weeks I use power tools (upto 2500W) for an hour or so. According to the battery lifetime diagram I would expect 700-800 cycles at 50% DOD and 1300-1400 cycles at 30% DOD, I try my best to stay above 50% DOD most of the time. So I would expect at least 3-4 years lifetime.
you might be running into one of the factory firmware charge bugs. The charge bug (there are two, but you only experience one depending on a setting) will chronically undercharge your battery, which won't do it any favours.
Would your patched firmware 73.00d fix that problem? Then I would try it.

Another reason I'd like some long term monitoring without a PC running 24/7 is to have a protocol to enforce warranty claims if the battery ages permaturely...

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 19:10

arnolde73 wrote:
Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 15:48
This is the one [ electronic regulator] thats built in...
I was thinking something much bigger than that. I'm thinking of a 300 x 400 mm PCB and a throttle actuator you'd never win an arm wrestle with. Granted, that was an 18 kW model.
Coulomb wrote:50 metres? I think that could be a large part of your problem. I'd go for at least 4 mm²; 2.5 mm² is too small for 5 kVA
Oh. I was thinking fixed wiring; I don't think you can get thicker than 2.5 mm² in an extension cord.
I'm not really worried about voltage sag and the most I'd ever use would be about 3kW. Might the long cable increase harmonics or other irregularities?
I think it could affect the stability of the combined system. The generator is attempting to regulate the output voltage, and the inverter is attempting to regulate the battery charge current, and they can interact in strange ways.
I could try a shorter one (10m) when the big genset is back from repair...
I think that would be an excellent thing to try, if it's convenient.
According to the battery lifetime diagram I would expect 700-800 cycles at 50% DOD and 1300-1400 cycles at 30% DOD, I try my best to stay above 50% DOD most of the time. So I would expect at least 3-4 years lifetime.
I think that's somewhat optimistic. You could expect 8-10 years (with reduced capacity at the end) from a lithium battery.
Coulomb wrote:... factory firmware charge bugs.
Would your patched firmware 73.00d fix that problem? Then I would try it.
Yes, sorry I should have made that explicit. The charge bugs are the reason the patches started in the first place. Then things seemed to get carried away from there... :|
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

arnolde73
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by arnolde73 » Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 19:37

coulomb wrote:
Thu, 22 Nov 2018, 19:10
I was thinking something much bigger than that. I'm thinking of a 300 x 400 mm PCB and a throttle actuator you'd never win an arm wrestle with. Granted, that was an 18 kW model.
Well, thats whats included in 6KVA china consumer generators... I guess as long as it suits 90% of people, it's good enough for the vendors.
Coulomb wrote:I don't think you can get thicker than 2.5 mm² in an extension cord.
Think again ;-) Here is 400V/64A/5x10mm2 - usually only seen at construction sites and events.
Image
But for testing I'd probably use fixed wiring first.
Coulomb wrote:I think that's somewhat optimistic. You could expect 8-10 years (with reduced capacity at the end) from a lithium battery.
Mmmh... that sure would explain things... I'll have to run a decent capacity test these days, I'd really be disappointed if my 2000€ batteries were shot already... then I'll treally kick my ass for not having upgraded the PV a lot earlier (I only just upgraded from 1.5kWp to 3kWp)

I might add that for the first 1.5 years I had the float and bulk charge voltages both set to 58.4v (the maximum)... I wonder how much damage that did... about 2 months ago I then changed the lower one to 55.2v or something like that.

[Moderator note: The part of this discussion that relates to AGM batteries is continued here. -- Weber]

arnolde73
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by arnolde73 » Sat, 24 Nov 2018, 20:47

I just tried flashing the upgrade (dsp_BC1_73.00d), followed the instructions here in this thread exactly, used a Win7 PC with a PL2303 USB-to-Serial adapter, tested it beforehand with Watchpower and it worked, exited watchpower completely (in taskbar), started the upgrade program, and it found the COM port (5), I clicked on update now, it asked "this will update, are you sure?" and I confirmed, then the process went to "not responding", after about 5 seconds the inverter clicked once, output seems to go off although it still displays 230V output, and stopped blinking green (I had also disconnected solar and removed the output load, but left the inverter power switch on), then after another 20 seconds or so the updater says "cannot connect to COM port!", and the inverter is stuck then and will not react to powering off, I had to disconnect the battery to get it back to running. Thank god it started up again normally. I tried the whole procedure twice.

After the first time I hadnt realized the inverter was frozen and I hooked up a terminal to the serial port and started receiving a crazy character (looks like a cursor-sized checkerboard pattern) about every second (possibly wrong baudrate, although terminal was set to 2400). No reaction to any keyboard input.

Any ideas? My current firmware U1 is 72.60 and interestingly now I also get a U2=04.10 (didnt get that when I tried last week).
My label says Effekta, AX-M 5000-48
Solar Charge 80A, Max open circuit 145V

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