PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Kimo-23
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kimo-23 » Wed, 15 Aug 2018, 01:58

coulomb wrote:
Tue, 14 Aug 2018, 20:59
Kimo-23 wrote:
Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 09:43
in the display where there is battery information, it gives me a voltage of 119 volts !!!!!
The LC Display of the inverter model we know shows the battery voltage as NN.N, so a maximum of 99.9 V. How did you see the 119 V figure?

Edit: "does not start" could mean doesn't invert, or nothing displays at all. In "fault mode" (when a fault code like 03 is showing), the inverter will never invert, but I believe you can still scroll through the display settings with the up and down buttons. What does the battery voltage say?

My recollection is that the 2-pin connector from the SCC is just as an alternative way to start the machine. So I don't think that should stop the inverter from displaying anything.
Use the rocker switch under the machine to start it.
i see the 119 figure in the battery information's the inverter start but with error
i scrolled through the display settings, the battery voltage say 119v :-(

[Moderator note: Coulomb's response to the above has been moved to the PIP repairs and hardware modifications topic.]

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by reecho » Wed, 15 Aug 2018, 09:50

coulomb wrote:
Mon, 13 Aug 2018, 22:19
reecho wrote:
Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 20:46
Is there a possibility for custom firmware for the 3024MSE?.
As a point of interest, what features were you hoping for in a patched firmware?
LifePo4 charging support for AVASS cells... :-). But it appears setting bulk and float to the same voltage might work.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 15 Aug 2018, 11:08

coulomb wrote:
Tue, 14 Aug 2018, 20:59
My recollection is that the 2-pin connector from the SCC is just as an alternative way to start the machine. So I don't think that should stop the inverter from displaying anything.
Use the rocker switch under the machine to start it.
Coulomb is correct. I just tried it.
Kimo-23 wrote:
Wed, 15 Aug 2018, 01:58
i see the 119 figure in the battery information's the inverter start but with error
i scrolled through the display settings, the battery voltage say 119v :-(
Was that with the SCC connected to the main board?

You still haven't told us your main and secondary version numbers, to the right of "U1" and "U2", as shown on the LCD by pushing the Up button.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kimo-23 » Thu, 16 Aug 2018, 00:24

weber wrote:
Wed, 15 Aug 2018, 11:08
coulomb wrote:
Tue, 14 Aug 2018, 20:59
My recollection is that the 2-pin connector from the SCC is just as an alternative way to start the machine. So I don't think that should stop the inverter from displaying anything.
Use the rocker switch under the machine to start it.
Coulomb is correct. I just tried it.
Kimo-23 wrote:
Wed, 15 Aug 2018, 01:58
i see the 119 figure in the battery information's the inverter start but with error
i scrolled through the display settings, the battery voltage say 119v :-(
Was that with the SCC connected to the main board?

You still haven't told us your main and secondary version numbers, to the right of "U1" and "U2", as shown on the LCD by pushing the Up button.
no, the SSC was not connected to the main board
u1 01 and u2 52
thanks

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Thu, 16 Aug 2018, 21:10

Kimo-23 wrote:
Tue, 14 Aug 2018, 18:27
... but the inverter does not start. I am desperate. is there any other way to remove the error 03
There is a small chance that resetting to default settings will fix the problem. Use Watchpower or ICC or other monitoring software, or send a REEP (REset EeProm) command with the usual CRC and carriage return.

Also, the U1 and U2 version numbers you sent seem wrong. Both have two two-digit numbers, e.g. U1 52 30 and U2 01 24. You won't see the U2 version number unless the SCC is connected and running with PV and daylight.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Fri, 17 Aug 2018, 06:57

I don't think WatchPower or ICC will send the undocumented REEP command, only the weaker documented PF command. The REEP command will have to be sent manually, using a terminal-emulator program.

The "usual CRC" for a REEP command cannot be typed as normal characters. In hexadecimal it is C6C2 (obtained as the XModem CRC from Lamert Bies CRC calculator).

Coulomb has a post here telling us how to manually send commands to a PIP, except it is about sending commands to change the AC output voltage.
viewtopic.php?p=66646#p66646

To send a REEP command, substitute the following key sequences for those Coulomb gives in that post.

For a correctly set up Tera Term:
shift+R    shift+E    shift+E    shift+P    right alt+shift+F    right alt+shift+B    enter

For RealTerm or AccessPort:
0x52 0x45 0x45 0x50 0xC6 0xC2 0x0D
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kimo-23 » Sat, 18 Aug 2018, 23:22

thanks to all of you because you are helping me. I'm not so practical about these things. can you explain to me how I can update / reset my opti-solar.thanks a thousand

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sun, 19 Aug 2018, 21:27

Kimo-23 wrote:
Sat, 18 Aug 2018, 23:22
can you explain to me how I can update / reset my opti-solar.
As Weber pointed out, the WatchPower program is unlikely to use the REEP command; it's more likely to use the PF command, which I believe won't do the job of resetting an internal flash value that is used to calibrate the battery voltage measurement.

So you need to send a command to the inverter through the RS-232 port. For this, you will need a computer and a USB to RS232 adapter, like the one in this post. In order to talk to the serial port, you need a terminal emulator program, such as TeraTerm, RealTerm, or AccessPort. These are all free programs, you can find them readily by Google or other search. TeraTerm is a little harder to set up, so I'd suggest one of the others. Follow instructions to set up the correct serial port, and set the speed to 2400 bps (bits per second). You should be able to type junk at it (say abcenter) and it should respond with something like (NAKss (this is a Negative Acknowledge, i.e. it didn't understand or accept the command. The "ss" are more CRCs).

Nearly all commands have to end with a pair of valid Cyclic Redundancy Characters (CRCs). Weber has calculated the CRCs for the REEP command in the above post. The CRCs are eight bit characters, so they're not necessarily "printable", and as luck would have it, neither of them is printable. So that's why you have to send the command in hexadecimal form. Sending abcenter in hexadecimal is 0x71 0x72 0x73 0x0D. The "0x" (zero, not Oh) is a common way to specify a character in hex; it comes from the C programming language. 0x71 happens to be the ASCII code for character 'a'; 0x0D happens to be the hex code for the "enter" character that terminates all commands.

So once you are set up, all you need to do is to paste
0x52 0x45 0x45 0x50 0xC6 0xC2 0x0D
into the terminal program, and the inverter should reply with
(ACK9
The response is an open parenthesis (indicating the start of a response), and "ACK" for positive acknowledge (the inverter understood and has accepted the command). The "9" is the first CRC character; the inverter adds CRCs to its responses as well. The second CRC character happens to be a space character, so it's not visible.

Hopefully that makes more sense to someone who's not experienced with these things. Give it a go, and ask more detailed questions if necessary.

Unfortunately, this command may only fix one of the two internal flash values that are used to calibrate the battery voltage reading (one is an offset, the other is a scale factor). And of course, your problem may be hardware, not flash values. But it would seem worth a try.

[ Edit: fixed mangled keyboard formatting ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kimo-23 » Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 05:30

Thank you very much
The inverter it should be attached ti the battery and PV ti do the Reset?
Thank you for your patience

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 07:09

Kimo-23 wrote:
Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 05:30
The inverter it should be attached ti the battery and PV ti do the Reset?
Battery yes, PV doesn't matter. [ Edit: it helps prevent shutdown after 30s; see next few posts. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kimo-23 » Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 20:50

hi
after attach the batteries and start the inverter, it shutdown after 15 second or less because it's in FAULT 03 and i can't comunicate with it and configure Realterm :x :x :x :x .
in this case how can i reset the firmware
thanks

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Tue, 21 Aug 2018, 08:11

Kimo-23 wrote:
Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 20:50
... it shutdown after 15 second or less because it's in FAULT 03 and i can't comunicate with it
That's a nuisance. [ Edit: but avoidable; see next post. ] But you should be able to configure RealTerm first, get the string ready so all you have to do is click the mouse button, then cycle the power on your inverter and send the already-queued command before it shuts down.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Tue, 21 Aug 2018, 09:55

I hadn't paid much attention to Fault Mode firmware code, since fortunately I haven't seen faults very often.

It seems that there is a 30 second timeout, so when in fault mode, the power supply will turn off if there is no charge source (AC input or PV). This is presumably to save the battery, though that reasoning (the manufacturer's, or more likely mine) seems dubious.

So you can make things less stressful for yourself by having either AC input present, or PV on.

In fact, you might be better off starting without a battery, something I thought was impossible except with very old hardware. It seems if you have no battery and the AC input is present, the machine might start up in line (bypass) mode. If your machine is made after about 2013, you may need PV input to actually power the electronics (processor, display, serial port). I didn't think that the SCC would be able to regulate a normal battery voltage with very little load.

So this presents another possible explanation for fault code 03. Perhaps the 119 V is real, and is different from the voltage of the battery terminals because your battery fuse (either a real 200 A fuse, or a roughly 200 A fusible link) is blown. Can you check your battery fuse? If you really have 119 V on the internal battery bus, this will be very bad for your capacitors (likely rated at 63 V), and for other components. If you have a utility power supply present (e.g. you can see a TX6 yellow and black "transformer", as shown in the photo in the linked post), then I strongly suggest you use AC input to power the inverter, and don't use PV input until you know that the battery fuse is OK.

If the battery fuse is blown, and it turns out that the 119 V is real, then you have likely blown up a lot of other components in the battery-side DC-DC. You described the original fault as the MPPT board having "burned out". This sounds like a high-current event, which may possibly have caused the 200 A battery fuse to blow. (The >200 A would probably have come from the battery, not the PV panels.)

I'm sorry that this possibility didn't occur to me earlier. Of course, I hope I'm wrong about burning up more components.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Wed, 22 Aug 2018, 12:05

coulomb wrote:
Tue, 21 Aug 2018, 09:55
Perhaps the 119 V is real, and is different from the voltage of the battery terminals because your battery fuse (either a real 200 A fuse, or a roughly 200 A fusible link) is blown.
Weber has pointed out to me that this is unlikely, since you have probably been using your inverter-charger with the battery as the only source of power (no AC in, and no PV connected). Is this the case?

Also, I failed to mention that the fuse I referred to above is an internal fuse, not something you have wired in yourself to protect your battery cables. It's on the main PCB near the battery terminals.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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LG Chem Resu 10 with PIP-4048MS

Post by djonexx » Sat, 25 Aug 2018, 14:12

Hello everyone,

I am following this forum for a long time now, and learned a lot in the process :)

I have a setup with 3 PIP4048MS inverters in a 3-phase configuration, 4.6 KWp panels distributed across all three and a lead-acid bank of 48V 400Ah, in 4s2p configuration. I'm running the beta 73.00c firmware. I have a connection to mains, and the purpose of the whole thing is to use as much solar energy as possible during the day and some of it during the night. In the summer months the system rarely switches back to mains so it fulfills its purpose.

However, after just a few hundred cycles one of the batteries from the bank died and now I'm considering moving on to a Lithium battery. I am currently looking at the LG Chem's RESU 10 LV (48V 189Ah). Leaving aside its need to communicate via CAN bus to the inverters for which there are solutions, will it work with the FL1_73.00c firmware? I see from specs the voltage range for the battery is between 42.0 and 58.8V, and the FL firmware has a minimum low cutoff voltage of 44V. The nominal battery voltage is 51V (16s configuration).

Thank you!

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Re: LG Chem Resu 10 with PIP-4048MS

Post by weber » Sat, 25 Aug 2018, 14:31

djonexx wrote:
Sat, 25 Aug 2018, 14:12
However, after just a few hundred cycles one of the batteries from the bank died and now I'm considering moving on to a Lithium battery. I am currently looking at the LG Chem's RESU 10 LV (48V 189Ah). Leaving aside its need to communicate via CAN bus to the inverters for which there are solutions, will it work with the FL1_73.00c firmware? I see from specs the voltage range for the battery is between 42.0 and 58.8V, and the FL firmware has a minimum low cutoff voltage of 44V. The nominal battery voltage is 51V (16s configuration).
Hi djonexx. Welcome. I assume you mean LF1_73.00c. No. You would not use that firmware with the LG Chem batteries. The LF1 firmware is only for batteries using LFP (Lithium Ferrous Phosphate) cells (15 or 16 in series). All other lithium chemistries should use the LC1 firmware, the same as is used for lead-acid. The LG Chems use NMC (lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt oxide) cells (14 in series).

You can think of the "LF" as standing for "Lithium Ferrous" (phosphate) and the "LC" as standing for either "Lithium Cobalt" (blends) or "Lead aCid". But the "L" also stands for "reLease" in both cases, as opposed to "B" for "Beta".
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Re: PIP-5048HS inverter

Post by 6mdx » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 11:21

Hi guys, my power went off today, seems the BMS shut down as the SCC was overcharging the batteries.

I turned of solar and inverter. Then diconnected the battery for about 30 sec.

No joy, on reconnection the pip5048 went thru start up then after about 1 mim started trying to put 30 plus amps into fully charged batteries (15s) Calb 180.

Seems the SCC has a problem.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers Robert

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 11:41

@6mdx We'd need a lot more information than you've given us, to have any chance of helping you. e.g. voltage settings, battery voltage, individual cell voltages, both rested and at given charge current.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by andys » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 12:33

I'm back, on my pet topic of the PIP's (apparently) terrible AC charger.

While charging off mains yesterday I noticed an appliance on the same household circuit buzzing loudly. It went away when I disconnected the PIP. It seems the PIP's charging circuit was sending lots of noise back up the AC lines through the house.

Seems to me the charger is probably some kind of power supply that is not "power factor corrected" like a modern Switchmode power supply is.

And this is why it is so hard for non-inverter petrol generators to give it the clean power it needs.

Any thoughts?

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by 6mdx » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 13:42

weber wrote:
Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 11:41
@6mdx We'd need a lot more information than you've given us, to have any chance of helping you. e.g. voltage settings, battery voltage, individual cell voltages, both rested and at given charge current.
Hey Weber thanks for fast respons. Just for starter been using this pip5048 on a 48v Pb battery for quite a while.

About 2 weeks ago replaced the Pb with 15s Calb 180 Ah, with Zever BMS. Been working fine untill this afternoon.

Set voltages 50.5 float, and 52.5 absoption

Now it will keep charging to any voltage.

I an discharging slowly with a few watts load on the inverter so cell voltages are changing. Will report individual cell volts when its settled.

3 Kw of panels in two strings each of 1500w, 2 s

Thanks

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 14:11

@6mdx Being a new battery, did you do a manual top-balance of all the cells on the first full charge? e.g. with a headlight bulb and some alligator clips, to pull down the high cells? If you didn't, then it could be just one cell going high before the others, that is causing your BMS to trip off.

You seem to be saying that the PIP is not regulating the voltage. It's quite common for them to overshoot the absorb voltage setting by a volt or more, lasting 30 seconds or more. Could it just be that? With the BMS tripping off before it gets a chance to come back from the overshoot?

What are your U1 and U2 firmware version numbers?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by 6mdx » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 07:12

Weber, the firmware versions are
U1 34 10
U2 06 09
The cells were to balanced before instalation by supplier

I dont think this is a battery problem, but SCC goes runaway... I saw 56 odd volts yesterday and it was still charging at 40 Amps.

I took some pics which i will upload once i get them on this device. They show BMS data on cell voltages etc.

Cheers Robert

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 07:19

@6mdx It does sound like a hardware failure in the SCC. Have you tried charging the batteries from AC-only (either the grid or a generator) using the PIP? Does that work as it should?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 07:36

Assuming it charges just fine from AC alone, here's one hypothesis:
A switching device in the SCC has failed short-circuit, so that the PV array is connected directly to the battery. In this case, you would expect the PV input voltage (which can be viewed on the LCD) to be only a fraction of a volt above the battery voltage.

Here's another (less likely) hypothesis:
The SCC might be measuring the battery voltage wrong. You could look at the response to a QPIGS command as described on pages 4 and 5 of this manual: uploads/293/HS_MS_MSX_RS232_Protocol_20 ... pgrade.pdf
Notice, on page 5, that there are separate values for "Battery voltage" and "Battery voltage from SCC".

BTW, Are you sure that's U1 34 10 and not U1 74 10?
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by 6mdx » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 08:10

Weber, the battery voltage at 50.5 PV at 51.5, charging at 35 amps atm.

Yes U1 is 34 10, remember this is 5048 so thats why weird number.

No utility atm but will try soon

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