PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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mirceaalex001
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 24 May 2018, 14:27

coulomb wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 09:08
mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35
is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
There are only half a dozen commands that the main processor sends to the SCC, and none of them affect the minimum PV voltage, at least not directly.

So you'd have to patch the SCC code. Possible, but a lot of work. Why do you want this?
This may be a way to fix my problem , since the voltage that keeps the scc on in the night is like only two volts plus the batteries , with a 55vdc setting , it may cut the scc.. But if is something too hard , i will try another fix . Thank you !

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 24 May 2018, 14:34

weber wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 10:20
mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35
Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
What do you mean by the min solar voltage? What makes you think it can go down to 40 volts? My understanding is that the minimum voltage on the solar inputs that the PIP's SCC can maximum-power-point-track, is about 1.5 volts above whatever the battery voltage happens to be at the time.
My problem is that at night , the scc stays on , because somehow i get voltage on the scc coils ( driver 1 , driver 2 ) And i need a setting that will cut scc at higher voltage ( i have like 2volts + the battery voltage all the time on the pv input ,when the scc relay is connected ).If i change charging settings at night , and the relay disengage , evreything is ok untill next morning (The pv input voltage disapear )

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Revlac » Thu, 24 May 2018, 18:01

I don't think changing the minimum solar voltage (if possible) would make any difference to the situation.
I still think there may be a setting's conflict that tells the the relay drivers to stay on. (expecting soler power to still be available)
That is the situation I had, I also had an fault code on the screen.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Fri, 25 May 2018, 00:01

Revlac wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 18:01
I don't think changing the minimum solar voltage (if possible) would make any difference to the situation.
I still think there may be a setting's conflict that tells the the relay drivers to stay on. (expecting soler power to still be available)
That is the situation I had, I also had an fault code on the screen.
I don`t have any fault code , every thing seems to work as it should , except i got voltage on the pv input from batteries , when the relay is on .

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by PurePower » Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07

weber wrote:
Mon, 07 May 2018, 18:29
Beta Version of Patched Firmware 73.00c

This is the third version of our patched firmware based on factory firmware version 73.00. This patched firmware has all the same patches as 73.00b and earlier patched firmwares, including Dynamic Current Control and AussieView™. This includes fixing the infamous premature float bugs.

In addition, 73.00c makes the following improvements/bug fixes:

1. We fixed the bug where, after changing a setting once, you could not change it again without first pressing the up and down buttons. We also fixed the bug where, while changing a setting, you could not go more than 135 steps up or 120 steps down. This affected the Absorb time setting [32]. These were pointed out by user OomD on the South African Power Forum.

2. In versions 72.70c and 73.00a/b we attempted unsuccessfully to improve the accuracy of low current readings by the simple expedient of subtracting 1 amp to account for losses. But forum-contributor @sinux, pointed out that the losses during AC Charging are much less than 1 amp and so we had in fact made AC charge current readings less accurate.

In this version (73.00c) we have improved the accuracy of all charge and discharge current readings, by using more complicated formulae. A detailed description can be found near the end of the Dynamic Current Control manual, as linked above. These changes do not affect the relationship between requested currents and actual currents, only between actual currents and displayed or reported currents.


Note: This firmware is only suitable for the 48 V models with a single low-voltage MPPT and a power factor of 0.8 (4 kW / 5 kVA), not those with dual or triple MPPTs or a power factor of 1.0 (5 kW / 5 kVA), and not those with a maximum PV array open circuit voltage greater than 145 V DC.

For lithium ferrous phosphate (LFP) (16S or 15S)
dsp_BF1_73.00c.zip


For lead acid (24S), lithium cobalt-blends (LCO, NMC, NCM, NCA) (14S), and lithium titanate (LTO) (21S)
dsp_BC1_73.00c.zip


For reflashing instructions see the 72.70b reflashing instructions, but ignore the zip files there.
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:07

PurePower wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kurnol » Fri, 25 May 2018, 10:38

Good afternoon all,

Been running a second 4048 in parallel for a couple of months now, a couple of minor issues I have noticed.

Since connecting the second unit the pv input is not recording anymore in watchpower.
Up until 2 weeks ago my system was 3kw of panels connected to the master unit, parallel connections for the batteries and ac output between master and slave.
While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.

2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels but this time to the slave unit, when I fired them both back up the slave unit was constantly charging the batteries at around 10 amps but the master seemed to pulse with its charging, that is the charge light would illuminate the switch off, then back on etc.

I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this, but I was following an online drawing I saw with separate banks connected to different inverters?

Anybody else experienced this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Fri, 25 May 2018, 21:34

weber wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:07
PurePower wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.
Coulomb just brought this to my attention:
Ebrsa on the South Africa Power Forum: http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1997-axpe ... -on-delay/
It may have nothing to do with the beta 73.00c firmware. But it's only fair to let you know. And so we'll be keeping it beta for a while yet.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sat, 26 May 2018, 07:22

Kurnol wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 10:38
While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.
That does seem to be the most likely explanation.
2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels ... is the charge light would illuminate the[n] switch off, then back on etc.
Charging while a master takes a different path through the code compared to charging as a slave, so this is entirely possible, if the battery was nearing full. I assume you realise that when bulk or absorb charging, the LED flashes on and off with a period of about a second. Only in the float stage does the charge LED stay on solid.
I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this
This will waste about half the panels on good solar days, since each inverter's SCC is only capable of delivering some 3 kW. Leave them split as they are now.
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kurnol » Sat, 26 May 2018, 16:23

coulomb wrote:
Sat, 26 May 2018, 07:22
Kurnol wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 10:38
While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.
That does seem to be the most likely explanation.
Tested out today, still not showing a reading with either selected.
2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels ... is the charge light would illuminate the[n] switch off, then back on etc.
Charging while a master takes a different path through the code compared to charging as a slave, so this is entirely possible, if the battery was nearing full. I assume you realise that when bulk or absorb charging, the LED flashes on and off with a period of about a second. Only in the float stage does the charge LED stay on solid.
While watching today and all seemed ok until the end of daylight, which is when I would have noticed the problem before. The slave was charging at 5 amps (float stage) and the master was switching on/off charging. The PV input for the master was around 100w, where as the slave was 350w.

I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this
This will waste about half the panels on good solar days, since each inverter's SCC is only capable of delivering some 3 kW. Leave them split as they are now.

Thanks I will leave it the way it is.
Last edited by weber on Sat, 26 May 2018, 16:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote formatting

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by PurePower » Mon, 28 May 2018, 04:29

weber wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 21:34
weber wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:07
PurePower wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.
Coulomb just brought this to my attention:
Ebrsa on the South Africa Power Forum: http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1997-axpe ... -on-delay/
It may have nothing to do with the beta 73.00c firmware. But it's only fair to let you know. And so we'll be keeping it beta for a while yet.
Thanks, but I don't think it's firmware related. Lets watch that topic and take it from there.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by frisca » Tue, 29 May 2018, 19:57

Hello,

I have purchased a 4KVa/5kW inverter last year and hooked it up with 8x140Ah AGM batteries. All well (at first), yet after changing 6 of the 8 batteries (warranty), I decided to get rid of them and purchased a 5kWh LFP battery.
Believing that it is as simple as changing the voltage and it would work, I soon got face to face with reality.
After reading this forum, I updated the firmware to 73b without any problems (Many thx for that!). Initially it looked good, yet I realize now that the loading is still problematic and would require your help.

Regardless of the volatege that I set the invertor to stop charging at, the BMS of the battery kicks in and stops the charge displaying a "cell over max voltage" error. After reading on this forum all the info I was able to assimilate, I now believe that the problem is related to the "float" part of the charging process and to the fact that the inverter is not really stopping the voltage at the set level. Right now, the fload is set to 52V, down from the 52.7V that came as default after I updated the firmare.

This is the inverter:Image

This is the battery: Image

And the URL to the battery website: https://alpha-ess.com/Web/ProductBatter ... 722d0678ad

Is there any way that you know of that I can get the inverter to connect to the battery BMS? If so, please help :|
I am sorry if this question was asked before here. I was unable to find it.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by simat » Tue, 29 May 2018, 23:48

frisca wrote:
Tue, 29 May 2018, 19:57

Regardless of the volatege that I set the invertor to stop charging at, the BMS of the battery kicks in and stops the charge displaying a "cell over max voltage" error. After reading on this forum all the info I was able to assimilate, I now believe that the problem is related to the "float" part of the charging process and to the fact that the inverter is not really stopping the voltage at the set level. Right now, the fload is set to 52V, down from the 52.7V that came as default after I updated the firmare.
From the voltage range in the datasheet of 46-54V, I would say that this battery is 15 cells in series, can you ask the supplier to confirm this? It this case a float voltage of 52V is too high. I would try a CV/bulk voltage of 51.8V (3.45v/cell) and float voltage of 50.2V (3.35V/cell). You might have to set the CV/bulk voltage higher to get the balancing circuitry working.

Simon
Off-Grid with LFP (LiFePO4) battery, battery Installed April 2013
32x90Ah Winston cells 4p8s (24V), 4kW Latronics Inverter, 1160W of Solar Panels
Homemade MPPT controller, BMS https://github.com/simat/BatteryMonitor

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by frisca » Wed, 30 May 2018, 16:31

simat wrote:
Tue, 29 May 2018, 23:48

From the voltage range in the datasheet of 46-54V, I would say that this battery is 15 cells in series, can you ask the supplier to confirm this? It this case a float voltage of 52V is too high. I would try a CV/bulk voltage of 51.8V (3.45v/cell) and float voltage of 50.2V (3.35V/cell). You might have to set the CV/bulk voltage higher to get the balancing circuitry working.

Simon
Many thanks! I wrote them for information and will try to set your recommended voltages. Nice and sunny in Europe right now and I should have an answer within hours. Will write back with an update in case others encounter the same issue.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by curasun » Thu, 31 May 2018, 00:54

Hello guys.
One Quick question.
Which NTC can I use as a external battery temperature sensor for my MPPsolar PCM60x charge controller?

Thx in advance.
R.G.Specht
Dutch Caribbean.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by ionutd » Tue, 05 Jun 2018, 06:17

Hi guys,
I have a PIP-4048 and i want to buy 2 more to connect in series and have a 3 phase system, my setup will have 27 panels , 9 orietantion east, 9 west and 9 south
and will share the same battery.
Now i have some questions regarding the setup i want to do :)
- in a 3 phase system its the voltage between 2 phases 400v ? i want to run a heating pump that has 3 phase connection.
- in case of one of the inverts doesn't have so much solar energy can take the extra energy from the other two trough battery ?
Thanks
IonutD

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Tue, 05 Jun 2018, 06:50

ionutd wrote:
Tue, 05 Jun 2018, 06:17
... my setup will have 27 panels , 9 orietantion east, 9 west and 9 south
and will share the same battery.
Hopefully you live in the northern hemisphere, or your south facing panels will see a lot of shade :|
PIPs in parallel / 3-phase are required to share the same battery.
- in a 3 phase system its the voltage between 2 phases 400v ?
Yes. 230 V × √3 = 398 V.
- in case of one of the inverts doesn't have so much solar energy can take the extra energy from the other two t[h]rough battery ?
Yes, they all draw their power from the same battery, so it doesn't matter which machine charges the battery.
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by dan.fador » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 04:11

Hello,
I need some help with my configuration i just mounted a PIP4048MS 0.8 (2018) whit two series Tesla Model S modules. I setup param 5 to USE and a I set:
param 12 at 44
param 13 at 48
param 26 at 48
param 27 at 48
param 29 at 40

My problem is param 12, because I would like to set them to 41 but the minimum value is 44. With modified firmware can I set the 12 param to 41?

Thank you !

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 07:14

dan.fador wrote:
Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 04:11
I just mounted a PIP4048MS 0.8 (2018) whit two series Tesla Model S modules.
Ah. My understanding is that Tesla modules are 6S of a 3.75 V (nominal) chemistry. So two modules in series is 12S. The inverters and therefore our patched firmware works best with 16S or 15S LFP, 24S lead acid, or 14S of most lithium chemistries. So 12S is almost 15% short.

12S x 3.75 is only 45 V. It's not obvious that you can drive full power from such a low voltage. Lower voltage means higher current in the battery and battery-to-bus full bridges.
My problem is param 12, because I would like to set them to 41 but the minimum value is 44. With modified firmware can I set the 12 param to 41?
From the AussieView™ manual (accessible from the index in the first post of this topic):
b2u [12] ... V  Battery to utility voltage (lower threshold) (volts)
                (when out = Sbu or SoL)
                LC: 44 to 51 in steps of 1 (46 default)
                LF: 46 to 53 in steps of 1 (48 default)
You'd be using the LC version, since it is the lower voltage version of the two versions of patched firmware. So you'd still be restricted to 44 V minimum. The LF version has 46 V minimum, an even worse fit for your application.

Weber and I have no plans for another version of patched firmware, and really no desire to make more work for ourselves if there is no great call for it.

It seems to me that you'd be better off using one third of another Tesla module to get the battery voltage higher, where it is compatible with the hardware.

[ Edit: linked to the AussieView™ manual ]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 07:51

coulomb wrote:
Mon, 11 Jun 2018, 07:14
It's not obvious that you can drive full power from such a low voltage.
Further thoughts on that. In battery mode, the "bus" voltage (which the inverter runs from) is about 8x the battery voltage (less some voltage drops), because the high frequency transformer seems to have a turns ratio of 1:8. To generate 230 VAC, you need of the order of 230 × √2 = 325 VDC, call it 335 VDC with IGBT and inductor voltage drops (absolute bare minimum, it may need more). Again ignoring losses, that means you'd need at least 335/8 = 42 VDC at the battery side full bridge. With various voltage drops in the MOSFETs, cables, PCB tracks etc, I'd guess that it's not practical to run the inverter at less than 44 VDC.

Consider that a lead acid battery (which these inverters were obviously designed for) only have a rested terminal voltage of 48.0 V when near 0% SOC, and might sag to perhaps 44 VDC (depending on many factors) under load. A 12 V car battery is really a 12.6 V battery; that's why 12AU7 valves (audio/radio tubes) are designed to run at a filament voltage of 12.6 V (and 6V6 valves are designed for 6.3 V filament voltage). That's what you typically get from a 6S (nominal 12 V) or 3S (nominal 6 V) lead acid battery.

[ Edit: so the PIP-4048 inverter is really designed for a 12.6 x 4 = 50.4 V battery. "48 volts" is based on two volts per lead acid cell, a nice round number. ]
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by dan.fador » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 13:11

Hi coulomb and thank you very much for your very complete answer. If I understood well the solution can be two:
1. Brake the tesla module and create (buying 18650 frame) a new configuration adding 74 cells for each module and get a total of 14S
2. Buy a new tesla module and put 3 modules in series anc get 18S x 3,75V = 67,5. But pip4048 is able to charge 18s configuration? I will need in this case: cutoff (low) voltage = 59,4 (3,3 x18) and stop charging at 73,8V (4,1 * 18).

Thank you very much for your help !
Last edited by dan.fador on Wed, 13 Jun 2018, 04:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Tue, 12 Jun 2018, 22:49

The PIPs certainly can't handle 18S. It would have been great for DIYers if each Tesla battery module was 7S instead of 6S, a much more standard 24ish volts.
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Emblema » Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 22:25

Hi all,

I have a couple of problem with my pip4048:

1)

For about a month, I have a problem, when it rains the panels get wet and nothing happens, they continue to work well. The morning after, when the sunlight starts the panels do not start, ie the inverter reads the voltage of the panels but not them let's start in production when the sun dries well everything then makes them leave.

What could it be like?

2)

For about ten days, the batteries are no longer in floating mode but remain in CV mode.
Could it be connected to problem 1?
How can I solve?

http://pv4kw.ddns.net (For who want to see real-time)



15 panels IBC SOLAR PolySol 265W ZX4 Inverter 5KVA (MPP Solar pip4048 model november 2016 Fw 72.90 - 4.12), 8 batteries AGM 400AH (48V)


If anybody help me...

Thanks a lot

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by charliefd » Tue, 19 Jun 2018, 01:00

Joining in with a 3 phase setup using 3 x EFFEKTA AX-M 48V 5000VA and a couple of PYLONTECH 'US2000 plus' lifepo4 managed battery modules ( 2 x 50Ah)

Many thanks for the great effort to reverse engineer and improve the firmware on these inverters! I'll read some more and I will flash the latest firmware as soon as I know a bit more about ... all of this :)

If there's any info I can contribute about the inverters (they are brand new but 0.8PF version!) let me know.

For now (4 days) they seem to do their job but it is obvious they are a poor match to the pylontech battery bank. I use the voltages for charging (bulk/float) that I found in some victron documentation for interfacing with my bateries: 53.2V bulk charge and 53.0v floating. I want to maximize solar use so I only charge solar and tuned the voltages for going to utilities and back to various voltages from very conservative initially to foolish values that made the BMS cut the batteries off last night (at least I suppose the BMS did this). I'm running today with 47V and 50V respectively.

There is very poor matching on voltage measuring between the 3 units: 0.4V difference between highest and lowest one, with the one in the middle being 0.1V lower than the top value. The difference seems to be constant over a wide battery voltage and current levels. Is there any calibration that can be made on these?

Next step is to plug in Raspberry PI running ICC to monitor and log both the inverters and the batteries.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by PurePower » Tue, 19 Jun 2018, 03:14

Emblema wrote:
Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 22:25

15 panels IBC SOLAR PolySol 265W ZX4 Inverter 5KVA (MPP Solar pip4048 model november 2016 Fw 72.90 - 4.12), 8 batteries AGM 400AH (48V)


If anybody help me...

Thanks a lot
Out of interest, did you install the SCC Firmware 4.12 yourself?

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