PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

non-EV Solar, Wind and other renewable power sources
non-EV batteries and other energy storage stuff
Forum rules
Important!
This forum is for discussion of Non-EV matters.
mirceaalex001
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:19
Real Name: Alex

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Sun, 20 May 2018, 17:13

or the scc?
Oh , and it seems that i find another bug // When pv panels are connected , in the normal way , when a heavy load occurred , the scc , disconnect the panels, and then reconnect them , but now , is making some strange relay noises and the pv panels stays connected , even when heavy load punches .

stuart
Noobie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:30
Real Name: Stuart

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by stuart » Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:54

Hi
I have owned two PIP-4048MS for about 5 years and just connected them together. (They were the first of the parallel version) However I purchased them a few months apart and I have an error 71 / NE flashing when starting. They are versions 52.20 and 52.25. After getting nowhere with manufacture support I thought I would look for help elsewhere. Now I have found this forum and am a little overwhelmed with information.
Where do I start?
Thanks in advance.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Mon, 21 May 2018, 11:10

stuart wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:54
Hi
I have owned two PIP-4048MS for about 5 years and just connected them together. (They were the first of the parallel version) However I purchased them a few months apart and I have an error 71 / NE flashing when starting. They are versions 52.20 and 52.25. After getting nowhere with manufacture support I thought I would look for help elsewhere. Now I have found this forum and am a little overwhelmed with information.
Where do I start?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Stuart,

That error message just means that the firmware versions don't match. Given that your PIPs are so old, the safest way to get them to parallel would probably be to upgrade them both to 52.30 which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274

Let us know if you need help with that.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

data
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:03

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data » Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:08

Dear readers,

where can I order a serial/RS232 module for the inverter?
Mine has the USB-only board...

Best Regards,

data

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:04

data wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:08
where can I order a serial/RS232 module for the inverter?
We mention Jaycar for the serial to RS-232 board. However, see below.
Mine has the USB-only board...
Ah. As far as I know, no models that have the USB-only board can use the firmware (factory or patched) found on this site. I don't understand how the USB port works, but if you can update firmware through the USB port, then you won't need an RS232 to USB adapter.

Perhaps the issue is merely that USB ports tend to appear as virtual com ports whose number part is 10 or more, e.g. COM12. You might be able to use Windows' Device Manager to re-assign the virtual COM port to something between COM1 and COM9.

What model of inverter-charger do you have?
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

mirceaalex001
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:19
Real Name: Alex

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:18

But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.
I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.

Since the SCC stays off after forcing the relay off once, it suggests that the SCC isn't getting power from the PV input. But it's not certain, because relays require a lot more voltage (and hence power) to pull in than to hold their held-in position. If you have leakage across your PV switch, it might be enough power to hold the relays in, but not enough to pull them in once off.

You could prove that one way or the other by disconnecting one or both wires to the PV input; if there is no significant leakage across your PV switch, this should make no difference. Do this at the end of a day before forcing off the relays, of course.
Yes , after i have opened the case of the inverter and measured , it seems that the coils stays on ( driver 1 or driver 2 ) as they are noted on the board .

data
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:03

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data » Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:58

coulomb:
We have a couple of 2424MSD here. Reason for swapping out the serial board is, that it is crap.

At the moment, we have them connected each to an OrangePi zero, running Armbian and use SolPipLog in xvfb in order to get the statistics into emoncms.
Instead I would prefer to use just an ESP8266 / wemos d1 mini / nodemcu connected to the serial port and running MQTT. That way, I could use
almost any home-automation software (domoticz, iobroker, etc) in addition to emoncms and send also commands to the inverter.

From what we have seen, the USB-Module uses the same connection as the serial modules. In fact, that the inverter has a serial port conected to this
really crappy Cypress serial<->USB <-> virtual serial bridge. God, I hate them for this design decision. One option would be to just replace the internal
module with an ESP8266 but I would lose my dry-contact.

See https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/pv-in ... s3240.html
Last edited by data on Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:10

data wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 20:58
We have a couple of 2424MSD here. Reason for swapping out the serial board is, that it is crap.
Oh. My misunderstanding then. Sorry.

I thought you could get the serial boards, and other spares, from MPP Solar.
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

data
Noobie
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon, 21 May 2018, 17:03

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by data » Mon, 21 May 2018, 21:28

I have already asked them, but they didn't have any to sell.

stuart
Noobie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon, 21 May 2018, 10:30
Real Name: Stuart

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by stuart » Tue, 22 May 2018, 06:58

weber wrote:
Mon, 21 May 2018, 11:10
Hi Stuart,

That error message just means that the firmware versions don't match. Given that your PIPs are so old, the safest way to get them to parallel would probably be to upgrade them both to 52.30 which can be found here:
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274

Let us know if you need help with that.
Just reporting back. With a big smile on my face I want to thank you for your help with this. I downloaded the 52.30 update files. Ran the update program and guess what. It did what it should and updated. About 8min later I updated the second unit and hooked up the parallel cables and bingo. It just worked! No more error 71 firmware version error.

Given I have an older units would this be the best/latest update I can load?

Thanks again for your help.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Tue, 22 May 2018, 09:52

stuart wrote:
Tue, 22 May 2018, 06:58
Just reporting back. With a big smile on my face I want to thank you for your help with this. I downloaded the 52.30 update files. Ran the update program and guess what. It did what it should and updated. About 8min later I updated the second unit and hooked up the parallel cables and bingo. It just worked! No more error 71 firmware version error.

Given I have an older units would this be the best/latest update I can load?

Thanks again for your help.
That's great to hear, Stuart.

52.30 was merely the safest firmware for you. It does not correct the premature-float bug. Although I can't guarantee it will work with your machines, the best and latest firmware at the time of writing is 73.00c which can be found here. The latest can always be found via the Firmware section of the index post.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Ibiza
Noobie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 06 Jan 2018, 14:34

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ibiza » Wed, 23 May 2018, 17:21

Hi Coulomb/Weber, I installed the latest version (BC1 73 00c)of your upgrade and I don't have any issue. It works perfectly. I don't need to tall you how grateful I am ( other users did it and I agree with them). The reason for this post is : I found very useful feature (besides others) which displayed the temperature of the inverter(s). Since I am running ICC monitoring softer it would be very useful to have the temp. displayed ,not on the LCD only but on the laptop. I spoke to the creator of the ICC about using the temp data in his software. He says if you want to" return the temp in the string what the inverter send back" he could use it do display multi inverters temp. It would be useful for multi inverter users Like me to have everything on one screen. As the upgrades of the firmware are your intellectual properties we are asking for your help, but wouldn't mind if you disagree with that.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 23 May 2018, 18:00

Thanks Ibiza. The temperature can be obtained via Voltronics' undocumented Q1 command.
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p60229
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Ibiza
Noobie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 06 Jan 2018, 14:34

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Ibiza » Wed, 23 May 2018, 18:31

Thanks Weber for your help. I will let you know how the testing is going.

mirceaalex001
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:19
Real Name: Alex

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35

Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3552
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Thu, 24 May 2018, 09:08

mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35
is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
There are only half a dozen commands that the main processor sends to the SCC, and none of them affect the minimum PV voltage, at least not directly.

So you'd have to patch the SCC code. Possible, but a lot of work. Why do you want this?
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Thu, 24 May 2018, 10:20

mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35
Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
What do you mean by the min solar voltage? What makes you think it can go down to 40 volts? My understanding is that the minimum voltage on the solar inputs that the PIP's SCC can maximum-power-point-track, is about 1.5 volts above whatever the battery voltage happens to be at the time.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

mirceaalex001
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:19
Real Name: Alex

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 24 May 2018, 14:27

coulomb wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 09:08
mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35
is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
There are only half a dozen commands that the main processor sends to the SCC, and none of them affect the minimum PV voltage, at least not directly.

So you'd have to patch the SCC code. Possible, but a lot of work. Why do you want this?
This may be a way to fix my problem , since the voltage that keeps the scc on in the night is like only two volts plus the batteries , with a 55vdc setting , it may cut the scc.. But if is something too hard , i will try another fix . Thank you !

mirceaalex001
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:19
Real Name: Alex

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Thu, 24 May 2018, 14:34

weber wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 10:20
mirceaalex001 wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 04:35
Hello again guys, is there any way to change the min.solar voltage from 40 vdc to 55 vdc?
What do you mean by the min solar voltage? What makes you think it can go down to 40 volts? My understanding is that the minimum voltage on the solar inputs that the PIP's SCC can maximum-power-point-track, is about 1.5 volts above whatever the battery voltage happens to be at the time.
My problem is that at night , the scc stays on , because somehow i get voltage on the scc coils ( driver 1 , driver 2 ) And i need a setting that will cut scc at higher voltage ( i have like 2volts + the battery voltage all the time on the pv input ,when the scc relay is connected ).If i change charging settings at night , and the relay disengage , evreything is ok untill next morning (The pv input voltage disapear )

Revlac
Noobie
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat, 19 Aug 2017, 19:43
Real Name: Aaron
Location: Rosewood

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Revlac » Thu, 24 May 2018, 18:01

I don't think changing the minimum solar voltage (if possible) would make any difference to the situation.
I still think there may be a setting's conflict that tells the the relay drivers to stay on. (expecting soler power to still be available)
That is the situation I had, I also had an fault code on the screen.

mirceaalex001
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:19
Real Name: Alex

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by mirceaalex001 » Fri, 25 May 2018, 00:01

Revlac wrote:
Thu, 24 May 2018, 18:01
I don't think changing the minimum solar voltage (if possible) would make any difference to the situation.
I still think there may be a setting's conflict that tells the the relay drivers to stay on. (expecting soler power to still be available)
That is the situation I had, I also had an fault code on the screen.
I don`t have any fault code , every thing seems to work as it should , except i got voltage on the pv input from batteries , when the relay is on .

PurePower
Noobie
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 00:04
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by PurePower » Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07

weber wrote:
Mon, 07 May 2018, 18:29
Beta Version of Patched Firmware 73.00c

This is the third version of our patched firmware based on factory firmware version 73.00. This patched firmware has all the same patches as 73.00b and earlier patched firmwares, including Dynamic Current Control and AussieView™. This includes fixing the infamous premature float bugs.

In addition, 73.00c makes the following improvements/bug fixes:

1. We fixed the bug where, after changing a setting once, you could not change it again without first pressing the up and down buttons. We also fixed the bug where, while changing a setting, you could not go more than 135 steps up or 120 steps down. This affected the Absorb time setting [32]. These were pointed out by user OomD on the South African Power Forum.

2. In versions 72.70c and 73.00a/b we attempted unsuccessfully to improve the accuracy of low current readings by the simple expedient of subtracting 1 amp to account for losses. But forum-contributor @sinux, pointed out that the losses during AC Charging are much less than 1 amp and so we had in fact made AC charge current readings less accurate.

In this version (73.00c) we have improved the accuracy of all charge and discharge current readings, by using more complicated formulae. A detailed description can be found near the end of the Dynamic Current Control manual, as linked above. These changes do not affect the relationship between requested currents and actual currents, only between actual currents and displayed or reported currents.


Note: This firmware is only suitable for the 48 V models with a single low-voltage MPPT and a power factor of 0.8 (4 kW / 5 kVA), not those with dual or triple MPPTs or a power factor of 1.0 (5 kW / 5 kVA), and not those with a maximum PV array open circuit voltage greater than 145 V DC.

For lithium ferrous phosphate (LFP) (16S or 15S)
dsp_BF1_73.00c.zip


For lead acid (24S), lithium cobalt-blends (LCO, NMC, NCM, NCA) (14S), and lithium titanate (LTO) (21S)
dsp_BC1_73.00c.zip


For reflashing instructions see the 72.70b reflashing instructions, but ignore the zip files there.
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:07

PurePower wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Kurnol
Noobie
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat, 03 Feb 2018, 13:12

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by Kurnol » Fri, 25 May 2018, 10:38

Good afternoon all,

Been running a second 4048 in parallel for a couple of months now, a couple of minor issues I have noticed.

Since connecting the second unit the pv input is not recording anymore in watchpower.
Up until 2 weeks ago my system was 3kw of panels connected to the master unit, parallel connections for the batteries and ac output between master and slave.
While typing this I wonder if this problem could be I had the slave highlighted in watchpower.

2 weeks ago I connected another 3kw of panels but this time to the slave unit, when I fired them both back up the slave unit was constantly charging the batteries at around 10 amps but the master seemed to pulse with its charging, that is the charge light would illuminate the switch off, then back on etc.

I assume connecting all 6kw to the master will fix this, but I was following an online drawing I saw with separate banks connected to different inverters?

Anybody else experienced this?

Thanks in advance for any info.

User avatar
weber
Site Admin
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri, 23 Jan 2009, 17:27
Real Name: Dave Keenan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Fri, 25 May 2018, 21:34

weber wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 07:07
PurePower wrote:
Fri, 25 May 2018, 04:07
Hows the testing of this beta firmware going? Any issues? Good for release?
No issues. It's good to go. We just need to get around to updating the version number to indicate release instead of beta.
Coulomb just brought this to my attention:
Ebrsa on the South Africa Power Forum: http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1997-axpe ... -on-delay/
It may have nothing to do with the beta 73.00c firmware. But it's only fair to let you know. And so we'll be keeping it beta for a while yet.
One of the fathers of MeXy the electric MX-5, along with Coulomb and Newton (Jeff Owen).

Post Reply