PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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coulomb
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 14:59

Solar Junky wrote: with that voltage Looks like maybe 15s lifepo4

I'd say more likely 14S of 3.7 V nominal cells; 3.7 x 14 = 51.8 V.

Edit: So that would be non-LiFePO₄ lithium ion chemistry.
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 04:01, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by solamahn » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 15:02

4048msd has so far proven itself to be reliable. Installing a 4048mst with 27 x 300w panels next week
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Post by andys » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 15:13

coulomb wrote: I'd say more likely 14S of 3.7 V nominal cells; 3.7 x 14 = 51.8 V.


Ah, you're probably right. They're claiming good longevity due to proprietary manufacturing stuff. Do you have any opinions on that, versus the big LiFePO4 cells?

I'm inclined to go with what I know and what works, but their box is attractive from a "clean packaged" perspective.

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 15:22

This is getting quite off-topic. Please continue on a new thread if discussing the LG battery. I'll make this the last post of mine on this subject.
andys wrote: I'm following with the interest the upcoming LG Chem 9.8kWh 48V pack which should have a wholesale ex-GST price of around $6k.

Rainbow power have the 9.8 kWh model at AU$9565, including retail markup, "Australia tax" and GST, plus freight. "Special order". They also have the 3.3 kWh model at just over half that price.

80% down this page:

http://www.rpc.com.au/catalog/deep-cycl ... =3&sort=4a

I note from the energy brochure at
http://www.lgchem.com/upload/file/produ ... ENG[0].pdf
(sorry, I don't know how to encode the [0] part as a working link)
that they have "400 V" models as well. You can work out from the nominal power and the fact that they use 63 Ah cells that the batteries in these are actually 30S (7.0 kWh model) and 42S (9.8 kWh model) of 3.7 V cells (so 111 V and 155.4 V nominal for the respective models). The output voltage is quoted over a very wide range [ Edit: but actually, that's no wider (1.4:1) then the 48 V models ]. So I'd guess these models have a DC/DC converter in them, boosting the battery to a voltage that a typical long string grid interactive inverter can use, because they look like a long string of solar panels.

Edit: the chemistry is likely NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide):
LG Chem, 3M to start using nickel-manganese-cobalt oxide cathode materials . (Thanks Weber for finding this article.)

I have no opinion on the NMC chemistry, except that none of the other chemistries is as inherently safe as LiFePO₄. I suppose that this is less important when a large manufacturer invests the money to make a system safe, as in a production EV, but if you connect such a battery to a DIY inverter/charger, then it's still not proven to be safe.
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 12:08, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by paulvk » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 02:56

Weber / Coulomb
I am like many grateful for all the work you both are doing
It would be good if the inverters could be instructed to go to grid and charge the battery then be told to go back to normal settings but not store the setting in eeprom.
The reason for this is for off peak based on time of day (smart meters) an external micro could then tell them to use the grid but not wear the eeprom.

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Post by Solar Junky » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 11:16

Would like to 2nd the thanks for the cool things you guys are working on here!

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Post by Solar Junky » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 11:18

Working on a project to control my system from my cell phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMF5r8OiICk

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Post by coulomb » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 20:12

paulvk wrote: I am like many grateful for all the work you both are doing
Thanks for the kind words, Paul and others.
It would be good if the inverters could be instructed to go to grid and charge the battery then be told to go back to normal settings but not store the setting in eeprom.
The reason for this is for off peak based on time of day (smart meters) an external micro could then tell them to use the grid but not wear the eeprom.
An earlier reading of the firmware suggested that the SCI task sent all EEPROM settings (two sets*, in fact) every 100 ticks (2 seconds). But further reading reveals this not to be the case.

None of the parameter changing commands that start with P (e.g. PBCV which sets the Back to Utility voltage, parameter 11) explicitly changes the EEPROM contents. They all set a variable wParameterSetChange, but that seems to be to do with having paralleled machines agree on settings. [ Edit: This is wrong; they do update the EEPROM contents, they do it via Event 3 to the SCITask. ]

So it is quite possible that it's not worth attempting to avoid EEPROM wear.

Edit: Weber since found that the EEPROM device is one of the CAT24C01 family. [ Edit: specifically, the CAT24C04. ] Datasheet here. The datasheet states "More than 1,000,000 Program/Erase Cycles".

* Edit: I recently investigated the two sets of EEPROM data. The first set seems to be the more fixed data: serial numbers, output voltage (set only with the POPV command, not from LCD), bias and adjust (calibration) data, that sort of thing. The second set seems to be the more fluid data, the parameters accessible via the front panel LCD/buttons, and the more common commands. There is an event set up to save both sets of data, and another to save just the second set.

[ Edit: added "all" to "sends EEPROM settings" ]
[ Edit: I now believe that 100 "ticks" is 2.0 seconds (was 3.3) ]
[ Edit: Added link to the CAT24C01 datasheet. ]
[ Edit: Added starred comment about the two sets of EEPROM data. ]
[ Edit: Corrected statement that PXXX commands don't write to EEPROM. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 09:31, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 15:35

I mentioned a while back that I would like to have a way to remote switch my PIP inverter on/off just like the little rocker switch under the unit.

The Main reason was to reduce idle consumption when the PIP is not in use as my PIP is just powering a workshop/shed.

I thought about extending a wire some 20 - 30m from the small rocker switch under the pip and perhaps as suggested using a twisted/ shielded wire.

In a effort to reduce the number of lightning antennas with a direct feed to my power electronics. I'm not going down that path now. Plus having just one secondary location where you can switch the pip is kind of restrictive in 2016 Image

Being able to switch the pip on and off anywhere in the world with my phone, pc or tablet or remote wireless switch was more my style. A device that could do this for under $10 was defiantly attractive.

I have been looking at the Sonnoff range of wifi switches.

https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html

For only $6 it really is a great time to be alive if your into tec gadgets.

Scrolling down the page in the linked to the (Smart Home Product List) you can see there is a range of wifi switches that can switch both AC and DC along with some that have inputs that can be connected to sensors (temp humidity) that can then be used to trigger switching based on preset environmental conditions. Great for other tasks like controlling fans and heating/cooling devices water heaters, pumps and so on.

Along with timer scheduling. Some of the units also have the ability to be switch both over wifi and over RF remotes (great for local switching if the router/modem was modem was down.

There is even one they offer that will log electrical loads and track energy consumption. They all seem to have the ability to remote switch with additional features added to this foundation function.

For my task I just want to be able to switch the PIP via my phone using the app or via a RF remote if I'm in the car or perhaps a wall plate switch in a few locations. All without any physical wires going back to the PIP.

So first question. (and I will test myself when I have access to my PIP) That rocker switch at the bottom of the PIP what voltage is it switching?

Kurt.



Edit:fixed broken link.


Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 05:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 15:42

This is the one I was looking at.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-sv.html
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 04:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by weber » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 15:54

offgridQLD wrote:So first question. (and I will test myself when I have access to my PIP) That rocker switch at the bottom of the PIP what voltage is it switching?

I see 53 volts DC across it when it's off, and about 6 milliamps DC flowing through it when it's on.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:05

Thanks Weber,
             So at battery voltage Then Im looking at Model: IM160220004 in isolated mode (two resisters removed and external 5-24v power supply)

Although it only lists it as 0-30v DC ... AC 90-230v . I would assume the 30v DC is taking into account the max rated load switching ability of the relay at DC voltages. So switching 53v wouldn't be a issue at just 6 milliamps?
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 05:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:33

Hey guys you got to help me have tried every thing to get the db9 cable to work??? Really want to try your AWESOME firmware will make my system pimp! lol!
Have tried for all most a year with mpp solar. I'm at a loss it was working at one time with the db9 then stopped working on my two computers???? I could see one but two? even bought a new db9 cable with no luck? DANG! This was mpp solar first suggestion any help would be AWESOME!
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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:36

Got my 2nd video about my 4048 remote control battery life project
check it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAUYbLI-n4

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Post by Northland » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:42

These WiFi gadgets give the illusion of convenience.

1. Disconnect from normal WiFi
2. Request connection to aux WiFi for the device
3. Start the app
4. Switch the device
5. Close the app
6. Disconnect from aux wifi
7. Request connection to normal wifi

I prefer Bluetooth devices. It doesn't require fiddling with existing WiFi connection and works if WiFi isn't working
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:59

No it's not like that.

The only time you connect directly to it over wifi is the first time you set it up and give it your local wifi password. From then on its on your local network. So just click on app and switch on or off.

Much quicker than walking 50m in the dark or rain to unlock the power room door then say hello to snake switch pip off . Then lock power room say goodby to snake and stagger back in dark or rain.

Like I said the divices also have built in RF receiver so 4 button garage door style learning remotes or wall plate switches with RF can also activate the same switch as well as wifi.

Bluetooth is only good for very close connections and has many restrictions over
Over wifi.

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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 21:53

Was checking out the sonoff wifi stuff do you know if the ewelink download to control the device is safe to use ???

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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 22:05

What bluetooth device do you recommend
Think i'm liking bluetooth... wifi can be kinda slow to respond and if you loose internet switch does not work. But it's way cool to control from any where. Hard to beat sonof wifi switch prices!!!

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 22:18

Again,
      It makes no difference if you loose internet. Your not controlling it over the net you can control it over your local wifi. Any place you have a local wifi network connection (as in you can see your wireless router or repeater you can control it (you don't have to use Sonoffs online application) as that would shoot out to a server then back again. 3rd backup is the 430mhz RF remote that is built in again no need for internet.

Bluetooth is flaky and only good for 10m or so. Even then it's not that flash.

I more or less have WiFi connection anywhere on my 29,000m2 property so no issue connecting.

If you want to know how to flash the unit to run 3rd party software there is easy steps how to do it on Utube.

Worth watching how relevant section starts at the 4:00 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_389pQPLyr8
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 11:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Northland » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 23:24

Pretty cool.
Arduino coding is a bonus.
RF remote not in the model you gave link to, must be another upgrade model. Sounds like what you are looking for SJ.

What I'm trying to figure out is how to effectively reduce the load requirement for the pips power saving mode. At the moment if I open the microwave door the bulb lights up then the inverter goes back off. Maybe a hall sensor on the line side, feeding to analog input of a nano which triggers a ssr connected to the inverter switch?
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 23:47

Yes sorry your going to have to pay an extra 60 cents - $7 for the one with both WIFI and RF remote Image

https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-rf.html

Perhaps you could make use of another unit they sell

that has on board power consumption monitoring for $10. I haven't looked into it much but there could be a way to get it to switch based on one pips measured load. there is always some way to tweak things if you get creative.

https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-pow.html

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Post by Andreixda » Wed, 02 Nov 2016, 03:58

Hi,

I tested your software and look and works great for parallel inverters.
I have a three phase system made by 3 inverters and i can read only the first one. Could you be so kid to help me with a modificated software solution to monitor all three ?

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Post by Fotosettore » Wed, 02 Nov 2016, 09:49

hi !
i already use sonoff to switch on-off relay to use surplus power from 4048, twilight switch and external fan switch.
First of all you need use LUCIBUS, that is a software i made to display
situation of 4048.
sonoff and VIATOR (synoptic led viewer to display load situation) are connected in wifi to LUCIBUS that sends info through wifi router.
these are links

LUCIBUS info (english) :
http://www.homoandroidus.com/lucibus/index_en.php

VIATOR info (italian only ---> please use Google translator) :
http://www.homoandroidus.com/viator/viator_2

SONOFF info (italian only ---> please use Google translator) :
http://www.homoandroidus.com/lucibus/sonoff

sorry for only italian Language for some infos.
I'm working hard to translate. i hope all will be ready soon

VIATOR ver. 1 was present in MAKERFAIRE Rome - European Edition 2016
http://explore.makerfairerome.eu/poi/Exhibit_353
note : click top right corner for english
note 2 : that is the Ver.1 of VIATOR. Ver.2 now works with D1-MINI

regards
peppe


2 PIP4048MS inverters, 24 250W panels, 12 AGM 260A batteries.
Software LUCIBUS e synoptic monitor VIÁTOR.
Updated versions can be found on www.homoandroidus.com

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Post by weber » Wed, 02 Nov 2016, 13:36

Andreixda wrote: Hi,

I tested your software and look and works great for parallel inverters.
I have a three phase system made by 3 inverters and i can read only the first one. Could you be so kid to help me with a modificated software solution to monitor all three ?

What software are you referring to here? If you mean the firmware inside the inverter, then I do not think it needs modifying to provide what you want. There are already the QPGSn commands (QPGS1, QPGS2 etc), which are described in the Protocol Manual.
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 02 Nov 2016, 14:25

Thanks for that peppe. I like what I see. Lots a reading to do now Image

Kurt.

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