PIP-4048MS inverter

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weber
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sat, 22 Oct 2016, 05:41

Northland wrote: Just curious, why (in general) have such a high 'low voltage cutoff' ?
44-52 is 2.75-3.25.
3.33v normal when not charging....a large load and it would surely trigger at a high soc? I mean 3.25 very close to 3.33...
Am I missing something?
It would have been extremely difficult to do anything other than keep the same difference between min and max, and shift the range only by whole volts. Although we don't expect anyone to use 52.0, and we did consider making it 43.0 to 51.0, we thought there was a chance someone might want to use 51.2 (3.2 Vpc) in a lightly-loaded system, and thought it unlikely people would want to let it go below 44.0 (2.75 Vpc), but if enough people convince us otherwise ...

I note that surge loads, like motors starting, will not trip it off because it must stay under the threshold for more than 10 seconds.
On another note, all these changes make going to 17S easier. 44/17 is 2.59. Or 52/17 is 3.06. I'm happy with that range.
We don't recommend 17S LiFePO4 with these inverters because their battery-side capacitors and MOSFETs have very little headroom with their voltage ratings, and a history of failure because of it.
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 00:31

I used 32 400Ah Lifepo4 with 2 4048msd. Using 2 smaller cells in parallel makes it possible to mate lower Ah cells with higher Ah cells to even out the capacity of each pair. There is no cost saving using larger cells.
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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 02:17

Dude that's awesome information! Thanx!
Think MPP solar had me do the same but it's been some time... will try again..... Have so many hours in trying to get the dang db9 to usb working it's insane!!! :( I'm not that good with computers. I'm sure it's going to be something simple if i ever find it?????????


I really want to try the new firmware !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sounds just like what the lipo doctor ordered....
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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 02:30

I find all the usable power is from 53/53.1 to 52/51.9 ish volts not much above or below that... using this range of voltage think helps the cells stay in balance. With my system above 3.5 and below 3.1 the cells start to drift out of balance. with the higher cut off voltage cells will last longer & stay in better balance.

Note: The bad All my cells are used from failed BMS systems so some are not as good as outers.
The good got them super low cost.... :)
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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 02:56

In parallel Can you update firmware from slave unit or does it have to be the master?

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Post by weber » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 03:05

Solar Junky wrote: In parallel Can you update firmware from slave unit or does it have to be the master?

You have to update each one separately.
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Post by andys » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 12:23

I agree Solar Junky, I get plenty of power daily (~80% of rated amp hours) by sticking to 3.0 to 3.5V, outside of that the cell voltages start fluctuating, seemingly random.

As regards to large battery packs, I'm following with the interest the upcoming LG Chem 9.8kWh 48V pack which should have a wholesale ex-GST price of around $6k.

They don't say if its Lithium Ion or LiFePO4, but the specs seem to match up with the latter. The advantage of these is an integrated BMS, CAN bus for management, and you can connect three together, and far less DIY wiring.

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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 13:05

Looks good! like the LG products.

https://www.cclcomponents.com/lg-chem-4 ... um-battery

But it's saying 100 to 250 ah ??? That's a wide range of amp hours? lol!

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Post by andys » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 13:07

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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 13:16

Thank's
that's funny mpp solar sent me a replacement usb board replacing the rj45 board. so i would have to swap them back out for the update this is with my older pip the newer pip has both usb & rj45

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Post by Solar Junky » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 13:35

Got it.
with that voltage Looks like maybe 15s lifepo4
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Post by coulomb » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 14:59

Solar Junky wrote: with that voltage Looks like maybe 15s lifepo4

I'd say more likely 14S of 3.7 V nominal cells; 3.7 x 14 = 51.8 V.

Edit: So that would be non-LiFePO₄ lithium ion chemistry.
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Post by solamahn » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 15:02

4048msd has so far proven itself to be reliable. Installing a 4048mst with 27 x 300w panels next week
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Post by andys » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 15:13

coulomb wrote: I'd say more likely 14S of 3.7 V nominal cells; 3.7 x 14 = 51.8 V.


Ah, you're probably right. They're claiming good longevity due to proprietary manufacturing stuff. Do you have any opinions on that, versus the big LiFePO4 cells?

I'm inclined to go with what I know and what works, but their box is attractive from a "clean packaged" perspective.

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 15:22

This is getting quite off-topic. Please continue on a new thread if discussing the LG battery. I'll make this the last post of mine on this subject.
andys wrote: I'm following with the interest the upcoming LG Chem 9.8kWh 48V pack which should have a wholesale ex-GST price of around $6k.

Rainbow power have the 9.8 kWh model at AU$9565, including retail markup, "Australia tax" and GST, plus freight. "Special order". They also have the 3.3 kWh model at just over half that price.

80% down this page:

http://www.rpc.com.au/catalog/deep-cycl ... =3&sort=4a

I note from the energy brochure at
http://www.lgchem.com/upload/file/produ ... ENG[0].pdf
(sorry, I don't know how to encode the [0] part as a working link)
that they have "400 V" models as well. You can work out from the nominal power and the fact that they use 63 Ah cells that the batteries in these are actually 30S (7.0 kWh model) and 42S (9.8 kWh model) of 3.7 V cells (so 111 V and 155.4 V nominal for the respective models). The output voltage is quoted over a very wide range [ Edit: but actually, that's no wider (1.4:1) then the 48 V models ]. So I'd guess these models have a DC/DC converter in them, boosting the battery to a voltage that a typical long string grid interactive inverter can use, because they look like a long string of solar panels.

Edit: the chemistry is likely NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide):
LG Chem, 3M to start using nickel-manganese-cobalt oxide cathode materials . (Thanks Weber for finding this article.)

I have no opinion on the NMC chemistry, except that none of the other chemistries is as inherently safe as LiFePO₄. I suppose that this is less important when a large manufacturer invests the money to make a system safe, as in a production EV, but if you connect such a battery to a DIY inverter/charger, then it's still not proven to be safe.
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 23 Oct 2016, 12:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by paulvk » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 02:56

Weber / Coulomb
I am like many grateful for all the work you both are doing
It would be good if the inverters could be instructed to go to grid and charge the battery then be told to go back to normal settings but not store the setting in eeprom.
The reason for this is for off peak based on time of day (smart meters) an external micro could then tell them to use the grid but not wear the eeprom.

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Post by Solar Junky » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 11:16

Would like to 2nd the thanks for the cool things you guys are working on here!

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Post by Solar Junky » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 11:18

Working on a project to control my system from my cell phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMF5r8OiICk

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Post by coulomb » Fri, 28 Oct 2016, 20:12

paulvk wrote: I am like many grateful for all the work you both are doing
Thanks for the kind words, Paul and others.
It would be good if the inverters could be instructed to go to grid and charge the battery then be told to go back to normal settings but not store the setting in eeprom.
The reason for this is for off peak based on time of day (smart meters) an external micro could then tell them to use the grid but not wear the eeprom.
An earlier reading of the firmware suggested that the SCI task sent all EEPROM settings (two sets*, in fact) every 100 ticks (2 seconds). But further reading reveals this not to be the case.

None of the parameter changing commands that start with P (e.g. PBCV which sets the Back to Utility voltage, parameter 11) explicitly changes the EEPROM contents. They all set a variable wParameterSetChange, but that seems to be to do with having paralleled machines agree on settings. [ Edit: This is wrong; they do update the EEPROM contents, they do it via Event 3 to the SCITask. ]

So it is quite possible that it's not worth attempting to avoid EEPROM wear.

Edit: Weber since found that the EEPROM device is one of the CAT24C01 family. [ Edit: specifically, the CAT24C04. ] Datasheet here. The datasheet states "More than 1,000,000 Program/Erase Cycles".

* Edit: I recently investigated the two sets of EEPROM data. The first set seems to be the more fixed data: serial numbers, output voltage (set only with the POPV command, not from LCD), bias and adjust (calibration) data, that sort of thing. The second set seems to be the more fluid data, the parameters accessible via the front panel LCD/buttons, and the more common commands. There is an event set up to save both sets of data, and another to save just the second set.

[ Edit: added "all" to "sends EEPROM settings" ]
[ Edit: I now believe that 100 "ticks" is 2.0 seconds (was 3.3) ]
[ Edit: Added link to the CAT24C01 datasheet. ]
[ Edit: Added starred comment about the two sets of EEPROM data. ]
[ Edit: Corrected statement that PXXX commands don't write to EEPROM. ]
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 15:35

I mentioned a while back that I would like to have a way to remote switch my PIP inverter on/off just like the little rocker switch under the unit.

The Main reason was to reduce idle consumption when the PIP is not in use as my PIP is just powering a workshop/shed.

I thought about extending a wire some 20 - 30m from the small rocker switch under the pip and perhaps as suggested using a twisted/ shielded wire.

In a effort to reduce the number of lightning antennas with a direct feed to my power electronics. I'm not going down that path now. Plus having just one secondary location where you can switch the pip is kind of restrictive in 2016 Image

Being able to switch the pip on and off anywhere in the world with my phone, pc or tablet or remote wireless switch was more my style. A device that could do this for under $10 was defiantly attractive.

I have been looking at the Sonnoff range of wifi switches.

https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-wifi-wireless-switch.html

For only $6 it really is a great time to be alive if your into tec gadgets.

Scrolling down the page in the linked to the (Smart Home Product List) you can see there is a range of wifi switches that can switch both AC and DC along with some that have inputs that can be connected to sensors (temp humidity) that can then be used to trigger switching based on preset environmental conditions. Great for other tasks like controlling fans and heating/cooling devices water heaters, pumps and so on.

Along with timer scheduling. Some of the units also have the ability to be switch both over wifi and over RF remotes (great for local switching if the router/modem was modem was down.

There is even one they offer that will log electrical loads and track energy consumption. They all seem to have the ability to remote switch with additional features added to this foundation function.

For my task I just want to be able to switch the PIP via my phone using the app or via a RF remote if I'm in the car or perhaps a wall plate switch in a few locations. All without any physical wires going back to the PIP.

So first question. (and I will test myself when I have access to my PIP) That rocker switch at the bottom of the PIP what voltage is it switching?

Kurt.



Edit:fixed broken link.


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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 15:42

This is the one I was looking at.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-sv.html
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Post by weber » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 15:54

offgridQLD wrote:So first question. (and I will test myself when I have access to my PIP) That rocker switch at the bottom of the PIP what voltage is it switching?

I see 53 volts DC across it when it's off, and about 6 milliamps DC flowing through it when it's on.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:05

Thanks Weber,
             So at battery voltage Then Im looking at Model: IM160220004 in isolated mode (two resisters removed and external 5-24v power supply)

Although it only lists it as 0-30v DC ... AC 90-230v . I would assume the 30v DC is taking into account the max rated load switching ability of the relay at DC voltages. So switching 53v wouldn't be a issue at just 6 milliamps?
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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:33

Hey guys you got to help me have tried every thing to get the db9 cable to work??? Really want to try your AWESOME firmware will make my system pimp! lol!
Have tried for all most a year with mpp solar. I'm at a loss it was working at one time with the db9 then stopped working on my two computers???? I could see one but two? even bought a new db9 cable with no luck? DANG! This was mpp solar first suggestion any help would be AWESOME!
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Post by Solar Junky » Tue, 01 Nov 2016, 16:36

Got my 2nd video about my 4048 remote control battery life project
check it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAUYbLI-n4

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