PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Post by weber » Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 16:51

Well that certainly blows that particular version of "chasing each other's tails" out of the water. And I can't think of another one.

Unless perhaps the EVSE is disconnecting at low voltage. I guess you'd see a LED blinking or hear a relay clicking if that was happening.

You could try a $10 10A EMI filter from Jaycar. It might not last long in continuous use but it might be enough to prove that's what's needed.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/Passive-Compon ... r/p/MS4001
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 17:22

The EVSE had a solid LED and I am 99% sure the charge was always active. The fact that I see 3300w load for any amount of time when Using a sub 10A EVSE is making me lean towards the pilot signal interference. As the EVSE under normal operation will never command this from the charger.

I don't mind trying the Jaycar EMI filter. Not a big risk if it doesn't work.

Kurt



Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 07:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 17:46

Kurt, I have never seen or logged the pause in 74,000km. That doesn't mean that it hasn't happened of course. I might have been asleep on the majority of 10A charges that weren't logged.

Can you check your logs and see what the battery temperatures,voltages, start SOC etc were at the pause time ? I am struggling to understand why mitsi would intentionally extend the charging time unless there was a battery pack condition that required it.
Half my charges are at 2.2kW and the other half at 3.3kW. I have never been below 1bar and plan to avoid fast DC charging.

Re a filter.....
just run the PIP power through that old UPS you have in bypass mode. It has a reasonable set of filter components inline.
Alternatively, many switchmode power supplies have good mains input filters internally. Find a 10A input rated one and hotwire that part of the circuit.

Weber, yes, you describe the tail chase of DC-DCs well. I am sadly aware of many situations where constant power devices are unstable. That is why I posted a few years back that I was pleased that the imiev charger was constant input current.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 18:09

"Kurt, I have never seen or logged the pause in 74,000km. That doesn't mean that it hasn't happened of course. I might have been asleep on the majority of 10A charges that weren't logged"

Every single charge from new it has had the pause the same as others have reported. Mid winter or Summer all the same . I don't keep logs of all my charging with canion.

Just keep tabs on it your self next time you charge your car up from say 20% soc. It will defanatly do it before it gets to 50% SOC.You have most likely walked away or gone to bed by the time it pauses. I charge a lot In the day time and while it is charging I have a big wattage graphics dial on my tablet in the kitchen so I see the dial drop by 2200w and notice the pause every time.

So unless you have a visual indication of the load or log the entire charge you wouldn't notice it.( though you would think after 75k worth of driving you would have stumbled across it one time or another when you had a power meter on the EVSE)

Thanks for the tip on the old APC UPS in bypass mode. That's in the power room top shelf of the cabinet doing nothing...good memory!



Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 08:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 13 Apr 2015, 20:16

OK, I will specifically look for the pause with canion though it has never captured one before.
Strange, I nearly always have a power meter in line and half my charges are daytime. Yep, may simply never been there at the right time.

BTW, if you are in the pause time, what happens if you unplug the J1772 and plug it back in again ? Does the charge simply start again ? or does the pause time continue until finished ? that is, was there a reason for the pause ?
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 14 Apr 2015, 02:17

Ac motor if I had to give a guide on when it happens. I would say when charging from around 20% SOC it would happen within the first hr or two so or before you reach 6 bars.

I haven't payed much attention to it other than noticing it the day I got my car. I then looked up the behavior and found it was common so didn't look into it. 6-20 mins out of a 5hr charge is easily hidden. I would say it's closer to 6 mins in most of my charges.

I don't think it's abnormal behavior or has anything to do with temperature or imbalance or any stress related conditions. If I had to associate something to it I would guess something to do with calibrating the SOC guage...just a guess.

Kurt
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Post by reecho » Tue, 14 Apr 2015, 03:53

2010's have the pause in charging as well....

Image

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Post by gmacd33 » Sat, 18 Apr 2015, 22:55

weber wrote:
Using the protocol that Coulomb and I reverse-engineered yesterday, we can still only raise the inverter cut-off voltage, on-the-fly, to 48 volts. This is one way in which this inverter (and pretty much every other inverter on the planet) fails to cater for LiFePO4 batteries. So we will also need to modify the inverter's voltage-sensing to make it read some voltage above 51.3 V as if it was 48 V.


I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not just use the BMS to control contactors to disconnect the solar panels if a cell goes over voltage, and disconnect the load if a cell goes too low a voltage?

Apologies if this question has already been answered - I'm still reading through the 15 pages on the topic... ;-)
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 20 Apr 2015, 15:34

I spent some time with the PIP4048 over the weekend. Friday late morning I shut down the Selectronic inverter (It got it's first real rest in 7 years!) I had the little PIP power the entire house and workshop.

I went around turning on different loads. First was all the lights in the workshop 10 x 30w fluorescent tubes (power factor corrected electronic ballest) (300w). No issues there so they stayed on. Next was the Imiev charger (2100w). The house was consuming around 300w base load with a few things on. Then I went inside the house and switched the dual boiler Coffey machine. (2000w+) Every thing was fine roughly 4700w load for a short period. I then turned the tap on at the kitchen sink and the pressure pump came on and tripped the inverter.

So I know the limits of then unit now and no surprises it's listed as a 4000w inverter. I thought why not just give the PIP a run for 24hrs and see what it's like to live with. Part of the reason was to see how having a small base load on the PIP would effect it's reaction to the Ramp up and ramp down of the Imiev charger.

The PIP had no issue with the Initial ramp up of the imiev charger and again no issue at the mid charge pause and ramp up again. All was going well and it ran the normal house loads + the Imiev charger for the rest of the day. Though it had a hickup as the Imiev was ramping down to end if charge. It didn't go as bonkers as the example on video but the output voltage was showing fluctuations. I didn't take note of how small the base load from the house was at the time but I'm sure there was something.

Overall the inverter did a nice job of powering the home. Fridges & freezers started nice and smoothly. Computers, TV's and water pumps ran fine. I did find myself thinking a little before going crazy in the kitchen with multiple large load appliances. All at the same time. I never give it any consideration with the Selectronic. Though the PIP is more than livable particularly as a temporary backup inverter. Two PIPs in parallel would result in carefree appliance, workshop and EV charging use. Though at the expense of 100w idle load vs 60w for the Selectronic and 30w for the later model Selectronic's.

I did pull the 2700w APC commercial UPS out and dust it off but didn't have time to sort out the plugs to try running - filtering the PIPs output through it to see if that helped with the issue. Perhaps next weekend.

Overall I think as mentioned by Webber it's difficult to see what's happening with the PIP using onboard slow digital metering. So I might take you up on that offer to sniff things out with the Scope and analog meters. I do have a scope but a very old and super basic dicksmith unit I got for $3 at a garage sale Image ) The same garage sale I did pick up a stack of analog meters. So I have a 300v range analog volt meter.

On a side note the stock cooling fans on the PIP are ridiculous. I think they might have had a ex hovercraft engineer working on the thermo dynamics design team for the PIP Image The upgrade to quieter fans that was detailed earlyer is essential for personal sanity and most likely any longevity.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 20 Apr 2015, 10:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by weber » Tue, 21 Apr 2015, 02:20

gmacd33 wrote:I'm probably missing something obvious, but why not just use the BMS to control contactors to disconnect the solar panels if a cell goes over voltage, and disconnect the load if a cell goes too low a voltage?

Apologies if this question has already been answered - I'm still reading through the 15 pages on the topic... ;-)

Hi Greg. You will indeed find the answer given implicitly by my subsequent posts. But I don't mind answering it explicitly. It's a good question.

First I must sadly admit that, in the end, that's all we could do. More specifically, we disconnect all charge sources on overvoltage, overtemperature or undertemperature. Not just the PV array but also the AC input from the petrol generator. And we disconnect loads on undervoltage or overtemperature. And we have a further backup in case of e.g. welded contacts in those contactors, where if things continue to degenerate we open the battery contactor to isolate the battery from everything, requiring human intervention to restart the system.

But you ask why would we want to do other than that.

One reason is that contactors and their cabling cost money. Another is that they are so ... one-bit-binary. We don't protect the cells in our EV in that way. Instead we run a PI-control loop on the stress level of the most stressed cell and have it control the charger or motor controller in such a way that they back off gradually, and this ensures that top balancing completes on every charge.

Some day soon we'll have standalone or hybrid power system inverter/charger/MPPTs that are designed to be controlled in that way, by a BMS, based on the worst cell, not the overall battery voltage. We thought we might be able to do this with the PIP-4048MS, with its serial input that allows us to change the absorb and float voltages on the fly. In fact, Coulomb and I had it all working when charging from the generator or grid. But it wouldn't work when charging from the PV array because it insisted on starting a new MPPT sweep every time we changed the absorb or float voltage setpoint.

Of course with control of the loads, a standalone or hybrid power system has to control them in a binary manner, unlike in an EV where you're allowed to effectively "brown-out" the load. But this should still be do-able by controlling the inverter with serial commands rather than by adding a contactor. We were unable to do that either, since the PIP did not allow the low voltage cutoff to be set high enough for LiFePO4, and the manufacturer turned down our request to increase the range of that parameter.

[Edit: Clarification]
Last edited by weber on Mon, 20 Apr 2015, 18:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber » Tue, 21 Apr 2015, 07:28

Last Saturday I spent the day in the bush, with Black Monolith #1, for the first time since it was installed 81 days previously.

Many of you would have read about the over-reading State-of-Charge meter in the MX-5 thread. In short, the Monolith's SoC meter was underestimating Depth-of-Discharge by exactly half. So 50% SoC was really 0% SoC. So when the customer said the meter had never been below 80%, it actually meant the battery had never been below 60%, which was still very good given that they now had an electric fridge and there had been several consecutive overcast days.

There were a number of other non-critical jobs on the Monolith that I had been saving up, and I decided that fixing the SoC meter was important enough to warrant the 2 hour drive.

On the last day of installation I had failed to take the UV-stable (black sheathed) earth wire and the earth clamps for the PV array mounting frames, with their special anodising-piercing stainless washers. So that was one job.

Another was a change to the BMS software so that the bootstrap-loader would be the same for both EV and solar power system (MeXy and Monolith). The bootstrap-loader includes the code that is called on reset. A CMU or IMU is reset on power-up or by receiving a "break" signal on its serial input. When it is reset, it normally sends a break to the next CMU in the chain. But the IMU was acting as the BMS master in the Monolith (unlike in MeXy which uses a Tritium EVDC as the master), so the Monolith IMU receives from the last CMU as well as sending to the first CMU, thereby forming a loop in which the resetting break signal would endlessly circulate if something wasn't done to prevent it. See the diagram here
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p55579

Coulomb and I decided that rather than make a special case for the Monolith BSL code, we would change the ID of the Monolith's IMU from 0 to 255 (the highest possible ID) and would make it so a device with an ID of 255, no matter whether it was an IMU or a CMU, in a solar power system or an EV, would never send a break on reset.

I also agreed to do a complete discharge of the battery until the load contactor shut off, to prove (to the customer) that it would indeed protect the cells in this case, as well as proving the fix to the SoC-meter.

So on arrival I isolated the PV array, connected the laptop to the optic fibres, extracted the logged data (which held no surprises), changed the IMU ID, updated the software, and began the discharge. We ran a vacuum cleaner and a hair-dryer continuously, and the customer repeatedly boiled kettles full of water. The PIP showed 99% load when all three were running. It kept quite cool despite the lower flow rate of the quiet fans we had put into it.

It took around 3 hours, and while it was discharging I installed the earth wires to the array frames, in drizzling rain. I expected it to cut off the loads when the SoC meter was reading around 20%, but it went all the way down to zero and sat there for a while before it tripped off the loads. We rested the cells for about 30 minutes and I measured them all at around 3.27 V which means that they really were around 20% SoC. It seems that the actual capacity of these CALB cells is quite a bit higher than the nominal 180 Ah -- a bonus which, as I explained to the customer, will gradually disappear over the years.

Then because it was late in the day and very overcast, we ran the petrol generator for long enough to put about 30% back into the battery. At first the generator was browning out at about 180 volts with the PIP putting 40 A dc into the 53 V battery as well as running the fridge and some lights. So I manually set the PIP to put only 30 A into the battery from the generator and all was well.

But any time that the monolith is shut down and restarted, the IMU sends initialisation commands to the PIP, including this generator charge setting, so I SMSed Coulomb, back in Brisbane, to ask him to look up the CRC for the 30 amp version of the command. We had relied on an online CRC calculator, but there was no internet access out here.

The mobile phone signal is very weak too. So to both send and receive TXTs I had to stand on the roof in the drizzling rain, holding my phone above my head, with rapidly dwindling battery. It was rather frustrating at the time, but somewhat hilarious in hindsight, that Coulomb's first long-awaited response was, "Sorry wasn't with phone. Do you still need this?". And after I replied "Yes" his second eagerly awaited response was, "I'll see if I can find a post on how it's done", dropping a notch on my phone's battery meter each time due to its need to use maximum transmit power. Of course Coulomb had no idea of my difficulties.

But Coulomb came through, and I managed to write it down before my phone died. It was hexadecimal C0C0, which I felt like a nice hot cup of, by then. Image I made the change, uploaded the software again, said my goodbyes to the happy customer and headed for home.
Last edited by weber on Mon, 20 Apr 2015, 22:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 21 Apr 2015, 14:36

" It seems that the actual capacity of these CALB cells is quite a bit higher than the nominal 180 Ah -- a bonus which, as I explained to the customer, will gradually disappear over the years."

Yes I think that's how they fudge the cycle life to 80% of original capacity.

By giving you a cell that's (just an example) really a 480ah to start with but labeling it as a 400Ah. This way after 3000 cycles if the battery is down to 320Ah .It's bang on the 80% of original listed capacity (400ah).

The reality is its actually lost 160AH from a 480AH cell. closer to 35% capacity loss.

Kurt


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Post by gmacd33 » Mon, 27 Apr 2015, 18:18

Just thought I'd let you guys know about the Solar & Energy Storage conference & expo 13-14 May in Melbourne - seemed relevant to this topic somehow!

3 concurrent streams on solar PV and batteries. Registration is free, I just got flights & accom for $374.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 27 Apr 2015, 18:33

Looks Interesting, https://www.energystorage.org.au/event/ ... onference/

I can see the picture of a huge row of flooded lead acid batterys in the top right. Hopefully they have better solutions to demonstrate. Image

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Post by Scott » Mon, 27 Apr 2015, 21:18

Hi,
I just registered to say thanks to Weber and Coulomb for reverse engineering the CRC.
For anyone wanting to make devices that communicate with the inverter, I've put together a simple emulator tool which responds in the same way as the inverter but lets you test out the fault flags without disrupting your actual inverter.
Hopefully someone will find it useful. These cheap inverters seem like a good candidate for hacking in extra functionality.

http://theloadshed.blogspot.com/2015/04 ... erter.html

github.com/scottwday/InverterEmulator

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Post by weber » Mon, 27 Apr 2015, 21:43

Thanks Scott, but elsewhere in this thread you will find that we needn't have bothered reverse-engineering it, since the manufacturer is quite happy to share the protocol, including C source code for the CRC. So thanks MPP Solar and thanks Johny for just asking. See
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p53732

And thanks Scott for sharing your code.
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Post by weber » Mon, 27 Apr 2015, 23:50

As Greg (gmacd33) pointed out to me yesterday, it's pretty much a no brainer for folks in Australia to go with the "Giant Power" version of the PIP-4048MS (on eBay) now. When you include freight and GST, the grey one from Maximum Solar (Taiwan) is only about AU$160 less than the red one from Giant Power distributors in Australia. And for your extra $160 you get quiet fans already installed, a 2 year warranty instead of 1 year (but do read the conditions, exclusions and "not included"s), and if it does have to be sent back for repair you only have to pay freight to and from an Aussie address. And for those of you who live near one of the Giant Power dealers, you may be able to save a little by picking them up from a warehouse.
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 28 Apr 2015, 00:35

A quick look around on ebay shows some other local options. This one looks like the same product (They gave it the red spray can treatment to) $900 free delivery (Au suppler)

Edit: Sorry the link would help, looking closer it isn't 100% the same. no heat sink ontop and lower max PV input voltage. (makes me think it could be PWM and not MPPT)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5kva-4000w-4 ... 2ee09b5e69

I was under the impression the better quality quieter fans only $40 for two + postage.

I guess you have to consider how important that 12 months of warranty is worth.

Kurt
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Post by gmacd33 » Tue, 28 Apr 2015, 15:04

Can anyone confirm the regulations for using imported electronics as part of a for-sale product in Australia? My understanding is that whoever imports the item is responsible for testing that it conforms to Aus standards, and is liable for insurance purposes etc if the device fails and causes damage - is this correct? (This is of course only relevant for someone buying the product and then selling it on to a customer as part of a complete solar system.)

Also, is the Taiwanese version officially allowed to be connected to the grid for the "generator input"?
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 28 Apr 2015, 15:50

The only one I know of that was on the list of approved inverters to connect to the grid (and feed to the grid) is the 3000w Giant power model (different inverter to there 4000w (pip4048) )

This one. (might be worth considering for a package for grid conected homes)
http://www.giantpower.com.au/giant-powe ... rid-system

The way I see it with the pip4048 is its just the same as a big UPS. It's a appliance isn't it?. Its AC input is just feeding a charger or bypassing and feeding the grid though it and passing it on.

Though I don't know if things change once you start hard wiring it into a house thats on the grid.

Weber might know the rules better than I do.

Edit: All I can find in the giant power webpage is
"Giant Power Integrated Power Systems are approved as off grid inverters by the Clean Energy Council (the peak body representing Australia's clean energy sector), and are suitable for installation under the Renewable Energy Certificate scheme. Additionally, they meet IEC 62109 standards."

Kurt
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Post by weber » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 04:40

gmacd33 wrote: Can anyone confirm the regulations for using imported electronics as part of a for-sale product in Australia? My understanding is that whoever imports the item is responsible for testing that it conforms to Aus standards, and is liable for insurance purposes etc if the device fails and causes damage - is this correct? (This is of course only relevant for someone buying the product and then selling it on to a customer as part of a complete solar system.)
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and nor am I an expert on electrical standards generally (only some solar and standalone power system standards), so please do not rely on the following, but seek expert advice.

I spent most of the day researching your questions online and writing and rewriting this post. It seems your understanding is substantially correct, except that you may not be required to arrange for any testing yourself against those Australian Standards where you have documentation from the manufacturer having tested it.

As offgridQLD suggested, the PIP-4048MS is indeed considered to be a uninterruptible power supply (UPS) [Edit: when combined with a battery] and so the the AS 62040 family of standards is relevant. And because it connects to a PV array, the IEC 62109 family is also relevant.

You can see the manufacturer's test certificates here, where they certify that they have tested it against the corresponding international standard in the IEC 62040 (UPS) family or European standard in the EN 62040 (UPS) family. As far as I can tell, the EN and AS 62040 standards are identical to the IEC 62040 standards and so are identical to each other.
http://www.mppsolar.com/manual/CE/EMC-P ... report.pdf
http://www.mppsolar.com/manual/CE/LVD-P ... report.pdf

I can't find anywhere that MPP Solar (Taiwan) claim that the PIP-4048MS meets IEC 62109 (PV power conversion equipment). However Giant Power do claim it for their equivalent IPS-4000WM. I sent Giant Power an email asking them to point me to a copy of the test certificate. [That was before I found that their IEC 62109 compliance is registered on the Clean Energy Council website as described below.]

It is certainly the case that, as an importer of something whose manufacturer does not have a place of business in Australia, you must honour any warranties, both statutory or "express". See page 9 of
http://consumerlaw.gov.au/files/2015/09 ... _guide.pdf
Also, is the Taiwanese version officially allowed to be connected to the grid for the "generator input"?

I know you know this Greg, but for the benefit of others, as offgridQLD mentioned there are much more strict requirements for grid feed inverters, but the PIP-4048MS (and hence the Giant Power 48V 4000W Integrated Power System) is not capable of returning power to the grid, nor can it produce power in parallel with a genset. In regard to grid connection it is simply an appliance, a UPS, which feeds to its loads via an internal changeover relay. It feeds them either the grid/genset that is connected to its AC input, or the output of its inverter which is powered from a combination of battery and PV array. It can't do both at once.

Non-grid-feed inverters are not required to be on any Clean Energy Council approval list, but suppliers of PV power conversion equipment (PCE) (which the PIP is) can elect to register their device's IEC 62109 compliance there. The Giant Power IPS-4000WM is so registered, as you can see by searching on "Giant Power" on this page:
http://www.solaraccreditation.com.au/pr ... rters.html

In Australia, all devices that take power directly from a PV array (such as the PIP and separate PV charge controllers) must comply with IEC 62109 by 11-July-2015. The novel requirements of this standard seem to relate to detecting earth faults on the array and raising an alarm that can't be ignored. This does not apply to ELV arrays (i.e. arrays whose open circuit voltage will never exceed 120 V on even the coldest morning). But the PIP-4048MS / IPS-4000WM is capable of having an LV array since its specs go up to 145 V open circuit. But there is no mention in the PIP manual of any earth or ground fault detection.

Since I don't have a copy of IEC 62109 [Edit: AU$820 for the two parts!] I don't know exactly what its requirements are.

Regarding compliance to the UPS standards (IEC/EN/AS 62040), it appears that since UPS are not on the Australian list of declared electrical equipment, safety approval is voluntary, however it is still illegal to sell a product that does not meet the standards. So you still need to satisfy yourself that it does so. It seems to me that your situation as a reseller would be no different in this regard, whether you source it directly from Taiwan or via Giant Power.

I can't find anything that suggests there is any difference in these requirements between hard-wiring versus plugging in, or grid versus genset, except of course that a hard-wired appliance must be connected by a licensed electrician.

I repeat, I'm not a lawyer and nor am I an expert on electrical standards generally, so please do not rely on the above, but seek expert advice.
Last edited by weber on Tue, 28 Apr 2015, 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 07:57

I forgot to mention the other change I made to the monolith, last time I went out to the bush. I reduced the float voltage slightly, in line with the experiments of a friend of offgridQLD, and the north American guy who did the great write-up of his RV power system experience.

I changed the BMS code to set the PIP float voltage to 53.8 V (3.3625 Vpc) [Edit: Later lowered to 53.7 V] instead of 54.0 V (3.375 Vpc) and for the CMUs to bypass at 3.368 V instead of 3.380 V. Bulk/absorb is still 55.2 V (3.45 Vpc).
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Post by weber » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 16:35

You could easily have missed it, but Chris Dunphy, the Lithium RV tech nomad, linked to another excellent page with real life experience of LiFePO4 in "fractional C" applications, by a guy who remains nameless but writes from Compass Marine in Maine, USA.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats
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Post by Johny » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 16:55

weber wrote: ....writes from Compass Marine in Maine, USA.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats
Interesting read. He indicates that EVs tend toward bottom balancing which I don't believe is true - perhaps in Jack's neighborhood. Like many articles/blogs there is a belief that folk have lots of spare time to muck around manually balancing cells. I find that the high charge/discharge in my pack causes imbalance rather quickly and any time I've been trouble it's because I have not allowed enough time (timer on charger outlet) for the auto-balance to take place for a few weeks.

Anyway - easy to critisize - I'm glad he's written it all up. For the most part it's great advise.

BTW We hired a bareboat in the Whitsundays for a week last year and the Lead Acid was only good for about 10 hours due to the heavy load of the fridge on board. I was surprized that there was no alarm system or whatever - just a voltmeter with the instruction not to let it go below 11V. Marine batteries is yet another area that has it's own considerations.

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 17:19

Yes abused battery's are all to common. Particularly when they are not yours and the operator is ill informed or just doesn't care.

Camper vans are another one. We hired one in NZ and all they had to indicate if your 200Ah or so of flooded lead acid was ok. Was a 3 bar led gauge. Red Orange Green Image Perhaps a simple LVD (set at crazy low voltages) Not ideal for long service life. They most likely factor in yearly battery replacements into there costings.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 29 Apr 2015, 07:20, edited 1 time in total.

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