gholm's Morris J2 Van- 1966

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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Post by Johny » Thu, 23 Jun 2011, 19:05

coulomb wrote:
Johny wrote:The wiper motor doesn't care either.
Huh? Do they use wound fields, or does the mechanism somehow work with the motor in reverse?
I think it's more a matter of wish/wash as compared to wash/wish. I assume that the motor goes in reverse but since it's a cam arrangement it doesn't seem to matter - at least no-one to my knowledge (and I've helped a number of folk swap old cars from pos to neg earth), has ever complained. To be honest I don't even know if the motor DOES run in reverse...I've always assumed they are permanent magnet.

It could well be why many older cars wipers don't park properly - but then they are generally pretty worn anyway so it's hard to tell.

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Post by gholm » Thu, 23 Jun 2011, 21:03

Reversing polarity of battery isn't a biggie. Any protesting elements could always be hardwired back to reverse if they just don't like it.

That said, it is just a head space.
I'll probably leave it alone since :
- It works as is.
- I've already hardwired in many LEDs lights
- (minor) Diodes on all contactors are in place.
- Latching-relay works in current configuration.

The only real issue is using LED bulbs which are hardwired internally. counter this, I've had to electro-isolate the bulb socket's earth.
Now that's done, I don't want to rework them on a whim.



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Post by woody » Thu, 23 Jun 2011, 21:04

coulomb wrote:
Johny wrote:The wiper motor doesn't care either.

Huh? Do they use wound fields, or does the mechanism somehow work with the motor in reverse?
Mechanism somehow works :-)

Intermittent wipers were only invented in 1963!
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Post by Electrocycle » Thu, 23 Jun 2011, 22:44

I think a lot of wiper motors are wound field, but they often use two sets of brushes for a timing change to do the two speeds - which won't work so well with reverse polarity if it's a permanent magnet motor.

Personally I'd convert to negative ground just to avoid issues with using any automotive electronic stuff in future. It'll be easier to convert now than later!
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Post by gholm » Thu, 23 Jun 2011, 23:14

Wipers are on/off, no dual speed fancy-schmancy stuff.

I agree on pushing the pos-to-neg earth conversion for future ease-of-use. Will definitely ponder.

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Post by gholm » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 03:50

Update time.
The weather in Sydney has been horrific for those without sheds, so I've been making do with what little dry time I have, otherwise when desperate I've rigged up my own solution .
Image

Now I have most things installed that I need, so I've been driving the van around the neighborhood testing various elements.

Some notes :
- Takes off smoothly from a start, and under the same pedal pressure as when it was ICE, it accelerates at least as fast. I haven't tested full power from standing start yet but it has DEFINITELY enough grunt for my needs.
- Once it hits 20kph or so, acceleration can be incredible up to 60kph.
I don't have a speedo working yet so I can't exactly tell, but I can keep up with traffic NO problem. I'm constantly amazed at how much power it has. Easily faster than my old ICE version.
- The Amp usage is not as high as I expected for direct drive. Accelerating at 150-160 amps feels like I'm really pushing the van along hard. Seeing as the controller is rated to 600amps, I have PLENTY of power left over.

- There is now not as much weight over front axle so steering is much lighter and much easier to turn at low speed/parking etc
- The fear of stiffer bounce for the driver is unfounded, and I can't really tell the difference in ride (not exactly smooth either, just not too hard)

- Brakes have new hoses so they feel really crisp and tight and the new elec vacuum pump/reservoir keeps plenty of vacuum in reserve for 15+ pumps of the pedal without needing power. (Big reservoir)

Couple of concerns however :
- The vacuum pump pressure switch has quite low hysteresis, and when the van is static, I can hear it kick in for half a sec every 10secs. Doesn't feel right but there is no adjustment on the switch. It'll either wear out the pump or its own internal switch terminals. Any ideas? I probably should check for vacuum leaks too.

- When driving, theres a vibration under higher levels of power and I suspect a worn component in the rear diff, since the vibration is also apparent on coasting. I'll get it checked out at a mechanic soon.

So far alls rolling well. Will test it longer and longer distances and get the finals in for the full inspection.


Yet to do :
Put in DC-DC convertor
Put in charger interlock.
Put in collision shut-down switch (my old one was faulty)
Install DIY arduino-based tacho/odo/speedo

Here's some photos of the control box interior and side (under driver seat). Yeah, its messy but I haven't finalised everything yet and I'll definitely get into that with some cable ties once its all locked in and tested properly.

Image
Image

[edit] spelling and grammar :)
cheers
Last edited by gholm on Mon, 08 Aug 2011, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by seligtype3 » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 03:57

exciting news! can i ask which e-xpert prescaler you purchased? you're running 45 cells yeah?

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Post by gholm » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 04:00

The prescaler is the 1:5 one from e-Xpert Pro and yes, running 45 cells.

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Post by evric » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 06:06

If anyone is thinking of purchasing an e-Xpert Pro make sure you don't order the e-Xpert Pro HV. The HV version does not work with a prescaler.
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Post by evric » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 06:10

James, the vacuum pump pressure switch may be OK, you might have a leak in the system. If there is no leak, try a different brand pressure switch. Other people have found that some brands have too fine a hysteresis.
Last edited by evric on Tue, 06 Sep 2011, 19:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by antiscab » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 15:58

gholm wrote:
- The Amp usage is not as high as I expected for direct drive. Accelerating at 150-160 amps feels like I'm really pushing the van along hard. Seeing as the controller is rated to 600amps, I have PLENTY of power left over.


Was that motor amps or battery amps?

controllers are rated in motor amps, battery amps only = motor amps when motor voltage has reached battery voltage.

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Post by Johny » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 16:02

Great news James. The "old" van is going to get a lot of attention now. Glad to hear that performance is good.

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Post by gholm » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 21:45

antiscab wrote:
Was that motor amps or battery amps?

controllers are rated in motor amps, battery amps only = motor amps when motor voltage has reached battery voltage.


Not sure of the difference. The shunt is between the B- on the controller and the negative of the pack.
What does that mean? (I'm guessing battery amps)

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Post by woody » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 22:01

Yep, battery amps.

So unfortunately you don't have 3x as much motor current/torque left at low speed :-(

You do have that in reserve at medium speed and above though.

You can multiply your amps by your pack voltage to get electrical power going in, e.g. 150 amps x 120 V = 18,000W = 18 kW electrical.

180Ah Sky Energy Cells should be capable of 720amps continuous (90kW), but you should only get to 600 amps (77kW) at moderate speed heavy acceleration.

Through a DC motor you should get 75-80% of that on the road once you are moving (~60kW).

This doesn't sound much compared to a petrol car, but they need to rev their guts out to hit their quoted figures (6000+ rpm).

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Post by Johny » Tue, 09 Aug 2011, 22:01

gholm wrote:...I'm guessing battery amps
Your are right. Battery and Motor Amps vary enormously. The motor controller uses high frequency pulses to vary the voltage to the motor. In doing this it performs the same function as a Switch Mode Power Supply and converts high voltage to low voltage at high efficiency.

Consider that the motor is operating at 1/4 of it's rated RPM (by rated RPM I mean the max. RPM that it achieves near max. torque). So the motor may only have 1/4 of the battery pack voltage applied to it - lets say 35V, and is drawing 500 Amps. That is 17500 Watts.
On the battery side thats 140 Volts (for example) at 125 Amps.
At even lower motor speeds this current difference contrasts even more.

All this assumes 100% efficiency which of course isn't true.

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Post by AMPrentice » Thu, 11 Aug 2011, 06:00

Congratulations!!! this is my favorite EV atm, Im hoping you
enjoy all you planned and that others pay attention that it
is electric on the road. The Zeva controller looks right at
home and would have to make this EV more home grown than most.
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Post by gholm » Fri, 12 Aug 2011, 03:11

Thanks AMPrentice. It's is a unique vehicle for sure.

Now to get in certified....

I have run into an interesting dilemma. I have wired in my e_Xpert Pro with prescaler and it works fine except it loses power each time I cut the main contactor.

This means it resets, and every time I start the van, it thinks it is at 100% charge.
This is OK if it is charged, but I don't want to have to remember my own usage throughout the day and I want it to remember.
So, to keep its memory, the unit needs to be constantly powered.

It can be powered by either the prescaler ( which must be wired directly to the HV pack) or by a 12v battery which must share a ground with the HV. (?)
ie : See this doc.
http://www.tbs-electronics.com/download ... scaler.pdf

I don't like to sound of any of that because it means that I have a live HV line outside the main contactor.
My whole reason for having the main contactor inside the battery box is to totally isolate the pack when van is off.
That way, I know there is no HV up front if that contactor isn't on.

If I wire the eXpert Pro around the contactor, then I have HV up front at all times... not good.
If I use a 12v battery to power the eXpert Pro, the HV ground must be linked to the 12v ground when the van is ON (This I assume is bad bad bad, but someone might tell me otherwise.?.)

Can anyone throw me a suggestion on how to get around it somehow?


Last edited by gholm on Thu, 11 Aug 2011, 18:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny » Fri, 12 Aug 2011, 15:35

Use a little DC-DC 12V isolator to power the device. That way the grounds are isolated.
Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-DC-Conver ... 1c1c6348dc
These are typically only good for around 100mA, so check the current drain of the eXpert Pro - I can't imagine it's more than 50mA.

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Post by evric » Fri, 12 Aug 2011, 15:47

James, even with a DC-DC converter, that cct shows the negatives of the main and 12V Aux battery packs joined - that is definitely a no no.
I have the e-xpert pro wired via a 5:1 prescaler connected permanently to the main pack. I have used orange heatshrink to notify everyone of the potential beneath. I like this arrangement because is shows the condition of the main pack continually and also shows charge current. There is very little current drain as the back-light goes out after a period (1min?) when the current drops below about 1Amp. Just use some small fuses (1amp) on the HV lines going to the prescaler. I know normal fuses are not designed for HV DC, but it's better than nothing. Mine have never blown.
Last edited by evric on Fri, 12 Aug 2011, 05:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by gholm » Wed, 07 Sep 2011, 04:26

Ok almost ready to have this thing certified. I took it to Consulmotive the other day, and John mentioned his wish list for finalities.
1) Basically I need to make sure all bolts in my battery box are of the hightensile kind, including the big metal brackets that hold the box onto the chassis frame. This meant a hunt around for a store that could provide 140mm HT M8 which was a simple task since his shop was just around the corner from Industrial Fastners who's kind sales staff filled my order in 5 minutes.
Sweet.

Other toDos remaining is an install of a fire extinguisher, cover the box to IP22 standard (no finger-sized spaces) and to draw up a "Things I have installed, and what they are.." map to show him the work I've done.

In the meantime, I've also been working on the tachometer.
My plan is to use an arduino to drive a hall effect sensor which will sit close to a nylon collar around the spare motor shaft I have at the front of the vehicle. The nylon collar has 2 magnets embedded in it to latch the sensor on and then off each rotation of the collar. The arduino will automagically tell me the RPM of the motor, and by some mathematical trickery then be able to tell me speed, and distance travelled (the van is direct drive, remember!!)

Below is a shot of the nylon collar on the lathe, its a 60mm round bar surprisingly cheaper to source from England than any local supplier. Thank you eBay offcut reseller from England. Off to a good mate of mine Scotty who has a handy little modelmaking lathe and kindly allowed me to supplement his beer intake in return for some lazy evening lathe action.
Image

Below is a shot of the Arduino ready to install. Its currently driving a red LCD but the general lighting scheme in the van at night is orange (all incandescent console lights) so I'm sourcing an orange/black serial LCD which are apparently quite rare in this China vs US rare-earth trading war environment that's happening as we speak. LittleBirdElectronics have been very patient towards my insistence. :)
Image
I'll post a video once it's installed and live.

In my test driving phase, I'm slowly learning the ropes.
My initial impressions were of shock and disbelief that I could actually make this van work as an EV. It's an odd feeling after so long planning and researching that I may just wake up and it's all been a dream.

Been musing over a few of the nuances of owning an EV at all. Here's a couple of them :

1) It's still an A to B solution. If I want to go from one place to another and arrive dry and comfortable, I use a vehicle. This van is no different to an ICE except the sitting in traffic is complete silent, and I can now hear people on the footpath talking.
2) Going DirectDrive is by way far and beyond the best decision I've made. The motor is REALLY ballsy, and moves the van along hardly raising a sweat, and the Zeva controller, even with its throttlebox nunaces (it sometimes needs a jiggle of the throttlepot cable to get it moving) has been exceptional.
My test drive has taken me to work and back, so basically basically here how it goes.

I live in Coogee which is has many beachside hills. My street is steep coming out of it, and the motor/Zeva pull 180amps to climb. Short climb, then flat/downhill to Anzac Parade which is a 60-70kph arterial. No probs.. I sit on around 60amps on cruise on flat.
Down into the CrossCity tunnel and up over the Anzac Bridge, a rise which is not insignificant. At 70kph on the uphill grade, I pull 200-250 amps.
Still no problems, and I have plenty in reserve should I need to drag off a Porsche or something :)
Down through Balmain and park for the work day.
Interestingly my eXpertPro says I've use 22% of my pack for the 22 kilometers journey which is not a bad (random) calibration eh?

At the end of my day, I come up out of our work carpark , up a very steep driveway full of roadhumps and bumps (Balmain is crazed with speedhumps and my front springs no likey :), up Darling St (steep in places) through Balmain, back over Anzac Bridge, along freeway to Airport, off to Maroubra, past EastGardens Shopping Centre and up into Coogee and home, all at 60-80kph... still no problems.

If I try to push it and drive it hard, I'll be lucky to see the heat-overload warning LED flashing and if it does, I ease off the throttle and within 30 secs, it's back to green and ready to be abused again.
I love it.

3) Direct drive off from a standstill is NOT a tyre smoking solution. Once I hit 20kph however, I have easily twice the pick-up that I used to. From 40 to 70kph the van is very raw, and has a lot of grunt.
4) Simplicity. I put in the key, turn it, wait for a click, and its ready to drive. So so simple.
5) Old cars are loud anyways. Road and wind noise, squeaky suspension bushings and springs, body creaks, I never know how loud they are until now. It's a bit unnerving at first, but I'm learning the various sounds and actually has improved my driving style to be much smoother.
6) Old differentials do like having flywheels. My motor has none, so at speed I can hear the diff growling just on the overrun. I'm guessing its the cogs bounce-meshing at the pinion/crown interface, resonating along the driveshaft.
Am not quite sure what to do about it, but a tail-shaft guy says I can improve it by straightening up the tail shaft a bit. I'd like a silent diff but it's part and parcel of an old car.
7) I can feel that the driveshaft itself is out of balance, but only slightly and nothing I would have noticed as an ICE. Will fix soon.
8) I can hear the freakn tweety birds in the trees when I drive down the street. So minor, yet so pleasureable.
9) the Whirr of the Kostov fan has become my new companion. I've driven beside my wife's car for speed calibration and to gauge sound versus speed. I can now comfortably guess my roadspeed based on the pitch of the fan, so I'm now inclined to leave the fan alone to do its thing. Once I have the tacho/speedo in, and I'm absolute on fan tone, I doubt I'll even use it much.
and finally
10) I miss the excuse to drop into a petrol station for a snack. I actually do feel kind of guilty using their facilites at all, tyre air, windscreen wash, toilets etc since I'm only ever going to be stockin up on gum and Coke and maybe the odd brakefluid.

More ramblings to come once I get it certified.
When that days come, well, I'll be digging through my old drawer for something I bought a few years ago. The ubiquitous and long awaited silver/chrome letters to be mounted up next to the Morris Messenger chrome text on my rear door. E-L-E-C-T-R-I-C.

Canardly wait.

cheers
Last edited by gholm on Tue, 06 Sep 2011, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gholm » Wed, 07 Sep 2011, 04:48

Oh by the way. I took a cue from some of the other AEVA posts and have just made a Table of Contents at the start of this thread (way back on Page 1.)

Table of Contents

Definitely makes it easier to navigate around.

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Post by woody » Wed, 07 Sep 2011, 15:17

Awesome - looking forward to seeing it on the road!
gholm wrote: Ok almost ready to have this thing certified. I took it to Consulmotive the other day, and John mentioned his wish list for finalities.
Did he say anything about the new engineering certification scheme? Apparently the old system stopped a few weeks ago...
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Post by gholm » Wed, 07 Sep 2011, 22:26

Yep, he had plenty to say about it.

My understanding is that the current scheme doesn't end until the end of Sept. It was only online applications that finished on the 22nd Aug.

The whole change of scheme is a real sh*t fight for all the currently certified engineers.
Basically the RTA are stopping the scheme unilaterally without notifying or consulting with industry. All the currently certified engineers will have their certification revoked and then they will be invited to apply for a new certification, the details of which nobody yet knows, nor was consulted or warned about prior to 3months ago.

The whole vehicle modification industry is up in arms because their capacity to earn an income in future is genuinely at risk.
EVs are really a drop in the ocean, but any noise we can make as a collective would help the cause.

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Post by AMPrentice » Fri, 16 Sep 2011, 02:16

well done! this is a really lovely EV if only
manufacturers could take a leaf from this one
for some future vehicles aesthetics.
When and if you insulate from road noise it
will make a big difference and the diff it all
depends on the ratio but you can also source
a jp commercial or ford 9 inch and have the stud
pattern to suit your rims.
You can also use a sway bar to eliminate the
boat feel.
Also if you have a chance pls show off the Zeva
controller or a pic of where it lives.
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Post by gholm » Wed, 28 Sep 2011, 19:05

Exciting news!

After a few weeks of mad rush, finding and commissioning a new engineer (thanks John at Consulmotive!!)
obtaining a blue slip, then gathering all necessary docs (an incredulous amount), I have just walked out of the RTA office with a valid registration sticker which means MY VAN IS NOW LEGAL!!!

I'll write up a bit of a breakdown on the "gotchas" of that process when I get home tonight but I have to say I am so glad this is over the line with one day to spare before the whole Certification process changes.

Having finalised the controller box, I'll definitely post up some photos soon.

Feeling good.

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