Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Open for any sort of non-technical discussion regarding EVs
Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Wed, 15 Apr 2009, 19:54

Brisbane is hosting a Better Place and EV get-together. Saturday 16th May at 12.00pm at the Upper Mt Gravatt progress Hall. Anyone in Brissie at the time is welcome to come along and have a chat.

Here are the details.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eWvBTiRcDHo/S ... ation1.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eWvBTiRcDHo/S ... ation2.jpg
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Wed, 15 Apr 2009, 19:56

Grrrr. The links don't work.

Image

Image
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

User avatar
woody
Senior Member
Posts: 1713
Joined: Sat, 21 Jun 2008, 02:03
Real Name: Anthony Wood
Location: Mt Colah

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by woody » Wed, 15 Apr 2009, 20:57

Justin Sawell wrote: Grrrr. The links don't work.
Those images only worked for diyelectriccar forum members, I've uploaded them for all:

Image
Image

(had to reduce quality on second one it was too big)

cheers,
Woody
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack

Mr. Mik
Groupie
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri, 08 May 2009, 04:41
Location: Gold Coast, Aus

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Mr. Mik » Sat, 09 May 2009, 03:54

My main concern about swapping batteries is that they need to be looked after. Putting effort into giving your batteries a long, strong life is somewhat incompatible with throwing them back into the "pool" every now and then!
There is always a way if there is no other way!

User avatar
Thalass
Senior Member
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun, 12 Aug 2007, 07:29
Real Name: Ben Rypstra
Location: Perth, WA, AU

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Thalass » Sat, 09 May 2009, 05:02

MrMik: You could always do what friends of mine do with their bbq gas bottles: Fill them up at home (using their town gas supply and custom fittings), and then when the bottle is nearing it's test due date they swap for the youngest bottle they can find. :-P


So once your batteries are starting to wear out, you can pay for a swap at a station and get a nice new set. :-D
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

antiscab
Senior Member
Posts: 2409
Joined: Mon, 26 Nov 2007, 05:39
Real Name: Matthew Lacey
Location: Perth, WA

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by antiscab » Sat, 09 May 2009, 09:23

hahaha oh i long for the day i can do that.

btw, welcome to the forum Mik :)

Matt
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

priit
Groupie
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed, 14 May 2008, 22:04
Real Name: Priit Vosu
Location: Carrara, QLD
MSN: vedru@hotmail.com
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by priit » Mon, 11 May 2009, 22:44

I would like to add to the discussion that the swappable batteries may actually be slightly outdated by the time they get implemented. I believe by that time new and better ultra capacitors have been tested and could be in production.
This would allow using large enough capacitor banks in the car. Recharging those would take 5-10 minutes just enough to get a coffee or tea and ice-cream or sandwitch. This would probably make the hardware needed for the refuling stations simpler, would not require everyone to have same sized battery and would only require standardized connector on the car. This would work the same on all the converted cars and new ones. Also cars that were converted before good enough capacitors become available can swap their batteries out with capacitor banks once the batteries die.
Since the recharge is quick, the capacitors do not really need to be that huge. Also the capacitors can take way more charge/discharge cycles and do not mind getting totally depleted.
I have no idea how far the production of those EEStor capacitors have got, but if they can store 52.22 kWh of energy in a 127.71 kg capacitor bank as they claim, it would pretty much make the batteris obsolete in most electric cars.

Benonymous
Groupie
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri, 14 Mar 2008, 20:12
Real Name: Ben Roberts

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Benonymous » Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:08


User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3687
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by coulomb » Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:24

A reminder to Brisbane EVers: the "Better Place" presentation and informal EV meeting is this coming Saturday. Details here.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

Mr. Mik
Groupie
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri, 08 May 2009, 04:41
Location: Gold Coast, Aus

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Mr. Mik » Thu, 14 May 2009, 15:50

coulomb wrote: A reminder to Brisbane EVers: the "Better Place" presentation and informal EV meeting is this coming Saturday. Details here.


And Gold Coast!

I've got three recharging stops lined up to make it there!

A scenic route through the Hinterland.

There is always a way if there is no other way!

User avatar
MikeD
Groupie
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon, 21 Apr 2008, 14:38
Real Name: Michael Day
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by MikeD » Thu, 14 May 2009, 21:01

An intersting write-up on the Better Place plan.

www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetai ... -5_battery

MikeD

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Fri, 15 May 2009, 15:49

Just a request that anyone attending please bring as many extension cords as you can?

We may not need it but better safe than sorry!

See you all there tomorrow.
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3687
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by coulomb » Sun, 17 May 2009, 02:01

The inaugural BEVA (Brisbane Electric Vehicle Association) was a great success, with at least 50 (wild guess) people in attendance.



Image



Justin gave a nice speel about peak oil and the various alternatives to our present addiction to cheap oil:

Image



It was followed by a half hour or so talk by Ben from A Better Place. I believe that the audience was impressed by their professed enthusiasm for open standards, so converted EVs could make use of their charging infrastructure, and even their batteries if they wanted to. (Sorry, no photos of this part).



There were just three EVs present. The prize for the longest commute went to Mr Mik, who drove his Vectrix from the Gold Coast (~100km [ edit: actually 187 km! See later post] ) using several charging stops to get there (and the same on the way back, of course).

Image     Image



Shaun's Electric Echo was there:

Image     Image     Image



This is Jeff Owen's Honda City (http://www.evalbum.com/385):



Image     Image



Paul Gallatly (right) had his AC55 and controller to show. Sadly, he is likely having to sell it rather than complete it, due to the financial situation:

Image



Tritium James was there, with two mechanical engineers that have been helping him get a Honda Civic ready for the first Darwin to Adelaide non-solar EV race in October. He had the prototype 200 kW AC WaveSculpter controller there; a mighty fine piece of machinery, and much smaller and lighter than the industrial controllers Weber and I are looking at. Probably a lot cheaper, too. But it's not quite ready yet.



Unfortunately, I didn't get a photo of this; did anyone else?



Thanks to Justin for organising this; it was great. Thanks also to all who attended, it was great talking to you all. Let's do this again soon!
Last edited by coulomb on Thu, 03 Oct 2013, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

Mark T
Groupie
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri, 04 Jan 2008, 03:56
Real Name: Mark Taylor
Location: Sydney

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Mark T » Sun, 17 May 2009, 03:05

Congratulations on a successful meeting. Image

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by gpsnettrack » Sun, 17 May 2009, 04:43

Image   Guess who forgot Image

I dropped into work to do a backup and forgot

Alan

juk
Groupie
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun, 02 Mar 2008, 02:53
Real Name: Craig
Location: Perth

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by juk » Sun, 17 May 2009, 04:50

I see the bloke with the red car keeps a dozen Trojan's in there, nice.
:)

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Sun, 17 May 2009, 08:45

All I can say is...WOW

What an excellent turnout, great group of people and fantastic presentation by Guy and Ben.

I'd say at least 55 people were there based on seating, including a rep from the Qld Govt department of natural resources and alternative energy (not 100% sure about the dept name but you get the idea).

For those who missed out or are interstate, I'm putting out a request for a copy of all pics & video taken during the event. I'll also ask Ben for a copy of his powerpoint slideshow and video. This will all be bundled up and made available on CD/DVD in the next few weeks.

Judging by the response, the AEVA just had the Brisbane chapter resurrected today.
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

Justin Sawell
Noobie
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed, 08 Apr 2009, 17:47
Real Name: Justin Sawell
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Justin Sawell » Sun, 17 May 2009, 08:53

Image
At least 50 people were there

Image
Ben giving the BP presentation. I thought he was really good. Very easy to follow and listen to. Top marks!

Image
Very attentive audience

Image
Total chick - checking her makeup in the rearview mirror already!
The future of transport is electric. Get on board or get out of the way!

Mr. Mik
Groupie
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri, 08 May 2009, 04:41
Location: Gold Coast, Aus

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Mr. Mik » Sun, 17 May 2009, 13:38

coulomb wrote: There were just three EVs present. The prize for the longest commute went to Mr Mik, who drove his Vectra from the Gold Coast (~100km) using several charging stops to get there (and the same on the way back, of course).


187.3km in total...I'm not doing that again in a hurry!

Many thanks to the Outpost Cafe in Canungra, the Shell station at Tamborine Village, Justin (the meeting organiser) and the Canungra Motel for letting me charge there!

The Canungra ambulance station had also given me permission to plug in, but I did not need it.

Special thanks for the perseverance of the Canungra Outpost Cafe staff: When the Vectux tripped a circuit breaker twice and put their busy kitchen into the dark they kept working on it until enough lights were turned off to keep the circuit board happy!
The ICE motorbike riders there had a jolly good time making fun of me in a good natured way. When I was riding off again I thought that it must have been very similar for an early adopter of ICE motorbikes to travel overland. No doubt they had to listen to comments about how a horse will go much further and cause less trouble!
There is always a way if there is no other way!

gpsnettrack
Groupie
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue, 13 Jan 2009, 07:28
Real Name: Alan
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by gpsnettrack » Sun, 17 May 2009, 19:08




Full page on EV's in Todays ( Brisbane Sunday Paper )



Alan

Mr. Mik
Groupie
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri, 08 May 2009, 04:41
Location: Gold Coast, Aus

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Mr. Mik » Mon, 18 May 2009, 01:20

Here is a graph showing the charging energy consumption during and after the 187km ride:
Image

The data logger also calculates total power consumption and cost.

The energy sucked out of the grid to cover the entire distance was 16.39kWh.
At a cost of AU$0.14 per kWh that results in a "fuel" cost of AU$2.30 for 187km.
AU$2.3/187*100= AU$1.23/100km
AU$1.23/AU$1.11/L petrol = 1.11L petrol at current costs.

So unless I miscalculated somehow, the Vectux achieves the equivalent of 1.11L/100km fuel cost efficiency at current prices!

And how about the "8700km service" I had to do the day before: 5 minutes and a bit of compressed air will do to clean the motor encoder!
It took me a lot longer because I had to figure it out and go slow and take photos, of course, but next time it will take next to no time!
Encoder details here.
Last edited by Mr. Mik on Sun, 17 May 2009, 15:22, edited 1 time in total.
There is always a way if there is no other way!

cardboardtrent
Noobie
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 07 Jul 2008, 04:34
Location: Adelaide

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by cardboardtrent » Tue, 23 Mar 2010, 01:37

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I didn't think this warranted a new thread.

I happened to flick across to Inside Business on the ABC on the weekend and they had an interview with the CEO of Project Better Place Australia. He talks a little about the business side of the project and his thoughts on the future of electric cars in Australia.

Here is the text version. A link to the video is at the top of this article, or for this week only on the home page, and in the future on the 'Vodcast' page for the date 21/03/2010.

marcopolo
Groupie
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat, 27 Feb 2010, 20:57

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by marcopolo » Tue, 23 Mar 2010, 17:52

cardboardtrent wrote: I happened to flick across to Inside Business on the ABC on the weekend and they had an interview with the CEO of Project Better Place Australia. He talks a little about the business side of the project and his thoughts on the future of electric cars in Australia.


After studying the 'Better Place Plan', I have found it long on rhetoric, but very short on logistical detail. One claims is that Better Place will develop software that will ensure only 'Green power' from the national grid!

Am I the only cynic that finds this just a bit difficult to credit?

The idea of rolling out battery charging posts is hardly revolutionary. However, given Australia's large network of 240 volt power, the concept of charging for power at a premium, is probably unworkable. If it became profitable, the major power utilities would enter into competition, and there goes the profitability.

Better Place claims it has Federal Government support to conduct a charging post monopoly for EV usage. Nonsense, this would require major legislation. legislation to grant a monopoly would prove impossible to pass.

Better Place also claims to have an agreement to supply a standardised battery for EV swapping. This would be the only battery permitted.

Is it just me, or can anyone else see how undesirable such an uncompetitive, innovation restricting practise, would be? When challenged, Better place replied that all EV's would be of a standardised design in order to conform to the Better Place model!

IMHO the EV battery is probably only interim technology, and Better Place will be remembered as a very successful fund raiser, attempting to sell the EV equivalent of 8 track cassettes.

It is astonishing to see otherwise staid and conservative investors buying into the Better Place Hype.

User avatar
Johny
Senior Member
Posts: 3729
Joined: Mon, 23 Jun 2008, 16:26
Real Name: John Wright
Location: Melbourne
Contact:

Project Better Place No3 is Australia!

Post by Johny » Tue, 23 Mar 2010, 18:19

Johny wrote: Me thinks Better Place may end up making DIY EVs a worser place - all a bit fishy.
Agreed marco.

Post Reply