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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Fri, 24 Jan 2020, 18:55
by Roman khan
Some more pic

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Fri, 24 Jan 2020, 20:22
by coulomb
Roman khan wrote: Fri, 24 Jan 2020, 18:47 Hi coloumb this inverter( inverex vm 3.2) look like Vp 3kva( i think PIP HSE 3024) ,
I think it's closest to an Axpert VM3000-24 (PIP-3024MSE), but with higher rated (over rated?) inverter power and MPPT output current. All the Inverex models have custom metalwork; this one also has the more modern display (also customised for Inverex), whereas the Axpert and PIP at 3000 W have the older style display.
instead it has two coils circuit above dc-mosfet heat sink and high frequency transformer,
It seems to me to be above the AC and bus-side DC-DC converter IGBT heatsink, not quite touching the battery-side MOSFET heatsink.
and has display port near SSC mosfets where VP inverter has SSC card.
I'm not sure where the SCC MOSFETs are; are they the four MOSFETs inline with but separated from the battery-side MOSFET heatsink?
there is a second MCU on display panel card.
That is marked "MPPT control card" and seems to be a combined MPPT control and display interface board.
DC to DC converter side mosfets blown again and again.
I assume you mean the battery-side MOSFETs. Do you mean it works for some days or weeks before blowing up, or blows up within seconds of turning on? If the latter, then you likely haven't repaired all the gate driver components damage when the MOSFETs blow up.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sat, 25 Jan 2020, 11:23
by rexx
[Moderator note: This post continues from this post in the PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters topic.]
coulomb wrote: Sat, 18 Jan 2020, 19:01
rexx wrote: Sat, 18 Jan 2020, 14:48Charge input show en on the inverter kept falling over time till none at all
No fault code came up, open to any suggestions on the issue
What is the PV voltage when this is happening?

Also what is the battery voltage doing? Perhaps the battery is full, or has gone high internal resistance?
Hi Coulomb
been away from home last week
Battery voltage 48 to 50
PV voltage tried 80v running 2 panels x3 ; 120v 3 panels x3 and a single 250w panel 50v no go
this is a off the grid set up no gen in put
have a 250 w panel and small scc charging the battery pack to keep them charged up
What a new scc worth or is it cheaper to get stand alone charger then to fix the scc in the inverter
regards

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sat, 25 Jan 2020, 12:02
by coulomb
rexx wrote: Sat, 25 Jan 2020, 11:23 What a new scc worth or is it cheaper to get stand alone charger then to fix the scc in the inverter
My guess is that a replacement SCC would be well under $200, but availability of the old style SCC for PIP-4048s is unknown. It could also take some time to get one from MPPSolar, if they can and will supply one.

So an external MPPT might be the way to go.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 01:53
by Roman khan
@coulombwrote
I assume you mean the battery-side MOSFETs. Do you mean it works for some days or weeks before blowing up
Yes i mean battery side mosfets,they works for some days and blowing up.i replace them with csd19505 and make all drivers and replace 4427 ic ,but the same result. Mosfet along with driver transistors and resistors blow up.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 06:02
by daimyo
catalincre wrote: Wed, 30 Jan 2019, 16:35 Its shown in video, arctic f8 pwm, this are very quiet. Until now has only two times occurred the fan lock error. And thats long time ago. If you can live with that is fine, you have been warned. Don't forget to reorient the fan to blow upwards, the inverter is much cooler.
Hi again, :D

Does anyone knows how to resolder original fan connector to Arctic fan?

Arctic fan has black-yellow-green-blue wires and original fan has black-yellow-red-blue wires.

Today have change direction of fans in one inverter and on low power consumption there is a 14 degrees difference... 27 to 41 degrees... just for blowing air in different direction. :)

Thank you.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 08:41
by coulomb
Roman khan wrote: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 01:53 i replace them with csd19505 and make all drivers and replace 4427 ic ,but the same result. Mosfet along with driver transistors and resistors blow up.
I would replace all 4 (?) of the large capacitors protecting the battery-side MOSFETs with parts that have a high ripple current rating, low 100 kHz impedance, 105°C temperature rating, and preferably a long rated life (5000 h, 10 000 h if possible). See this post for some clues; it refers to 48 V models, so make appropriate adjustments.

[ Edit: added low 100kHz impedance. Thanks, Weber. ]

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 08:44
by coulomb
daimyo wrote: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 06:02 Does anyone knows how to resolder original fan connector to Arctic fan?
This post may be helpful. Available from the index.

Edit: but take note of this post, where Weber put back the original fans due to intermittent fan locked warnings. Also available from the index in the first post of this topic.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 14:53
by daimyo
coulomb wrote: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 08:44
daimyo wrote: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 06:02 Does anyone knows how to resolder original fan connector to Arctic fan?
This post may be helpful. Available from the index.

Edit: but take note of this post, where Weber put back the original fans due to intermittent fan locked warnings. Also available from the index in the first post of this topic.
Have seen this post... but original fan has other arrangement of wires then AMD... will try to connect them by colours and see.

I do not have any other sollution but to replace fan because it is not working. :x

Thank you

EDIT:

Have replaced one fan by recommended scheme... no error for now. :D

if error occure I am considering to buy this fan and try it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-ADDA-Fan ... 2397830057

Once again thank you!

Best regards

T

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 04:19
by solamahn
New type scc boards can be fitted to old type 4048ms with the big black heatsink. Leave the heatsink but remove the old scc pcb. Mount the new type scc pcb between the 2 main board heatsinks sand connect to the 2 inductors which remain on the big black heatsink

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Posted: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 05:55
by daimyo
solamahn wrote: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 04:19 New type scc boards can be fitted to old type 4048ms with the big black heatsink. Leave the heatsink but remove the old scc pcb. Mount the new type scc pcb between the 2 main board heatsinks sand connect to the 2 inductors which remain on the big black heatsink
Hi,

What is the difference between old and new ssc board?

Thank You and best regards

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 08:44
by coulomb
daimyo wrote: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 05:55 What is the difference between old and new ssc board?
Basically, the new board is much longer, the new SCC heatsink is better positioned in front of the fans, and the PV terminal block connects to the SCC PCB via a pair of metal bars attached to the PCB.

Old board (sorry for the poor photo, all I could find in a hurry):
Image
The two SCC inductors are one on top of the other at the top left of the box. The SCC PCB is all at the top of the box.


New board:
Image
The SCC inductors are much further apart, and the SCC PCB takes up nearly the full height of the box.

Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Posted: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 09:22
by solamahn
New type scc pcb USD59

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 21:54
by cdaubern
I have a 2015 PIP4048, It is switching on and off from startup, I have tested the Battery supply and the 5V,12V and -12V is switching correctly, had this fault before and changed all 3 opto couplers at the supply but this time it is not the fault, I have changed the controll card as well with a working unit but without any change. Any help will be appreciated.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 10:07
by coulomb
cdaubern wrote: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 21:54 I have a 2015 PIP4048, It is switching on and off from startup,
It might be the circuit involved in keeping the supply going after C7 has recharged. That really only involves D57 (and its snubber RC), and D49.

Does the +15 V supply come up? If so, that only leaves D49, if this is the mechanism for not starting.

But it could be because something is turning on the transistor in opto-coupler U8; this is what turns off the power supply when the inverter wants to turn off completely.

Is it possible that this is the firmware turning off the power supply? It will turn off the power supply some 30 seconds after switch-on if the rocker switch is off, and there are no charge sources (PV-in and AC-in). Can you see both icons on the LC Display? You didn't say how soon the power goes off after it comes on.

If one of those icons isn't coming on, then the problem lies with the sense circuit for these (assuming that you do have a charge source), or it's not reading the rocker switch properly (so the switch itself, R258, R259).

I assume you're using my partial schematic trace of the main power supply.

Edit: another possibility is that the firmware starts switching some MOSFETs or IGBTs, and these cause a collapse of the power supply for some reason. But you say you've checked the battery voltage. Perhaps a driver transistor or chip effectively short circuits its power supply when it turns on.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 14:28
by weber
Roman khan wrote: Sun, 26 Jan 2020, 01:53 Yes i mean battery side mosfets,they works for some days and blowing up.i replace them with csd19505 and make all drivers and replace 4427 ic ,but the same result. Mosfet along with driver transistors and resistors blow up.
You need to replace the DC bus capacitors that are associated with the MOSFETs. Coulomb and paulvk seem to forget there are two DC busses in these inverters. One on each side of the main DC-DC converter. They spoke of the 400 V bus referred to in the error messages, but your problem is with the bus that operates at the battery voltage.

These battery-side DC bus capacitors will be close to the heatsink that carries the MOSFETs, but on the opposite side from the MOSFETs. I can see one of these capacitors in your photo. I have indicated it with a yellow arrow. I have added other yellow arrows showing where I guess another three bus capacitors might be. But maybe there are only two.

BatteryBusCaps.png
BatteryBusCaps.png (416.66 KiB) Viewed 2196 times

If you tell me everything that is written on these capacitors, and what their dimensions are (diameter, height, lead spacing) then I can suggest an upgraded replacement.

Also, what was the part number of the original MOSFETs?

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 22:38
by daimyo
coulomb wrote: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 08:44
daimyo wrote: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 05:55 What is the difference between old and new ssc board?
Basically, the new board is much longer, the new SCC heatsink is better positioned in front of the fans, and the PV terminal block connects to the SCC PCB via a pair of metal bars attached to the PCB.

Old board (sorry for the poor photo, all I could find in a hurry):

The two SCC inductors are one on top of the other at the top left of the box. The SCC PCB is all at the top of the box.


New board:

The SCC inductors are much further apart, and the SCC PCB takes up nearly the full height of the box.
Uff... :P Significant upgrade. :shock:

Thank you Coulomb for info! ;)

[ Edited Coulomb: removed images from quoting. ]

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Wed, 29 Jan 2020, 22:39
by daimyo
solamahn wrote: Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 09:22 New type scc pcb USD59
From where do you get spare parts? :roll:

Thank You.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 04:11
by lopezjm2001
I have been waiting for about a year for a new SCC board (my old one has a heat sink) which blew up from mppsolar in Taiwan. Sounds like the SCC boards are having a high failure rate.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 05:50
by paulvk
lopezjm2001 wrote: Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 04:11 I have been waiting for about a year for a new SCC board (my old one has a heat sink) which blew up from mppsolar in Taiwan. Sounds like the SCC boards are having a high failure rate.
Myself and a friend have been running six PIP4048 for more than 5 years and I have not needed my spare units yet
I think the problem of failures is heat.
I have 12v 120mm fans on top of the heat sinks running at 9 volts this cools the whole inverter.
Before adding the top fans the heatsink go very hot over 40 deg now its only just warm.
In one installation of my pairs where it gets hotter I have two 120mm fans over the top air vents on each inverter drawing air out
these are controlled by temperature controls with a sensor placed in the 230v inverter side heatsink
it keeps the heatsink below 46 deg C

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 07:57
by solamahn
Peggy at MPPSolar Taiwan for parts
Skype mppsolar01

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 13:37
by Roman khan
@webwer wrote
there are two DC busses in these inverters. One on each side of the main DC-DC converter. They spoke of the 400 V bus referred to in the error messages, but your problem is with the bus that operates at the battery voltage.
I do not understand how there are two dc busses,I am shairing pic without mppt coil below.
Capacitors which you have indicated they are 35v 1000uf i think they are associated with mppt side of inverter.there are 4 battery side capacitors 35v 42000uf you can see in picture below.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Thu, 30 Jan 2020, 15:13
by weber
@Roman khan Good photos. The capacitors for the battery-voltage DC bus are certainly not where I expected them to be. Can you post a photo of the tracks on the underside of the board. And also post the text on the 35 V 1000 µF capacitors. It's likely that all six of these 35 V caps are across the battery-voltage DC bus.

The 400 V or 500 V capacitors for the high-voltage DC bus (assuming 230 Vac output) must be on the other side of the large heatsink from the 35 V 4200 µF capacitors. But we shouldn't need to change these.

Part number of original MOSFETS?

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 02 Feb 2020, 19:06
by Roman khan
  • weber wrote
Can you post a photo of the tracks on the underside of the board. And also post the text on the 35 V 1000 µF capacitors. It's likely that all six of these 35 V caps are across the battery-voltage DC bus.

Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Posted: Sun, 02 Feb 2020, 19:10
by Roman khan
@weber
Some more pic
The three 35v 4200uf capacitors are in line near battery fuse 150.negitive side of capacitor is connected to the source of mosfets csd19505.the positive side of capacitor is connected at secondry side of transformer.which has 0 resistance with drain of mosfets 19505.