jonescg's home battery storage system

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jonescg
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by jonescg »

T1 Terry wrote: Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 10:38
You can even set 3 of the inverters up to provide 3 phase power if you want and double up on the number of inverters on the single phase you want to power the rest of the house from, so a mix and match approach is quite possible. Each inverter has an 80 amp max output MPPT controller built in and additional 60 amp output controllers can be added as required.

T1 Terry
Yeah I know the ones - they look solid but I don't have the real estate on the wall of the house unfortunately - otherwise they are a good option.
I'm confident the GW5000-ES inverter can work, provided almost all of the loads are on the same phase as the inverter. I'm happy to have the shed on its own 32 A, single phase supply off the grid since I rarely put big loads on that circuit. It would be a good sport for a 32 A EV charger, and just charge the car on a simple 10 or 15 A supply most nights.
So long as there's about 6 kW of PV I can shift some loads to the middle of the day.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by jonescg »

Hi Everyone,

I plan on selling this Power Cabinet as I really can't use it in a household situation (bit daggy really). It stores an honest 8 kWh.

Happy to sell the cabinet complete for $2000 ONO. Doesn't include the inverter as that's not mine, but it can include the charger if you need it.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Hmmmm...... If I'd known that was the price, I would have bought it while we were over there and found a spot in the Hino some where so we could bring them home. Freight would probably make it prohibitive now, the premium on shipping lithium batteries is the killer.

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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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T1 Terry wrote: Wed, 24 Apr 2019, 18:54 Hmmmm...... If I'd known that was the price, I would have bought it while we were over there and found a spot in the Hino some where so we could bring them home. Freight would probably make it prohibitive now, the premium on shipping lithium batteries is the killer.

T1 Terry
I believe we did discuss it in the shed, but your other half indicated something along the lines of "You already have enough batteries Terry!" :P
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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By the way, shipping to SA might be about $200 by road freight.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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I ended up buying Rob Dean's AVASS battery for my home storage needs, using the proceeds from the sale of my PowerCabinet.

Since it will be a while before I am ready to install it, I put them all in parallel and started charging at about 18 amps and 3.7 volts.

I would check the voltage periodically and adjust down as they approached the maximum set point. Eventually I had a 7300 Ah cell at 3.54 volts.

Now there should be no trouble with maintaining balance on this pack.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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I am a bit closer to enacting my home storage and solar system here in Kalamunda.
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I have recently acquired 7.8 kW (peak) of solar using Canadian Solar CSI-K-280 W panels I bought for $1900 from an auction. Easy to remove from the back of the ute when you have a hoist :)
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These are a split panel with 120 cells, or two half panels of 60 cells each, in parallel. So it manages with shade a little better than otherwise. You can see one off to the right of the above image.
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I plan on installing 14 in series on each side of the house - one east one west. Conduit and saddles to keep the pedants happy.
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The isolator is a 4-pole unit so I can switch both off with a single unit. Best of all the array is 3 m away so I don't need a silly rooftop firestarter.
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At least I'll have the panels up and the isolator wired up ahead of the front awning being built. This will be a skillion roof from the front of the house which provides a bit of shelter on the northern side, and it protects the inverter and battery from excessive sun/rain. Once this is built I can start to make plans for the inverter and battery.

So far I'm not seeing any disadvantage to the MPI 10 kW inverter. It does 3-phase, it charges a 48 V battery, it's got DRM options, it even exports to the grid. My major AC loads are the air conditioner (4 kW) the shed (up to 6 kW, but typically less) and an EV charger (up to 7 kW). At least two of these will be on at the same time on occasion.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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That is a darn good price on the panels. I might have to start frequenting auctions!
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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I thought I did well at $3,600 for 10kW of Tindo series 3 panels second hand. They are 250w panels, so 40 of them to build the 10kW array. Picked them up with the VW Kombi on the really hot day SA started to burn itself to the ground. Way too hot to be travelling in a vehicle without air con, but the air cooled motor handled the long climb up the Adelaide hills easily ..... just not fast :lol:

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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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So it looks like the DRM0 condition is the only requirement from Western Power - the ability for them to disconnect the inverter during times of high voltages and low demand. All other DRM conditions are 'nice-to-haves' at this stage.
So does the MPI 10 kW inverter have that feature? Or is it purely voltage dependent? That is, it will simply stop exporting power when the AC line voltage exceeds 260 V AC? Pretty sure they want the option of telecoms to switch it off...
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Made a good start on the solar for my house - all fixed down and wired up. I have 14 in series on the east, same again on the west. The cable entry point to the roof is under the last panel, which was one panel further forward than it should have been, hence there's 12 panels on the upper row, and just two on the lower. I have room for one more panel on each roof just to bump the operating voltage up a bit. My goal was to keep them further back as best I can because of the large shady Marri tree to the north of the house, but it's probably not going to make a huge difference.
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The grout has fallen out of the ridge capping after 40 years, so I reckon it's time to get that fixed shortly...
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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'The grout has fallen out of the ridge capping after 40 years, so I reckon it's time to get that fixed shortly..'

I was sorry I did not get the (concrete tile) roof painted and pointed before the PV array was mounted.
It appears you made the same mistake......what a nuisance (never mind he won the cup!)

Cheers every body, happy new year.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Well things are slowly ticking along here - I have the building permit from the council to build a small patio out the front which will protect the inverter and batteries from the sun and rain.
I'm yet to be convinced otherwise, but the MPI 10 kW hybrid inverter looks like the winner.
MPI HYBRID10KW-manual-20180301 (1).pdf
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I notice on the recommended wiring diagram, for "Grid-tie II" it suggests that the relay output could be used as a changeover between grid and inverter should the grid drop out (blackout). But as drawn the neutral is switched. I thought the sensible thing is to leave the neutrals tied like so in blue:
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by paulvk »

I thought the sensible thing is to leave the neutrals tied like so in blue:
In a number of countries the inverter must totally disconnect from the grid which is a safety concern for those working on the poles.
Without a proper earth on the neutral 125 volts or more can be put out on the neutral
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by antiscab »

That's a tricky one - you're not supposed to disconnect the grid neutral from the MEN, but you definitely want the inverter neutral connected to the MEN

how are automatic change over switches normally wired?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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OK looks like they can be tied, if they aren't already tied internally.

I am intrigued by the AC wiring though. It would seem to me that the MPI10K inverter is basically a solar/battery off-grid inverter which features a grid connection so that it may export power once the battery is full. The MODBUS card allows you to mix and match consumption from the grid should demand exceed the inverters 3.3 kW per phase limit. Not that any one load in my house will exceed 3 kW (maybe the A/C or the EV charger).

I will need to mount the inverter inside its own IP56 box too, as it seems being outdoors (but under cover) is still a bit too dusty and humid for it.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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I was wondering if it's possible to run my single phase, ~3 kW air conditioning unit on three phase, and if that would help spread the total load across all three phases of the hybrid inverter's output.

The A/C unit is a Fujitsu DC inverter type, so it's after a ~340 V DC bus (I assume). Would it not be possible to supply this same bus with rectified 3-phase?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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jonescg wrote: Wed, 08 Apr 2020, 09:22 The A/C unit is a Fujitsu DC inverter type, so it's after a ~340 V DC bus (I assume). Would it not be possible to supply this same bus with rectified 3-phase?
Rectified 3 phase comes to just under 600 V; that's why trams (light rail) often ran at 600 VDC. The IGBTs may well not be rated for 600 V operation.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Hmm, might need to pull the A/C apart before it gets too cold and take a look. It might be possible to source a 3-phase VFD from a larger unit and adapt...
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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So this is where the inverter will go, and the battery will be installed in front of the old chimney stack.
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With a bit of lousy MS Paint skillz I predict it will look a bit like this:
inverter battery placement.jpg
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The inverter will have to go inside an IP Enclosure with vents cut in the top and a baffle added for keeping dust out. Likewise some vents will need to be added to the bas of the enclosure to allow decent airflow. A shame they couldn't make these inverters a little more robust.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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jonescg wrote: Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 17:19 the battery will be installed in front of the old chimney stack.
Um, do you still use the fireplace at all? Heat from the fire is bad for the inverter and especially the battery.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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coulomb wrote: Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 18:35
jonescg wrote: Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 17:19 the battery will be installed in front of the old chimney stack.
Um, do you still use the fireplace at all? Heat from the fire is bad for the inverter and especially the battery.
Nah, it currently serves as a liquor cabinet :)
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by nuggetgalore »

jonescg wrote: Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 18:37
coulomb wrote: Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 18:35
jonescg wrote: Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 17:19 the battery will be installed in front of the old chimney stack.
Um, do you still use the fireplace at all? Heat from the fire is bad for the inverter and especially the battery.
Nah, it currently serves as a liquor cabinet :)
Cut a door into the chimney from the outside and place the inverter inside.
Only half joking because I was thinking to re-purpose my chimney to put my EVSE inside rather than making a cabinet (admittedly the lounge floor is well above the drive way). Decided against it only because the carport gives enough weather protection.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Yeah, I would be happy with it being directly on the wall without the enclosure, because the patio will be covered with a roof. But it's not going to be closed in like a room inside the house. I suspect any humidity would cause dust to cake up pretty fast.
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This goes inside that...

With some holes cut out top and bottom for ventilation, obviously. That will be interesting.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by brendon_m »

You could bring the battery into the fireplace, that would help it to keep cool/warm. And if the cells burn to the ground what better place to have it :D
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