jonescg's home battery storage system

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brendon_m
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by brendon_m »

Looking good, with days like today that looks like a nice place to sit out and relax.

When does the inverter go in?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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It can be mounted on the wall anytime. Preferably now according to Katherine (it's been on the dining table for a few weeks now). But Brendan will be wiring it all up on the 5th or 6th of September. Clean sailing with WP so far.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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After having the inverter sit on the dining table for about three weeks longer than Katherine was happy with, I finally stuck it on the wall.
Minor adjustment to the battery cables and it was good to go. Last few things are for Brendan to do - pull through the AC cables, as well as the EZ-Meter data cable. I might use the battery BMS cable later on if I find the user-defined system isn't working well.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Just a query about the back up circuit and the grid connect circuit.
The line diagram provided back here https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=80221#p80221 was reviewed and approved by Western Power.
However, Brendan suggested a changeover switch might be prudent.
I'm guessing it's because should the inverter crap out, anything supplied by the backup circuit won't work. So while the inverter is away for repairs, I'd have hot water, a shed, aircon and an EV charger, but no lights or GPOs... So I gather the changeover switch might go in the meter box, with a mains and an inverter supply (via the RCBO) should that ever happen?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by Cowardlyduck »

Yeah a changeover switch/relay is the way to go. Get an automatic one though otherwise you have to monitor for when power comes back on.
I'm at the stage now where I'm looking to get one installed. Not going to do it myself as it involves touching the live mains pre-breaker.
Let us know what you end up doing.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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I was looking at the single line diagram. I assume the EZ power meter is only measuring the phase that the inverter output is connected to and not all 3 phases.
How do you set the 3kw export limit?
I have been having some trouble with my inverter in that if the load changes it takes a long time to zero so if there is for example a 4kw being drawn from the battery (say the stove at night) then when the stove is turned off the inverter keeps pumping out 4kw for a considerable amount of time before it drops the output. So in essence it sells power from the battery to the grid.
There have been times when we have lots of loads running like say washing machine and microwave and so on and they are turning on and off then it some times doesn't drop the output for a while. It seems slower to drop the output power than it takes to ramp up.
There was a time that it sold 2.5kw for 5min before it stopped. About 0.2kwh and this was at night. I hope we can find a way around it.
I contacted Goodwe and the guy told me it was the battery causing the problem.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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The 3-phase GW3000 EZ-Meter monitors load on all three phases and pushes current down the phase the inverter is connected to in order to match it. So 1 kW on L1, 1.5 kW on L2 and 0.5 kW on L3, it will respond by pushing 3 kW back down the phase it's tied to, plus whatever else is available, up to 5 kW total. So in this case, if the battery was full it would push 5 kW; 3 kW to power the loads and 2 kW of export.
At times of low household load and a full battery, it might be able to push 5 kW, but is programmed to only export 3 kW. It's a setting mentioned back a few pages on the app.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Cowardlyduck wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 14:58 Yeah a changeover switch/relay is the way to go. Get an automatic one though otherwise you have to monitor for when power comes back on.
I'm at the stage now where I'm looking to get one installed. Not going to do it myself as it involves touching the live mains pre-breaker.
Let us know what you end up doing.
Cheers
Shouldn't need an automatic one I wouldn't think. I'd know immediately that the inverter crapped out and would change it over right away.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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I had my backup circuit wired to the kitchen and lights and it works well, in my messing around I kept losing those circuits which was a pain but I figured if the inverter crapped itself long term I'd just link the inverter grid circuit to the backup output while I waited for repairs. Not desirable to have to do something like that but Im not expecting the inverter to fail
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Does that mean that if you are consuming 2kw on phase 1 and nothing on say phase 2 and your inverter is connected to phase 2 then it will try to push 2kw out thru phase 2.
Will the electricity company then sell you 2kw at full price then buy 2kw from you at feed in tariff price or will it consider it balanced and not charge you anything?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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francisco.shi wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 15:52 Does that mean that if you are consuming 2kw on phase 1 and nothing on say phase 2 and your inverter is connected to phase 2 then it will try to push 2kw out thru phase 2.
Will the electricity company then sell you 2kw at full price then buy 2kw from you at feed in tariff price or will it consider it balanced and not charge you anything?
Because the electricity company only reads total power out and total power in, across any and all phases.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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You mean they only read power in or out for all the phases together.
They do not measure each phase individually. Right?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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francisco.shi wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 16:48 You mean they only read power in or out for all the phases together.
They do not measure each phase individually. Right?
Correct, they don't care what phase carried how much current (although it can be determined). They only care about total energy imported or exported and at what time of day.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by nuggetgalore »

jonescg wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 17:07

Correct, they don't care what phase carried how much current (although it can be determined). They only care about total energy imported or exported and at what time of day.
Some distributors have a phase unbalance limit. But your export limit is probably too small for that to apply, if it would apply in WA at all.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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nuggetgalore wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 19:54
jonescg wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 17:07

Correct, they don't care what phase carried how much current (although it can be determined). They only care about total energy imported or exported and at what time of day.
Some distributors have a phase unbalance limit. But your export limit is probably too small for that to apply, if it would apply in WA at all.

Yeah, and for me that's 3 kW. Without the battery it would have been 2.5 kW. Given I'll consume almost everything I generate most of the year, exports will be bugger all.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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jonescg wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 19:57Given I'll consume almost everything I generate most of the year, exports will be bugger all.
Ha! No thrippence for you then! :P

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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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francisco.shi wrote: Thu, 03 Sep 2020, 15:06 I contacted Goodwe and the guy told me it was the battery causing the problem.
Well that's a good dodge isn't it.

I've seen my inverter do much the same (though not as extreme) but for me it didn't seem to be related to a load turning off (well not directly that I noticed). It seems to happen more when the house isn't drawing much, my guess is the inverter has trouble zeroing at low loads.

The most I've sold is ≈0.15kWh out of my battery to the grid in a single day. Not enough for me to worry and being on the big boy 7¢ FIT I get 1.05¢ for my trouble.

First I should look into the 100W unaccounted for, vampire drain my house seems to have :? ...
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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The GW has a quiescent load of about 100 W which comes from the grid at all times, unless the grid is disconnected and it's running in backup mode. Price you have to pay I think.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Loom for any other things that may be plugged in like fridge, phone chargers, desktop computer, TV ... even if they are on standby they still use a small amount of power which adds up.

About the inverter selling power out of the battery. I wonder if there is some rules about how fast inverters are expected to react. It may be to help the grid. But I don't see how the Goodwe inverter is helping. If I have a load that turns off it immediately starts sending energy to the grid which is not what I think will help the grid. In my view the faster the inverter reacts to keep the input/output to zero the better it is for the grid.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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jonescg wrote: Fri, 04 Sep 2020, 07:28 The GW has a quiescent load of about 100 W which comes from the grid at all times, unless the grid is disconnected and it's running in backup mode. Price you have to pay I think.
This is what I was expecting it to be because I never noticed the draw before the goodwe went in.
francisco.shi wrote: Fri, 04 Sep 2020, 08:23 Loom for any other things that may be plugged in like fridge, phone chargers, desktop computer, TV ... even if they are on standby they still use a small amount of power which adds up.
I can agree with that. A while back I got a power meter and started tracking down drains and found that if I left everything on my entertainment unit (TV, VCR, DVD etc) on 'standby' it pulled 850W :shock:. On the plus side I've always turned the main switch off on devices, the meter just justified my paranoia.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by nuggetgalore »

Brendon wrote:

I can agree with that. A while back I got a power meter and started tracking down drains and found that if I left everything on my entertainment unit (TV, VCR, DVD etc) on 'standby' it pulled 850W :shock:. On the plus side I've always turned the main switch off on devices, the meter just justified my paranoia.
I remember when I and some friends living close by got our PV. The paranoia (in hindsight) was
a joke, except for the poor people who had to suffer us solar nazis!
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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How is the installation going?
Have you got the inverter and battery running yet?
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Hmm, well not yet, but progress was made.

I learned the difference between doing it right and doing it to code. I installed an AC isolator box destined to have an RCBO and an MCB for the backup and grid connect supplies respectively, after blasting a 28 mm hole through the wall behind it. Brendan arrives and measures it 900 mm off the ground. No good - code says it must be 1200 :x . In any case he re-drilled three new holes - backup, grid connection and the data line for the EZ meter.
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I have now bogged up the giant hole...

Then he asks about rooftop isolators - I said no, because they are close enough to the inverter that it shouldn't need them. He did have a good point though - if they didn't see them on the roof, they will start asking why, and probably bust out the tape measure. OK, I'll install the rooftop firestarters. Did you use HD conduit? What's that? :x :x :x
So I spent half a day in the roof pulling the regular conduit out and re-running HD conduit with SOLAR written on it.
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Thankfully all of my re-work never held Brendan up, as he was plenty busy in my switchboard. The switchboard was fairly neat, but busy. The reason I put the isolator box where I did was to free up more room in the meter box, but in the end we had to put everything inside anyway. We pulled out a few unnecessary breakers and consolidated a few others, and then made sure the isolators for the backup and the grid connection were in there too.

I had to leave at 5:30 to get to the branch meeting, and Katherine said Brendan worked until 8 pm in the switchboard. After a loud bang, which was the sound of the EZ-Meter blowing up, he called it for the night and will come up next week some time to finish it... After sourcing a new EZ-meter. I suspect it was not wired in correctly or something? Either way, no solar and no battery in use just yet. The shed solar is still in place, but I'll have to work out how to use it off-grid.

Brendan is pretty sure there needs to be a changeover switch for the back up circuits, and believes that the back-up circuits need their own switchboard with their own MEN and their own earth stake. I'm fairly sure that's not necessary as the backed up circuit is actually supplied by the inverter directly, which already shares a MEN with the grid connection. Ideally we can just use the backup supply to run the lights, GPO west and GPO east with a single position RCD and three MCBs.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

Post by mark_hetho »

I know this is just anecdotal but we didn't need a seperate changeover switch with our Redback based system (NSW, 2016 regulations). As far as I have seen It is all shared neutral and earth, with only the active being seperately swtiched. The inverter manages the upstream islanding, and supplying power to the downstream power circuits. The inverter can etiher pass through power to the backup circuits from the grid, or supply them from solar/battery. So I guess it is the changeover switch. We definitely don't have seperate switch board.
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Re: jonescg's home battery storage system

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Well for more anecdotal evidence I live 10mins(20 by moke) from @jonescg and had the same inverter as him installed a few months back. No changeover, no extra switchboard.
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