PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 13:43

My inverter just stopped working. It shows error 90, no error 90 is included in the manual. Does anybody know what error 90 means?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kPJ5I ... jJx6eX2ate
Last edited by lopezjm2001 on Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 19:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:46

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 13:43
My inverter just stopped working. It shows error 90, no error 90 is included in the manual. Does anybody know what error 90 means?
It's not documented anywhere, so no one knows for sure. You can read my wild speculation here:
http://powerforum.co.za/topic/1865-axpe ... r-code-90/

Unfortunately, if I'm right, you'll have to take it up with your supplier, and ask pointed questions about the legality of the firmware. [ Edit: However, error 90 can also happen when using firmware versions 73.00 or 73.00a, in perfectly legitimate Voltronic Power hardware, if it came from the factory with firmware earlier than 73.00. ]


Unfortunately also, again if I'm right, the firmware will have locked out firmware updating. [ Edit: I got that part wrong. It seems that you can load new firmware while showing an error 90 (fault code 90). So to fix this error, update to any compatible firmware other than 73.00 or 73.00a. See also Attention Firmware Updaters.]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:02

coulomb wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:46
Unfortunately, if I'm right, you'll have to take it up with your supplier, and ask pointed questions about the legality of the firmware. Unfortunately also, again if I'm right, the firmware will have locked out firmware updating.
My inverter is still communicating with Watchpower. I have sent an email to my supplier MPPSolar on Ebay. Also sent the email to peggy@mppsolar.com.

Maybe upgrading my firmware from 73.00a to 73.00b will fix the problem.

Thanks.

UPDATE: I just updated the firmware to 73.00b and the error 90 disappeared. WTF!!!! Looks like firmware 73.00a was dodgy....

UPDATE: The inverter works but the SCC no longer works.
Last edited by lopezjm2001 on Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 11:08, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 10:03

Installing the firmware update 73.00b made the error 90 disappear and the inverter section is now working but the SCC part no longer works. Any advice?

WatchPower is showing Secondary CPU version 00000.00. - not good. Looks like I will have to install my old PCM 60X to do the SCC job. I bought my PIP4048MS in 2015.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 11:00

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:02
UPDATE: I just updated the firmware to 73.00b and the error 90 disappeared. Now it is fully working. WTF!!!! Looks like firmware 73.00a was dodgy.... 8-), I spent most of my Saturday pulling my PIP4048MS to pieces looking for a fault and then putting it back together and then find out it was some sort of firmware issue. Thanks. :(
I'm sorry to hear you wasted all that time. But I don't understand why you didn't first search this thread for "error 90", to find that we posted the solution a month ago.

No, there was nothing wrong with 73.00a (the original 73.00 has the same behaviour). They just weren't meant to run on older hardware. But 73.00b works around that.
UPDATE: The inverter works but the SCC no longer works.
Have you tried a complete power-down? Disconnect all power sources from the PIP including battery, AC in and PV in. Wait for it to go completely dark and quiet, count to 10, then power it back up again.

If that doesn't work: Did you also update your SCC firmware from what originally came with the inverter? What version did it come with? What version was in it when the error 90 happened? You might be able to fix it by reloading the older SCC firmware. Or by reloading the same SCC firmware you had in it. See
viewtopic.php?p=64096#p64096
viewtopic.php?title=pip4048ms-inverter& ... 332#p59274
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:00

[ Edit Coulomb: Arrgh! I've edited instead of quoted again. Sigh. Most of the post is missing, sorry. ]

The SCC firmware is showing as 00000.00 and PV volts=0 and PV watts=0 during the day. It's like the SCC is dead.
Last edited by lopezjm2001 on Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:54, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:27

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:00
I am having trouble running the software for downloading firmware to the SCC.
Did you see the section on Updating the SCC at the end of this long post.
viewtopic.php?p=64096#p64096
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:55

weber wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:27
Did you see the section on Updating the SCC at the end of this long post.
viewtopic.php?p=64096#p64096
The msdos does not recognise the command regsvr32.exe.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Wsd6s ... unT6gYjxG_
I read the SOP and have used msdos before in the old days before windows started. I am using Windows 10 and I get these debug errors. May have to go to windows XP.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:31

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 16:55
I am using Windows 10 and I get these debug errors. May have to go to windows XP.
Googling the error message brings up many sites with solutions.
Here's one:
https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/fix-not ... l-command/
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:40

lopezjm2001 wrote: The SCC firmware is showing as 00000.00 and PV volts=0 and PV watts=0 during the day. It's like the SCC is dead.
Under these conditions, I don't think you can update the SCC firmware. I assume you've checked for ≥ 60 VDC at the PV input with a multimeter?
The msdos does not recognise the command regsvr32.exe.
A command prompt window isn't quite the same as MS-DOS, but they appear to work much the same from the user's point of view. Just change to the directory with the regsvr32.exe file (i.e. use a cd command).
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:45

coulomb wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:40
Under these conditions, I don't think you can update the SCC firmware. I assume you've checked for ≥ 60 VDC at the PV input with a multimeter?
Yeap, measured about 100v DC.
coulomb wrote:
Sun, 29 Apr 2018, 17:40
A command prompt window isn't quite the same as MS-DOS, but they appear to work much the same from the user's point of view. Just change to the directory with the regsvr32.exe file (i.e. use a cd command).
This time I ran CMD as an administrator and it all worked. This time it registered the .OCX file. I got the IAP program running now, connected to com 1, loaded file and MCU and is now parsing after I press the "FLASH" button. Then times out after 19 seconds. I Just need daylight to test it. Will try tomorrow. Thanks.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Mon, 30 Apr 2018, 15:01

lopezjm2001 wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 21:02
UPDATE: The inverter works but the SCC no longer works.
After an unsuccessful try at downloading a firmware update to the SCC I checked the plugs and this time I actually read the PCB markings and realised that I had the two four pin plugs swapped between the LCD board and the SCC for the CAN. Now it all works including the SCC with no problems. Many thanks. :oops: So I was actually trying to flash the LCD doh....
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by al76 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 06:08

al76 wrote:
Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 09:28
weber wrote:
Wed, 14 Feb 2018, 19:39
al76 wrote:
Wed, 14 Feb 2018, 19:17
Is it worth following this up with mpp solar or move fwd with buying another unit and have this unit repaired in Aus? I was planning on a parallel system plus I will be needing a second independent system soon anyway.
I can't really advise you on such decisions. Except to say that I don't see that you have anything to lose by raising the problem with MPP Solar.

How long has the PIP-4048MS been in use? Could there be a fault in the isolation device between your PV array and the PIP?
I'm assuming the isolation device between the PV array and PIP is the large switch?

Any way I've been limping along with this situation where the solar charging starts from approx 9:30-11:30am on most sunny days all the while the pips relays click away. Except 1 day last week which was cloudy and the solar charging started at 7:30am.
This morning I woke up to a dead pip4048ms. Checked batterys, fired up geny. No hint of life. I've ordered a replacement unit this morning.
The unit was purchased Dec 2016.
Also worth noting. Both HRC fuses had blown. Has anyone had this experience? I'm assuming the pip developed a short??
Anyway I have the replacement pip installed (day 2) and its had issues each morning.
I log output from QPIGS and soon after sunrise I see a brief spike from the panels then nothing reported from panels. The battery volts reported by QPIGS seems to indicate charging is happening but the pip display also shows that no solar charging is happening. After a cold start ( disconnect panels, turn off unit, disconnect batteries, wait a bit, reconnect batteroes, turn on unit connect panels) the solar charging seems to report correctly via QPIGS and the panel display.
Anyone offer any clues?

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by coulomb » Wed, 02 May 2018, 07:36

al76 wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 06:08
Also worth noting. Both HRC fuses had blown. Has anyone had this experience? I'm assuming the pip developed a short??
It's not uncommon that when a PIP goes faulty, that it blows its MOSFETs, which fail shorted and present a short circuit across the battery. Surprisingly, this rarely results in battery fuses blowing, though there have been a few reported cases. I believe that this is because the narrow leads to the TO-220 cases tend to act as fuses, clearing the fault current before the main fuses, which are large and have a significant thermal "mass", heat up enough to blow. There is also a 200 A fuse inside the PIP, which also rarely blows. So repair of the older PIP will involve replacing at least half, possibly all the battery-side MOSFETs, and possibly some of their gate resistors and gate driver components. Depending on how the fault happened, there may be other faults, e.g. with the IGBTs that produce the 230 V output, and their gate driver circuitry. When they go, they typically take out a lot of components.
Anyway I have the replacement pip installed (day 2) and its had issues each morning.
I'm concerned that you may still have a wiring fault, which may even have contributed to the first unit blowing up (but this seems unlikely). You mention "connect panels"; presumably you don't use a screwdriver to insert the PV input leads; you must have some sort of switch or breakers that you turn on to connect your solar panels to your PIP. I'm wondering if these might have some sort of bad contact that is possibly temperature sensitive, which is high resistance when cold, and comes good when you switch everything off and on again later in the day when it's warmer. It might be moisture getting in somewhere at night. I think it's worth checking every crimp, wire, and component in the PV and battery parts of your installation. Tug every wire, and so on.

While checking your earlier posts for clues, I note that your older PIP reported firmware versions 72.70 (main) and 04.12 (SCC). Would these have been supplied from the factory, or would you have updated the firmwares at some point?

[ Edit: added "fail shorted and".]
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by gremlinman » Wed, 02 May 2018, 09:40

Hi everyone and thanks to all involved in the information in this thread. I have lost the RJ45 cable that came with pip4048ms, can I just buy any convertor on ebay or is it a special cable? Anyone know where I can get a replacement if so?

I already bought a "high quality" usb to serial device I just have no way to connect it to the pip atm.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 02 May 2018, 10:08

al76 wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 06:08
Anyway I have the replacement pip installed (day 2) and its had issues each morning.
I log output from QPIGS and soon after sunrise I see a brief spike from the panels then nothing reported from panels. The battery volts reported by QPIGS seems to indicate charging is happening but the pip display also shows that no solar charging is happening. After a cold start ( disconnect panels, turn off unit, disconnect batteries, wait a bit, reconnect batteroes, turn on unit connect panels) the solar charging seems to report correctly via QPIGS and the panel display.
Anyone offer any clues?
I understand you are using 72-cell panels. Is your PV array presently configured as 3 strings of 2 panels or 2 strings of 3 panels? As mentioned previously, strings of 3 may produce excessive open circuit voltage when cold.

You know about the premature-float bug right? The solution to that is to update to the latest patched firmware. See the index post.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Wed, 02 May 2018, 10:26

gremlinman wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 09:40
Hi everyone and thanks to all involved in the information in this thread. I have lost the RJ45 cable that came with pip4048ms, can I just buy any convertor on ebay or is it a special cable?
It's a non-standard cable. Its connections are described here.
Anyone know where I can get a replacement if so?
No. But you could make one from an ethernet cable and a D9 serial cable or connector.
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by gremlinman » Wed, 02 May 2018, 13:55

weber wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 10:26
gremlinman wrote:
Wed, 02 May 2018, 09:40
Hi everyone and thanks to all involved in the information in this thread. I have lost the RJ45 cable that came with pip4048ms, can I just buy any convertor on ebay or is it a special cable?
It's a non-standard cable. Its connections are described here.
Anyone know where I can get a replacement if so?
No. But you could make one from an ethernet cable and a D9 serial cable or connector.
Thanks very much for the info, is there any free software I can check to see if the cable is working with the PIP before I try flashing? Lucibus is/was apparently free but I can't find a download link for it anymore.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by paulvk » Wed, 02 May 2018, 16:15

You can get Watchpower here http://www.giantpower.com.au/downloads/

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by gremlinman » Wed, 02 May 2018, 16:55

Thanks everyone. I managed to make my own converter and watchpower works with it, I seem to have version 72.90 . I will give it the custom firmware tomorrow.

The reason I am updating the firmware is because it seems it is not correctly utilizing the solar power I have, I believe it is what is called "early float". I have switched the unit off after reading about this and noticed it went from ~400w input solar to 1.4kw merely from restarting it and no change in solar radiation. When I run a generator to "top it up" it seems to work exactly as one might think. Currently I have to do this every afternoon because even though there is plenty of direct sunlight for over 8 hours, it fails to recharge the batteries the ~3KWh it lost in the night. I have 2KW of panels.

Another big reason to update is it seems that default display "aussieview" is so much better than the standard one. I look forward to the new version and hope it goes well.

If anyone has any advice for me in general with this unit I'd be pleased to hear it. I have 8x250W panels, and 8x120AH AGM batteries. I bought 4 batteries initially and another 4 batteries from the same ebay seller but the batteries seem to be slightly different, older ones were rated at 20H and the newer ones at 10H. The only real problem I've had is I feel like they aren't charging properly, I thought it might have been the batteries until the generator seemed to charge them as I expected. I bought the pip4048ms about feb 2017 and its been in use since about june 2017.

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by gremlinman » Thu, 03 May 2018, 10:08

Ok I have updated to 73.00b and had no issues so far. Quite a cloudy day so far but the batteries are nearly full. Hopefully I will now get full batteries even on solar. I love the new display options!

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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopez » Thu, 03 May 2018, 10:38

coulomb wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:46
Unfortunately, if I'm right, you'll have to take it up with your supplier, and ask pointed questions about the legality of the firmware. [ Edit: However, error 90 can also happen when using firmware versions 73.00 or 73.00a, in perfectly legitimate Voltronic Power hardware, if it came from the factory with firmware earlier than 73.00. ]
Unfortunately also, again if I'm right, the firmware will have locked out firmware updating. [ Edit: I got that part wrong. It seems that you can load new firmware while showing an error 90 (fault code 90). So to fix this error, update to any compatible firmware other than 73.00 or 73.00a. See also Attention Firmware Updaters.]
I finally got a reply from MPPSolar, so error 90 appears to have something to do with using fake hardware or fake firmware..:
Hello Sir

1.Please provide us a serial label photo of the 4048MS inverter.

2.Please provide us the U1 version screen-shot. Do you update any firmware?

Image

Please provide us above information and we can better confirm and solve the problem.

Thank you.

Best regards,
Albert Y. ¦ Support Team, MPP Solar Inc.
support@mppsolar.com ¦ www.mppsolar.com
Peggy Hung, MPP Solar Inc 於 2018/4/30 下午 02:27 寫道:

Please note there are currently several Mainland Chinese companies who have copied our inverters and offering them at lower prices. For your own benefit, please do NOT support these inferior products. MPP Solar operates independently and is NOT affiliated to these companies in any way.

Kind Regard

Peggy Hung

Sales Department

peggy@mppsolar.com

TEL: 886 2 8797 8896 ex 603

Image
www.mppsolar.com
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Thu, 03 May 2018, 11:46

lopez wrote:
Thu, 03 May 2018, 10:38
coulomb wrote:
Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 15:46
Unfortunately, if I'm right, you'll have to take it up with your supplier, and ask pointed questions about the legality of the firmware. [Edit: ...]
...
[Edit: ... See also Attention Firmware Updaters.]
I finally got a reply from MPPSolar, so error 90 appears to have something to do with using fake hardware or fake firmware..:
Peggy at MPP Solar wrote:Hello Sir
1.Please provide us a serial label photo of the 4048MS inverter.
2.Please provide us the U1 version screen-shot. Do you update any firmware?
...
Coulomb's initial advice (above) was bad advice. It was apparently based on the mistaken assumption that you had bought one of the Mainland Chinese copies that Peggy mentions. In fact, the only thing you needed to do was update to 73.00b, as mentioned in the Attention Firmware Updaters post, where error 90 was first mentioned in this thread. Or you could have gone back to any version prior to 73.00.

Error 90 has nothing to do with fake firmware and everything to do with fake (or old) hardware.

There are (at least) two ways you can get an error 90. In both cases, the error won't appear until 60 operating-days after the condition has been met.
1. You buy one of the Mainland Chinese copies/clones of the inverter and it (illegally) comes with Voltronics main firmware 73.00.
2. You have an old but legitimate Voltronics inverter (e.g. an old PIP-4048MS) and you update it to 73.00 (or 73.00a).

Hence Peggy's correspondingly-numbered questions.

Apparently Voltronics did not expect owners of older inverters to update to 73.00. Presumably MPP Solar is not aware of our patched firmware that solves this problem (among other problems that we have tried to bring to their, or Voltronics, attention) and so I expect that once they are satisfied, by your serial-number label photo, that your hardware is legitimate, they will advise you to return your inverter's firmware to a version prior to 73.00.

Alternatively, you could tell them that yes, the problem was apparently caused by updating to main firmware 73.00. But it is fixed now, because you have reflashed with Coulomb and Weber's patched firmware 73.00b. Or if you want to keep your life simple, you could just say it is fixed now because you have reflashed with "other firmware". :)
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by weber » Thu, 03 May 2018, 20:06

gremlinman wrote:
Thu, 03 May 2018, 10:08
Ok I have updated to 73.00b and had no issues so far. Quite a cloudy day so far but the batteries are nearly full. Hopefully I will now get full batteries even on solar. I love the new display options!
That's great to hear. Thanks for letting us know. :)
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Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by lopezjm2001 » Thu, 03 May 2018, 20:15

weber wrote:
Thu, 03 May 2018, 11:46
Alternatively, you could tell them that yes, the problem was apparently caused by updating to main firmware 73.00. But it is fixed now, because you have reflashed with Coulomb and Weber's patched firmware 73.00b. Or if you want to keep your life simple, you could just say it is fixed now because you have reflashed with "other firmware". :)
Thanks for the advice. I have suggested to Peggy from MPPSolar that they should look at your improved firmware and make these improvements to their own firmware. I am assuming it is free software.
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