Page 84 of 131

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sat, 08 Sep 2018, 08:54
by andys
Somehow I missed this until now. The newest range of PIPs is advertised as "PF1" models:

> “PF1” inverter standards for Power Factor 1.0 version of the PIP-HS and PIP-MS inverter family. All features on the PF1 series are nearly identical to the original PF0.8

This exactly matches the issue I found, that AC charging on my classic 4048MS is happening at a very dirty 0.8 power factor. So I'm guessing the newer models are much nicer for charging off generators and they've pretty much solved that problem moving forward.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sat, 08 Sep 2018, 12:11
by offgridQLD
I have a few questions regarding two PIP5048ms units in parallel mode.

Generator input or AC Utility charge and the corresponding DC output charging rate of two pips running in parallel. Is this double the rate (120A) of a single PIP5048ms 60A utility charge rating ?

Has anyone used a PIP5048 with a generator and charged at the full 60A rating ? I had issues with the older PIP4048 not wanting to charge at higher rates than around 20- 30A even from a quality large 8kw Japanese generator. Apparently a few others had the same issue.

Would be nice the few times a year its needed with two pip5048 to hit the battery's with 120A - 6kw charge rate for just 1hr and replenish 25% of my house battery.

Im contemplating using two PIP5048ms units in parallel mode for a new offgrid house build. Though a little reluctant based on a few quirks / limitations of my older pip4048 unit. The price it so tempting $1,800 over the $8,000 alternative Selectronic SPpro.


Coulomb & Weber great job on the new firmware updates (AussieView) :D

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sat, 08 Sep 2018, 18:57
by paulvk
Yes with two you get double everything so you could charge at 120amps.
Note both units charge amps are set interdependently solar and grid/generator.
Yes the price of the other brands is eye watering even after buying spare inverters (which is what I did) you still have change.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sat, 08 Sep 2018, 20:54
by coulomb
andys wrote: Sat, 08 Sep 2018, 08:54 This exactly matches the issue I found, that AC charging on my classic 4048MS is happening at a very dirty 0.8 power factor. So I'm guessing the newer models are much nicer for charging off generators and they've pretty much solved that problem moving forward.
The PF1.0 refers to the maximum inverter load, not the AC charging. They seem to have beefed up the battery-side and high-side full bridges to 5 kW, so now the limits are 5 kVA (as before) and 5 kW (up from 4 kW).

I suspect that the newer models will be just as picky with generators as the older models.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 09 Sep 2018, 13:02
by offgridQLD
The efficacy of 91% at 5kw output is a lot of heat to extract. I wonder how the 5kw versions will go running 80A scc and 5kw load at the same time or even 80% of that combination for any length of time.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 09 Sep 2018, 13:39
by andys
Thanks coulomb!

I am pondering buying an Elcon PFC charger to charge off generator, though it is alot of $$$, and I read they are not necessarily that reliable!

offgridQLD: You should consider what I did, the full fan speed mod. Just disconnected the 4th wire to the fans and they run at 100% all the time, thus (I hope!) prolonging the life of the other components.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Mon, 10 Sep 2018, 06:15
by 6mdx
My 5048 pwm has variable speed fans. It never gets hot. The exit air is barely warm with 2 kw ouput plus 2 or 3 kw solar.
But having said all that, the SCC has died and I am currenly undergoing the waranty claim process.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 02:20
by gbeppe
sorry for the intrusion, I'm new to the forum even if I read it often. I have a system with two PIP-4048 inverters, 28 300W photovoltaic panels, 24 100ah lead batteries. I made a program that reads and analyzes all the data provided by the CPU and I would say that I'm happy, but I'm missing only the part relating to the configuration of the PC parameters because I can not get the command, that is, I send the command es. PBFT and I receive ACK, but the setting does not change.
Question: is there any instruction to send before the command to accept it?
Sorry for the trouble. Thanks for the possible answer.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 05:44
by weber
Welcome @gbeppe

I'm guessing you have not set the battery type to "user", either by using the LCD and buttons to set parameter [5] to "USE" or "uSr", or by sending a serial command PBT02 with a CRC of 0x074C.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 15:31
by DanoP
Hello coulomb and weber,
did you plan in next firmware add/modify PIP commands to dynamically switch to bypass mode (for LiFe batteries)?
Now we have possibility to dynamically limit charging current (good for top balancing), but it would by also great to have possibility to force PIP in bypass mode, when some cell reaches low voltage limit. I know I can get it changing either output source priority or battery cut-off voltage, but both are writing to EEPROM.
That would also allow to go to bypass when battery SOC reaches low limit.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 18:42
by gbeppe
Thanks for the quick response. No, no, the battery is set correctly USER, but the problem is not here, but on any configuration command sent by PC. I almost get the impression that before sending the command, you need a second confirmation command, but I have no idea what it is.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 19:54
by coulomb
gbeppe wrote: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 18:42 ... the problem is not here, but on any configuration command sent by PC. I almost get the impression that before sending the command, you need a second confirmation command, but I have no idea what it is.
If you get the ACK, the EEPROM value should have changed. It should also have sent the changed value to any paralleled machines. Have you checked against the LC Display? Perhaps your other software isn't checking the changed value correctly, perhaps returning a cached value or some such. If it's on a web page, control-F5 is your friend.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 21:00
by weber
DanoP wrote: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 15:31 Hello coulomb and weber,
did you plan in next firmware add/modify PIP commands to dynamically switch to bypass mode (for LiFe batteries)?
Now we have possibility to dynamically limit charging current (good for top balancing), but it would by also great to have possibility to force PIP in bypass mode, when some cell reaches low voltage limit. I know I can get it changing either output source priority or battery cut-off voltage, but both are writing to EEPROM.
That would also allow to go to bypass when battery SOC reaches low limit.
Hi DanoP. That's an interesting idea. But it would be a lot of work to implement, and it doesn't seem necessary. The EEPROM can be written to every 5 minutes for 9.5 years without wearing out.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 21:22
by bigjsl
Forum user hwassie published a Python program to read the data from a PIP and upload it to a database.

I was more interested in pvoutput.org where I already graph my old Xantrex system, originally with an Arduino using some code I open sourced and then more recently with something on a RaspberryPi that I found that does an OK job.

Since then I have written some code that counts pulse from a kwh meter and publishes them too but that's a project for another night.

This is pretty primitive and I have only just got it running properly tonight. My graphs from today are wrong but I'm pretty sure I have fixed the bugs now.

Feedback, improvements etc welcome.

Enjoy!

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 00:23
by gbeppe
Coulomb, In fact, with the answer "ACK" I was convinced commando accepted. But no. My program, after transmitting in command and waiting for the answer, goes to read the status of the EPROM and I always return the unmodified value. I am attaching the portion of the writing and reading program:

void __fastcall TFotoVolMain::TTrasmitCode(AnsiString Buftx)
{

unsigned int crc2 = 0;
char testo[128];
testo[0] = '\0';
TObject *Sender;
if(Configura->BufSalvaTX != "") {
Buftx = Configura->BufSalvaTX; // Comand "PCN03"
}

if (Visible){
if ( ComPort->Active ) {
crc2 = cal_crc_half(Buftx.c_str(), Buftx.Length());
int y = Buftx.Length();
memcpy(&testo, Buftx.c_str(), y);
testo[y++] = crc2 >> 8;
testo[y++] = crc2 & 0xff;
testo[y++] = 0x0d;
testo[y++] = '\0';
String TX(testo);
ComPort->Timeouts->ReadMultiplier = 100;
ComPort->Timeouts->ReadConstant = 100;

try {
// send data
ComPort->WriteAnsiString(TX);
}
catch(Exception& e)
{
Label40->Caption = IntToStr(Rientri++);
ComPort->Active = false;
ButtonOpenCloseClick(Sender);
}

try {
// read received data
Sleep(700);
RX = ComPort->ReadAnsiString(); // Get "ACK"
}
catch(Exception& e)
{
Label40->Caption = IntToStr(Rientri++);
ComPort->Active = false;
ButtonOpenCloseClick(Sender);
}
ReadPort();
}
Update();

}
}

the next lap, I go to read the status of the EPROM and I return the value not changed. However, if you confirm that there are no further instructions either before or after the command, I will have to look elsewhere. Thank you

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 06:02
by andys
In case it helps anyone, I have my own C program I use to talk to the PIP over USB from Linux.

Its just a binary you run and you can pipe data to it (STDIN) and it replies over STDOUT. So you can treat it like a terminal.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/andys ... ster/pip.c

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 09:21
by bigjsl
andys wrote: Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 06:02 Its just a binary you run and you can pipe data to it (STDIN) and it replies over STDOUT. So you can treat it like a terminal.
Nice!

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sat, 15 Sep 2018, 20:58
by bubla
coulomb wrote: Fri, 31 Aug 2018, 12:29 Patched Firmware 72.20a for PF1 models with 64V option

What's this? Has Coulomb gone mad?...

This patched firmware fixes the premature-float bugs in the manufacturer's firmware for the PIP-5048MS (with 64V option), Axpert MKS 5K-48 (PF1, with 64V option), and equivalents. ...
hi coulomb,
would it be possible to make float patch for lifepo4 battery even for pip2424msxe? a lot of people would have helped
Thanks

[ Edit Coulomb: trimmed over-long quote. ]

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 07:53
by weber
bubla wrote: Sat, 15 Sep 2018, 20:58 hi coulomb,
would it be possible to make float patch for lifepo4 battery even for pip2424msxe? a lot of people would have helped
Thanks
Hi bubla.
As I wrote at the end of this post: viewtopic.php?p=69059#p69059
Coulomb and I are willing to fix the premature float bugs in any model closely related to the PIP-4048MS (neither grid-feed nor hybrid). That includes the PIP-2424MSXE. But to do so we need someone to send us a recent firmware update file for that machine.

I'm sorry that it is not practical for us to make the other changes to suit LFP batteries. Those are changes in the ranges and default values of the low-cutoff and back-to-utility voltage settings, and the offsets for the automatic low-voltage-warning and back-to-bulk thresholds. Fixing the premature-float bugs only requires changes in 2 locations (and 2 more to change the version number). But LFP requires changes in another 23 locations. We'd almost certainly introduce new bugs when making so many changes, and we wouldn't have any way to test them. Anecdotally, it's impossible to write more than 5 lines of code without introducing a bug. :)

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 09:21
by coulomb
weber wrote: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 07:53 But to do so we need someone to send us a recent firmware update file for that machine.
However, it's possible that such firmware is already available. I have for example the firmware for Axpert VM II 1200/2400/3000/4000/5000 W models (first 3 are 24 V machines), firmware version 20.44. Both the VM II and VM III series (Value Models/Machines?) are not parallelable. [ Edit: it's Value MPPT; Weber explains it all next post. ] These might correspond to the PIP XXXE models (Economy).

I also have firmware version 18.22 for dual MPPT non parallelable machines, PF0.8, 12-48V 1200 or 2400 W (4 models).

Given the "2424" in your PIP model number, it's likely a 2400 VA 24 V machine, but with the many different models out there, I can't be certain.

One of these *might* be the same model as what you have. If so, we could patch it and you could try it, but at your own risk, and if it doesn't work, your machine is essentially bricked unless you can get a factory firmware from your supplier. You would be helping the community by letting us know what you find.

So the first step would be: please provide as much information about your machine as possible: present firmware versions, and any ratings as reported on the label and/or by WatchPower or other monitoring software. You can easily eliminate it being a VM III model by the LC DIsplay; for a VM III it would look similar to the attached. (From this Power Forum post). Or if it does look like the attached, then the above two guesses are wrong.

[ Edit: Added comment re PIP XXXE model names. ]
[ Edit: 2400 W —> 2400 VA.]

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:46
by weber
[Edit: This post has been superseded. To find the latest, look for "The Voltronic Zoo" in the Documentation section of the Index page.]

The Voltronic Zoo

I just compiled a spreadsheet of what Coulomb calls "The Zoo" of Voltronic 230 Vac off-grid wall-mount inverters, with the specs that distinguish them from each other. I also give model numbers for the equivalent inverters from MPP Solar, when they exist.

It only includes currently available models, not all the past models, some of which have the same numbers as current models, but different specs!

I note that when a model has a 64V option (for maximum absorb or equalise voltage), MPP Solar sell it only with that option.

Zoo.xlsx
(14.08 KiB) Downloaded 568 times


Here's a decoder for Voltronic model numbers of the form:

Axpert www xxxx-yy pppp.

www contains one of the following strings:
  EX = PWM
  KS = PWM (equiv PIP-HS and PIP-HSP)
  VP = PWM, economy (lower charge current and not parallelable) (equiv PIP-HSE)
  MEX = MPPT
  MKS = MPPT (equiv PIP-MS and PIP-MSP)
  MKS II = MPPT 450 V (equiv PIP-MG)
  VM = MPPT, economy (lower charge current and not parallelable) (equiv PIP-MSE and PIP-MSXE)
  VM II = MPPT 500 V (equiv PIP-GE)
  VM III = MPPT 400 V or 500 V, removable display (equiv PIP-GK)
  King = MPPT, removable display (equiv PIP-MK)
  Plus Duo = 2 x MPPT (equiv PIP-MSD)
  Plus Tri = 3 x MPPT (equiv PIP-MST)
xxxx (digits with possible decimal point and possible "K" for kilo) = apparent power in volt-amps
yy (digits only) = battery voltage
pppp is either "Plus" or not present
  Plus = MPPT SCC with max Voc = 145 V, in the case where another model differs only in having a lower-voltage SCC (equiv PIP-zzXz)


Here's a decoder for MPP Solar model numbers of the form:

PIP-xxyyzzz(www).

xx (digits only) = true power in hundreds of watts
yy
(digits only) = battery voltage
zzz contains 2 or 3 (and in one case 4) of the following letters:
  M = MPPT SCC (first letter)
  H = PWM SCC (first letter)
  G = MPPT SCC with max Voc ≥ 400 V (first or second letter)
  S is meaningless (second letter)
  K = Removable display (second letter)
  E = Economy (lower charge current and not parallelable) (second, third or fourth letter)
  P = power factor 0.8 (third letter)
  D = Dual MPPTs (third letter)
  T = Triple MPPTs (third letter)
  X = MPPT SCC with max Voc = 145 V, in the case where another model differs only in having a lower-voltage SCC (third letter)
(www):
  (1) = power factor 1, in the case where another model differs only in having a lower power factor
  (64V) = has the 64 V max absorb voltage option

Here's MPP Solar's own comparison chart (Thanks Coulomb).


Here's a decoder for Mecer (rhymes with "spacer") models of the form: [Thanks to Coulomb for the following]

SOL-I-AX-xww possibly followed by dd.

x is the apparent power in kVA, usually 5 or 3
ww is a series code string:
  M = 145 V max MPPT, PF0.8, 60 A SCC, except if manufactured between November 2017 and at least March 2018, when they became PF1.0 and 80 A SCC, and didn't bother to change the series code.
  P = 145 V max MPPT, 80 A, PF1.0.
  NB = PF1 450 V max MPPT, 80 A SCC.
  D = PF0.8 dual MPPT (145 V max 60 A x 2)
  T = PF0.8 triple MPPT (145 V max 60 A x 3)
  KP = MPPT, removable display equivalent to Axpert King 5K or PIP-5048MK
  K or P when following 3 seem to be MPPT, removable display equivalent to an Axpert King 3K or PIP-3024MK
dd when present indicates:
  64 = 64 V max battery voltage on a 48 V nominal machine
  24 = 24 V nominal battery voltage.
3M24 = 75 V max MPPT, 600 W solar charging.
3MPLUS24 = PF0.8 145 V max MPPT 60 A SCC.
When not present, you can assume a 48 V nominal battery voltage with 58.4 V max if x is 5, or 24 V nominal if x is 3.

There seems to be another, older pattern, e.g.
M-5K-PAR-A where:
  M = Mecer
  5K = 5 kVA
  PAR = parallel capable but not necessarily supplied with a paralleling kit
  A = PF0.8

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 18:31
by bubla
weber wrote: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 07:53
Hi bubla.
As I wrote at the end of this post: viewtopic.php?p=69059#p69059
Coulomb and I are willing to fix the premature float bugs in any model closely related to the PIP-4048MS (neither grid-feed nor hybrid). That includes the PIP-2424MSXE. But to do so we need someone to send us a recent firmware update file for that machine.
hello Weber,
and can I download the current firmware from the inverter or do I need to get it from the manufacturer?

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 18:53
by weber
bubla wrote: Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 18:31 hello Weber,
and can I download the current firmware from the inverter or do I need to get it from the manufacturer?
Unfortunately, it is not possible to download the current firmware from the inverter.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 06:22
by weber
gbeppe wrote: Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 00:23 Coulomb, In fact, with the answer "ACK" I was convinced commando accepted. But no. My program, after transmitting in command and waiting for the answer, goes to read the status of the EPROM and I always return the unmodified value. I am attaching the portion of the writing and reading program:
...
the next lap, I go to read the status of the EPROM and I return the value not changed. However, if you confirm that there are no further instructions either before or after the command, I will have to look elsewhere. Thank you
There is no confirmation command required either before or after the value setting command.
gbeppe wrote: Buftx = Configura->BufSalvaTX; // Comand "PCN03"
I've never heard of a "PCN" command. Is this a typographical error? If not, what does it do?

You did not answer Coulomb's question:
coulomb wrote: Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 19:54 If you get the ACK, the EEPROM value should have changed. It should also have sent the changed value to any paralleled machines. Have you checked against the LC Display? Perhaps your other software isn't checking the changed value correctly, perhaps returning a cached value or some such. If it's on a web page, control-F5 is your friend.

Re: PIP-4048MS inverter

Posted: Mon, 17 Sep 2018, 07:31
by coulomb
@bubla, thanks to Weber's excellent "Voltronic Zoo" post, it seems likely that your PIP-2424MSXE is the same as a PIP-3024MSXE, except that it's from before the switchover to PF1.0 for that series in about February 2018. Weber says that the PIP-3024MSXE is equivalent to the Axpert VM 3000-24 Plus, so your PIP-2424MSXE would be equivalent to the Axpert VM 2400-24 Plus. The VM  and VM II seem to differ mainly by the 500 V MPPT in the latter, same as the VM IIIs which have the removable display.

So now the question is whether the VM and VM II share the same firmware. My guess is no, in which case I don't have a firmware to patch for your machine, unless it's a dual MPPT model. When you tell us the version number for the factory firmware (U1 information page on the LC display), we'll get a better clue as to whether the firmware I have (VM II version 20.44) is suitable for you.

[ Edit: Weber pointed out to me in email that the two models in question have different maximum charge current settings, so there is no chance that any firmware I have matches your hardware. Also, the PIP-2424MSXE is not a dual MPPT model, so that knocks out the other firmware contender. So we'll have to wait until the matching firmware becomes available after all. ]

[ Edit: added "for that series". ]