Re: PIP-4048MS inverter
Posted: Fri, 11 May 2018, 11:44
The forums of The Australian Electric Vehicle Association
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/
That is some great info you laid out in some combined posts, so thanks for that again!coulomb wrote: ↑Thu, 10 May 2018, 20:35 For charging, it only has to know when the battery is full. Usually, it uses the battery current at a certain voltage, but you can use setting 38 (absorb time) to modify that somewhat. With the patched firmware, and I expect the same from original firmware if they ever fix that typo, charging seems quite reliable to me.
The above link goes to a 24 V model for me. Looking at the 48 V model specifications, I'd say that these are old models, based on the 30 A AC charging and 60 A SCC charging current limits. The photos seem to be identical between the 24 V and 48 V models; I guess they were lazy and used the same set of photos for both.beccsjb wrote: ↑Fri, 11 May 2018, 06:03 Coulomb, do you know if your custom firmware would work on a 'POWER MPS-5K, Model: MPS 5K-48VDC'.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2360096080
No, it's all based on total battery current.gremlinman wrote: ↑Fri, 11 May 2018, 15:25 When you say it uses the battery current at a certain voltage, do you mean when the inverter is on it can guess the SOC because of the voltage at that load?
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the SCC does measure its DC current output, and this is part of the calculation of total battery current. The inverter is always either discharging the battery, charging from AC, or not used at all. In the first case, they use the AC power and an estimate of efficiency to infer battery current. When AC charging, the use the net power into the charger along with an efficiency estimate to infer battery current. When the inverter is off, the only battery drain is for the internal electronics. In all three cases, there can be SCC charge current, which is simply added to the inferred battery current.What happens when the inverter isn't on, what current is it using then?
Hi , did you solve the problem? I have the same issue , He worked great , until now .Thank you !
If you mean that the relay in the Solar Charge Controller comes on and off repeatedly at the end of the day when solar input voltage drops, I believe that this is normal behaviour. The SCC measures the PV voltage under a slight load (running its own electronics including the relay), finds it just barely too low, disconnects, and the PV voltage shoots up again because the small load (the relay coil) is removed. There is enough voltage to keep the SCC running, and the next measurement finds the PV voltage just above the threshold, so it re-connects. Eventually, the PV voltage is so low that even with the reduced load, the voltage is too low to connect, and the SCC stays off.mirceaalex001 wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:52Hi , did you solve the problem? I have the same issue , He worked great , until now .Thank you !
No, at the end of the day , say pv input 28w , and the relay don`t comes off.... The big problem is in that way , it consumes way more power . The only way to disconnect the relay is to cut off the batteries ( the main power ) . ANd then i can hear the relay goes off . After i reconnect the batteries , is all ok , untill next night .coulomb wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 07:10If you mean that the relay in the Solar Charge Controller comes on and off repeatedly at the end of the day when solar input voltage drops, I believe that this is normal behaviour. The SCC measures the PV voltage under a slight load (running its own electronics including the relay), finds it just barely too low, disconnects, and the PV voltage shoots up again because the small load (the relay coil) is removed. There is enough voltage to keep the SCC running, and the next measurement finds the PV voltage just above the threshold, so it re-connects. Eventually, the PV voltage is so low that even with the reduced load, the voltage is too low to connect, and the SCC stays off.mirceaalex001 wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 03:52Hi , did you solve the problem? I have the same issue , He worked great , until now .Thank you !
My apologies if I have misinterpreted the problem.
Thank you , i will try to disable Equalize , and see if the problem persist , i will answer back .Revlac wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 17:24 Had a similar experience.
I have used the PCM60X charge controllers for years now, as I use it along side the 5048HS And have had no problems with them on (custom settings) with the lithium battery bank.
Just a few times where I disconnected the solar panels late in the afternoon just before a storm and noticed it also stayed on for some time but not always, reconnected the panels and then sorted itself out if there was still some solar available.
On the FLA battery bank in the shed on default settings accept that I had the equalize setting enabled, That resulted in the charge controller staying on all night every night, it was trying to equalize the batteries. (There was full battery voltage at the solar inputs when the relay was on)
It maybe I set up the equalize setting incorrectly, I don't know but since I disabled the Equalize I have never had that happen again. (It never stayed on since.)
Hope that helps someone.
Cheers
Aaron
I have disabled the equalization , but the problem persists . Is like is some dc curent there , from another place .Revlac wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 17:24 Had a similar experience.
I have used the PCM60X charge controllers for years now, as I use it along side the 5048HS And have had no problems with them on (custom settings) with the lithium battery bank.
Just a few times where I disconnected the solar panels late in the afternoon just before a storm and noticed it also stayed on for some time but not always, reconnected the panels and then sorted itself out if there was still some solar available.
On the FLA battery bank in the shed on default settings accept that I had the equalize setting enabled, That resulted in the charge controller staying on all night every night, it was trying to equalize the batteries. (There was full battery voltage at the solar inputs when the relay was on)
It maybe I set up the equalize setting incorrectly, I don't know but since I disabled the Equalize I have never had that happen again. (It never stayed on since.)
Hope that helps someone.
Cheers
Aaron
By "there", do you mean at the PV input terminals? Is it possible that this is leakage across your PV switch? For example, can you ever see this 46 V at night?mirceaalex001 wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 14:23 And measured with a multimeter , even with the pv switch off , i have that 46v there ,
It must be taking *some* current to see the 46 V at the PV input, but even 5 microamps would be enough to register 46 V on a multimeter with a typical 10 MΩ input resistance. But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.so , somehow is taking dc current from another place .
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
Hi , and thank you again for all the help , I have disconnected the panels , but the problem remains , and in bypass mode and what i have observed is that i have 1 amp drain from batteries no matter what( reported by the inverter himself , i don`t have a amp clampeter yet )coulomb wrote: ↑Fri, 18 May 2018, 06:33By "there", do you mean at the PV input terminals? Is it possible that this is leakage across your PV switch? For example, can you ever see this 46 V at night?mirceaalex001 wrote: ↑Thu, 17 May 2018, 14:23 And measured with a multimeter , even with the pv switch off , i have that 46v there ,
It must be taking *some* current to see the 46 V at the PV input, but even 5 microamps would be enough to register 46 V on a multimeter with a typical 10 MΩ input resistance. But I think that you're saying that the SCC relay coils (there are two in parallel) are turned on somehow. That would require of the order of a watt, which is some 20 mA at 50 V, and would require more than that (a few watts) to drive the SCC processor and associated electronics as well. But I can't imagine the current draw from the battery being near the 28 W that has been mentioned, just for the SCC electronics.so , somehow is taking dc current from another place .
It sounds like what is happening is that somehow some of these SCCs are drawing power from the main battery even when the PV input is not present. They are designed to take their power (for the electronics) from the PV input only. However, I could imagine some errant path whereby the battery could supply power to the electronics, keeping the output relays on. The relays are between the SCC output and the main battery. That would cause a small drain from the main battery, which would go away when the SCC is told to turn off its relays; it sounds like setting the maximum charge current to zero amps does this.I have found another way to turn it off ( the panels ) is by setting the max charge to 0 [ amps ] and then back to desired amp . After it disconnect that relay , is ok , until is connected again, so is like is some dc voltage on the other side of the relay , or is like a circuit that closes with that relay . Do You have any ideas what can be ? Or if i can set the pv input voltage cutoff .... ?Thank you !
Since the SCC stays off after forcing the relay off once, it suggests that the SCC isn't getting power from the PV input. But it's not certain, because relays require a lot more voltage (and hence power) to pull in than to hold their held-in position. If you have leakage across your PV switch, it might be enough power to hold the relays in, but not enough to pull them in once off.
You could prove that one way or the other by disconnecting one or both wires to the PV input; if there is no significant leakage across your PV switch, this should make no difference. Do this at the end of a day before forcing off the relays, of course.
Ok. So that seems to rule out leakage across your PV switch.mirceaalex001 wrote: ↑Fri, 18 May 2018, 15:36 Hi , and thank you again for all the help , I have disconnected the panels , but the problem remains,
When in bypass mode, the battery current reported depends on whether you are using factory firmware or patched. Even when not AC charging, so there is no significant loss from the inverter, but you are still running the LC display back-light, processor, relays, and all sorts of electronics. There are certainly versions of firmware that would report one amp of battery discharge in bypass mode. Recall that the battery current is a calculation, not a direct measurement, and can't be used to determine whether the inverter is drawing 20 W or 70 W under these conditions. DC clamp meters have their own issues, but can be made to be far more accurate than the reported battery current.and in bypass mode and what i have observed is that i have 1 amp drain from batteries no matter what( reported by the inverter himself , i don`t have a amp clamp meter yet ) ...so , somehow , some power is going in the wrong way
If you have the ability to inject commands to the PIP, and since you are using patched firmware, I'd try this pair of commands: