PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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ChrisHobson
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by ChrisHobson »

Hi I am a South African rancher and have read this thread through start to finish. There is an incredible amount of information here about the PIP4048. In South Africa the PIP is marketed as an Axpert 5kVA or Mecer 5kVA and they have the reputation of being reliable inexpensive (if one can describe an inverter as inexpensive) units. Some of the Aussie users' experience tends to differ from this.

I am not involved in electric cars in anyway but have just purchased a PIP (Mecer) as part of an off grid system for my farm house.

I have a problem in that the setting of the charging rate for output from the PV cannot be set. The overall charging rate can be set to between 70A and 120A This is far too high for the 4x 260Ah batteries that I have secured.This differs from the Aussie manual which allows 10A to 120A. Batteries are scarce since our government has managed to turn an electrical network that had 25% spare capacity when they cam to power into one that limps along with scheduled blackouts in rotation to prevent the entire grid collapsing. I am unlikely to secure more batteries with out paying a king's ransom so I would like my charge rate both PV and AC input to be 25A or 20A if necessary.

Johnny posted protocols for the PIP and I was wondering how does one go about communicating with the PIP using these protocols and whether anyone had practical experience using the protocols? I would love to lower the charge rate of the PIP(Mercer).

Thank-you

Chris

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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn »

What size and how many solar panels have you got connected and in what configuration.
Our prog 02 goes from 10A to 120A. What options does yours give.
What are your options with prog 11?What have you got prog 16 and 31 set to. What have you got 05 set to?
Possible solutions are:
Set prog 16 to C50
Set prog 12 and 13 to suitable values. I use 48 and 52
Set prog 11 to 2A or 10A
Set prog 31 to Sbd
Set prog 01 to sbU
Load the firmware that we use.
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24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by solamahn »

All the old mosfets 11-320110-00G 120A, are 11-320138-00G, 200A in all new 3248/4048ms now
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24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by solamahn »

Chris,
Have you actually scrolled through the options of prog 02. I just read the old and new manual for prog 02. The old model clearly states the 6 options 10A to 60A. You have to read the new manual closely from page 14 to see that there are now 12 options for prog 02 4k/5k 10A to 120A.
You should not connect solar panels that could supply more than 60A
Also if you dont have solar charging and utility charging happening at the same time, then your maximum charging current can never be more than 60A.
I think if you set 01 to Sbu 02 to 30A, 11 to 30A, 12 to 48, 13 to 52, 16 to C50 and 31 to SBE, then you will be ok.
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24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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PIP-4048MS inverter

Post by ChrisHobson »

solamahn wrote: What size and how many solar panels have you got connected and in what configuration.


I should have specified that I have 12 250W panels(4 strings of 3) and my battery bank is 4 x 12V 260Ah. I live in a very sunny environment and have a communal generator that runs approximately from 5pm to 9:30pm so a smaller battery bank makes sense except for charging.

Our program 2 goes from 70A - 120A.

Program 11 is 20A or 30A depending on what I finally decide.

Program 16 is CSO and program 31 is SBE.

Program 5 will be user defined so that you can set 27 and 29.

I am starting to think that this may just be a printing error in the S African manual
Last edited by ChrisHobson on Tue, 30 Jun 2015, 03:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb »

[ Edit: Probably the easiest way to send and receive commands if you have a Windows machine is now via the Voltronic Communications Tool, available from:
https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/download/
and search for "Communication Tool". ]
ChrisHobson wrote: Hi I am a South African rancher
Hi, Chris, welcome to the forum.
Johnny posted protocols for the PIP and I was wondering how does one go about communicating with the PIP using these protocols and whether anyone had practical experience using the protocols?
Most users would use the WatchPower software to control their inverters. It's a GUI front end for the protocol. You can do most things with the WatchPower that you can by talking to the inverter directly. The necessity for calculating a CRC for each command when communicating directly with the inverter makes the GUI option infinitely easier.

Whatever USB to RS232 converter you use to connect the WatchPower software to your inverter is all you need hardware wise. You just need a terminal emulator program. The one Weber and I use for this and all our serial communications needs is Tera Term. It's free and has all the features we need. You need to do some editing of the configuration file to allow sending of characters with the high bit set, for some of the CRCs; see the end of this post on the fan upgrade. Actually, for completeness, I'll repeat it here:

To enable sending of characters with the high bit set (e.g. 0xA8), you need to edit TERATERM.INI in the Tera Term program folder. Change MetaKey=??? to MetaKey=right, and Meta8Bit=??? to Meta8Bit=raw . Restart Tera Term to take effect. Tera Term is a free terminal emulation program, allowing you to talk to an RS232 serial port. You need to select 2400 bps speed: choose Setup/Serial port... and set Baud rate to 2400.

For the CRC calculation, we use this handy page: Online CRC calculation . Enter the command you want (e.g. QPIGS) into the text box just to the left of the "Calculate CRC" button; leave the Input Type as ASCII. Press the Calculate CRC button, and it produces all 10 CRCs at once. The one you want is labelled "CRC-CCITT (XModem)". For the QPIGS command (Device General Status Parameters Inquiry) the result is B7 A9. Both of these have the high bit set (the first hexadecimal digit is greater than 7). You need to be able to do a little hex arithmetic, and you may need an ASCII table as well. Let's take the first CRC character, B7. B is 11, which is 8+3, so subtracting 0x80 from 0xB7 gives 0x37. Looking up an ASCII table, like this one, we see that 0x37 is the '7' character. So once the meta key has been set up as above, we can send the character whose binary representation is 0xB7 by using the right-alt key like a shift key and pressing the '7' key. 0xA9 - 0x80 is 0x29, the ')' key. So we can send the QPIGS command as follows:
QPIGS<right-alt-7><right-alt-shift-0><enter>
(on my keyboard, the ')' key is shift-zero; it may be something else on international keyboards).

Phew! That's a lot of work. You can see why most people use the GUI WatchPower program. But the QPIGS command, for example, gives you some information (such as heat sink temperature) that the WatchPower program does not (unless it's hidden somewhere, and I don't use it regularly).

For completeness, the protocol manual is available here: http://forums.aeva.asn.au/uploads/293/HS_MS_MSX_RS232_Protocol_20140822_after_current_upgrade.pdf. [ Edit: there is a more complete protocol manual available now; see the first post index under Documentation. ]

[ Edit: added the following ]

This gives the following output:
QPIGS·©
(231.0 50.0 000.0 00.0 0000 0000 000 000 00.00 00 000 0021 0000 000.0 00.00 00000 00000000È


(The above has a copyright symbol for me at the end of the QPIGS command (typed by the user), and an E with a diacritical mark above it after the response. These may vary depending on your browser and language settings. They are the representation of the CRC characters.)

The response is long and unfriendly; it's not designed to be human readable, but machine parseable. The temperature in this output is 0021 (21 Celsius). You need the protocol manual to find out what information is where. Note that the above is from a test machine that doesn't even have a battery or the SCC (Solar Charger) connected, so there are more zeroes than usual. The open round bracket at the start of the response appears at the start of almost all responses; it seems to indicate "start of text". There is no close bracket to go with it.

[ Edit2: Mention set to 2400 bps; sign bit -> high bit; reworded CRC phrasing ]
Last edited by coulomb on Sun, 20 Dec 2015, 15:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by solamahn »

Chris,
I think all you need to do is enter appropriate values from the lcd screen. Just try scrolling through 02 and if 30 shows up, enter that. We use firmware 52 30
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Post by coulomb »

ChrisHobson wrote: In South Africa the PIP is marketed as an Axpert 5kVA or Mecer 5kVA

As a point of interest, do you get a 2-year warranty, quieter fans, and technical support from the suppliers? We do in Australia from Giant Power. We also get a red coloured front panel:

http://www.giantpower.com.au/giant-powe ... wer-system

Image

I'm just curious if Giant Power did some special deal with MPP Solar (the manufacturers*), or whether distributors are expected to do these things. We pay a bit more for these inverters through Giant Power compared to MPP Solar via Ebay, but after freight and other costs are taken into account, plus the doubled warranty and not having to change the fans, it's a pretty good deal for us.

[ * Edit: it turns out that MPP solar are also resellers. The manufacturer is actually Voltronic. ]
Last edited by coulomb on Tue, 05 Apr 2016, 18:03, edited 1 time in total.
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5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Post by offgridQLD »

Has anyone actually compared the (quieter fan upgrade) offered by Giant power to say a high quality PC case fan like what Weber installed on a PIP?

I know I have several case fans that I use and some say they are (quiet) and usually the definition of quiet follows the price you pay for them.

Or should I say are the Giant power fans actually quiet now or just quieter ?

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 30 Jun 2015, 08:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber »

Welcome Chris.

For others trying to help Chris, the Axpert manual is here:
http://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/fi ... manual.pdf
You will see that it claims, at top of page 16, that the allowed settings for parameter 2 (Maximum charging current) are 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110 A.

Chris, I assume you've tried the front-panel settings of parameter 2 and that's where you found that the allowed settings are 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120 A?

You are right that there is no way to set the maximum solar charge current except by setting the maximum total charge current. But that's really what you want anyway, to protect your batteries.

With other settings we have tried, we have found that the serial protocol does not allow any values other than those available on the front panel. But it's still worth a try in your case.

You should connect the PIP to a computer via a USB to RS232 converter, download install and run TeraTerm, choose Setup/Serial port... and set Baud rate to 2400, and type the command followed by its two CRC characters and a carriage return (Enter key). It just so happens that, for the two commands you are interested in, the CRC characters are ordinary characters. Otherwise you will need to do the meta-key thing Coulomb describes to enable the right Alt key to set the high bit.

To try setting the maximum charge current to 20 A, type the following, followed by the Enter key. Those are all zeros. There is no letter "O".
MNCHGC0020Gh

To try setting the maximum charge current to 30 A, type the following, followed by the Enter key.
MNCHGC0030tY

It will respond with ACK if it has accepted it, NAK otherwise. Let us know how you go.
Last edited by weber on Tue, 30 Jun 2015, 07:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by weber »

You could also try the following. You will need to enable the meta-key in TeraTerm as Coulomb described. Don't type the spaces. Right-Alt-Q means hold the right-hand Alt key while typing an uppercase Q, i.e. hold a Shift key as well as the right Alt key.

MCHGC020 right-Alt-Q u
MCHGC030 right-Alt-a D
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Post by ChrisHobson »

coulomb wrote:   
As a point of interest, do you get a 2-year warranty, quieter fans, and technical support from the suppliers? We do in Australia from Giant Power. We also get a red coloured front panel:


Comes with the noisy ADDA fans and just a gray/silver front panel with Mecer labelling.
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Post by solamahn »

52 30 firmware has the fans running slower and quieter
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9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by solamahn »

Chris, I dont think you need to worry too much about putting too much current into your battery bank. They will take a lot of current when they are in a low state of charge and if you try to push too much current into a small battery bank, the voltage will rise to the equalise or float setting and the inverter will go into current limit anyway.
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24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by offgridQLD »

"52 30 firmware has the fans running slower and quieter"

So they don't change the actual fans in the giant power units just slow them down via software ?

Kurt
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Post by solamahn »

I would expect that they are the same fans. If someone has one, can the take the bottom cover off and see what fans they are. I had a 4048 running 52 25 and changed it to 52 30 and now the fans run a lot slower. 2kw load and they were still slow.
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24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by solamahn »

The more load that you place on the inverter, then the faster the fans run. Just tried 2.8kw and 3.6kw.
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24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
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9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by solamahn »

I think the reason that the fans run fast all the time in firmware 52 25 is that mppsolar were trying to cure the problem of failures of the mosfets on hs1, thinking, like me taht it was an overheating problem. But running the fans fast all the time does not fix the problem. Higher rated mosfets does and thats what they have done. Now with all the DC terminal screws being tightened from the factory, coated solder terminals on the fans, upgraded mosfets, slower running fans and upgraded firmware, the 3248/4048 will be a much better unit.
Solamahn PNG
24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by Scott »

coulomb wrote:To enable sending of characters with the high bit set...

Crikey! That's no fun.

I wrote a little calculator app (Windows only): CrcGen
It spits out the command+crc as hex bytes for pasting into something like RealTerm. Image

It needs .net 4.5 installed if you're on an older version of windows.
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Post by solamahn »

Chris,
It's got to be a typing error but even so you have nothing to worry about. You will never get more than 60A battery charging out of the solar panels and you will never get more than 60A battery charging from the generator. The generator starts at 5pm so there wont be much solar charging at that time so your combined solar/generator battery charging could never be much more than 60A either. Your size battery bank will tolerate 60A charging. Program 16 could be set to cue but I would set it to SNU. Have 01 UTI and 02 60A or 70A if you cant enter 60A. You might want to have 11 set to something less than 60A so you dont overload the generator. This would depend on the size of the generator and loading by other users. I would set 26 to 56.8 and 27 to 54.5. I just tested a 250Ah battery bank on 60A utility charge, 11 set to 60A and worked fine.
Solamahn PNG
24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by ChrisHobson »

Thanks for all the help. Tomorrow if I can get the battery cabling sorted out will be the moment of truth.
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Post by solamahn »

Use big short battery cables. I am installing a 3248ms today. 12 x 280w 36v 4 x 3 and 8 x 250Ah AGM. No utility or generator. 6 panels facing east and 6 facing west. This setup does not seem to upset the MPPT. You might want to have your panels facing more to the east because the generator starts in the late afternoon when the sun is to the west.
Solamahn PNG
24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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Post by coulomb »

Scott wrote: I wrote a little calculator app (Windows only): CrcGen

Neat! Thanks for that.
MG ZS EV 2021 April 2021. Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
If you appreciate my work, you can buy me a coffee.
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Post by ChrisHobson »

coulomb wrote:
Scott wrote: I wrote a little calculator app (Windows only): CrcGen

Neat! Thanks for that.


I have copied it too. Thanks
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Post by solamahn »

How did you go.
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24x300w, 2x4048ms, 75kw AGM
24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
30x280w, 2x4048V, 12kw AGM
9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
24 x 300w, 5048msd, 20kw Winston
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