PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

solamahn wrote: Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 06:05 Also I notice that my 3 x 72 cell panels PV in voltage never goes over 120v.

That must be because of the hot climate in PNG.
Higher PV in voltage seems to make the SCC perform better.
Interesting. Some people report that their SCCs overheat with higher voltage, and I'd expect that to be worse in a hot climate. I'll keep an open mind. Maybe the overheating, if it's a real effect, is only a problem when the panel voltage is above a certain value, and you rarely see that in PNG.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
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Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

solamahn wrote: Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 06:05 They are the settings I use with AGM’s. No venting because the charging switches to float at 14v before the battery is full, especially if the battery is not hot.
That implies that you're using the factory firmware, which has the premature float bug. Cybersyx is using our patched firmware that fixes it.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

The site I am talking about has 2 x 4048v inverters and is at 37 degrees south. Thankfully I am stuck in Australia at the moment. The switching from bulk to float seems to always occur at about 10A charging. Both inverters have maximum charging current set to 40A but rarely see 80A total charging. This mornings maximum was 56A. Now charging at 9A on float at 11am. I am only using 4 cheap 12v260Ah AGM’s which was supposed to be a temporary measure but they are still going good 4 years later.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by parrafin23 »

Hello Everyone, Its been a while since my last post here.
I have been havin lots of com issue with my inverter.
My supplier told me that the com lead should not be longer than 1meter, Why do they supply with a 2meter one? No reply to that question.
They told me to make it as short as possible. I cut the wire with the rj45 plug and the com plug down to 10cm and crimped on a new rj45 connector. I do have professional tools for terminating cat cables.
That did no diference at all. They told me that the version of watchpower i use (1.14SP5) is the wrong version and that version iss not made by them. They sendt me 1.07 to try out.
But sadly to no vail at all.
You can see it in watchpower unver Warning messages that it drops out and connects back up. I wanted more details on whats goin on so i installed Solar patrol. In the debug section of that software displayed clearly that the inverter drops the connection or slow to respond i have seen up to 15sec of not coms at all.
This is the output of the debuger

Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 10.359
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 11.938
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 16.453
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 12.25
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 10.297
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 5.313
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 7.453
Time between two Read operation exceed estimated time of: 7.5

and the values displayed on the software was all over the place and completly wrong, even watchpower did this. So I suspected the com board to be faulty.

Then my supplier wanted me to video record what was goin on even tho i sendt loads of screen shots. This was the point i had to set my foot down and say enough is enough, I send the unit back for a refund Or i could try a new unit to see if the issue is isolated to just the one i had, and they did agree to this.

Got a new unit a few days later, The first thing i did check was the serial number, I did comare it to the old one and its the same serial. so still a clone. I did write em an email telling them this and i did not like this clone stuff at all.
This "new" unit has the same Fw So i wanted to check if I could update it, but no, it even fails to communicate with it, the com port is avalible.
Id like to try and find where the ic where the firmware is stored so i try to remove the ic from the pcb, make a backup of it and flash new firmware to it manualy.
Is this viable to do?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

parrafin23 wrote: Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 16:08 My supplier told me that the com lead should not be longer than 1meter, Why do they supply with a 2meter one?
It's 2400 bps. Any slower and it would go backwards. Comms cable length isn't an issue, within reason.
That did no difference at all. They told me that the version of watchpower i use (1.14SP5) is the wrong version and that version iss not made by them. They sendt me 1.07 to try out.
Huh. That's nuts.
Got a new unit a few days later, The first thing i did check was the serial number, I did comare it to the old one and its the same serial.
Was the serial number all 5's and 3's, starting with 553? If so, it means that a proper serial number is not written to the EEPROM. You might even get a visit from fault code 90 in the future. Some clones come like this.
This "new" unit has the same Fw So i wanted to check if I could update it, but no, it even fails to communicate with it, the com port is avalible.
Some clones can't be updated at all. But to be fair, until you have sorted out the comms issues, firmware updating is not an option. Firmware updates operate at 9600 bps, 4x the speed of commands and responses.
Id like to try and find where the ic where the firmware is stored so i try to remove the ic from the pcb, make a backup of it and flash new firmware to it manualy.
Is this viable to do?
The firmware is stored in a Texas Instruments DSP chip, and is password protected. Even if you had the password, you'd need special JTAG hardware with the 14-pin plug. So sadly, this is not viable. What firmware version is it, as a point of interest?

This post says that someone fixed their comms/reflash issues by replacing the opto-couplers in the communications board. So that's a possible option if you really want to fix it yourself.

But first, I think you should probably decide Do I Own a Clone? If you do, it may not be worth attempting to fix the comms issues; who knows what parts are in there?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by parrafin23 »

Yes, Serial Number is 55355535553555, Using Device: USB32651A84_55355535553555, this has to be a clone. So a code 90 is welcome to pop in anytime, The sooner the better in my case.
Seems like the coms is ok now with the new inverter.
What I find strange is that it reports that its drawing 1Ah from the bat, but the bat voltage is rising.. something is a miss here.. And I dont have equalization, that would be handy to have.
This device IS nuts, its completly bonkers!
Maini Cpu version 72.70 SEc. Cpu version 4.12
I guess i cant flash this device.

Been speaking with the tech guy that works at the supplier about gettin Victron, so he knows what I would like to replace this crap with, even spoke to my reseller about it. The supplier and the reseller have spoken and have talked about givvin me Victron. I did agree to get a new device and have a go at it. I payed over 1400 usd for this.. I dont expect this crap with that kida prize tag.

I find this device not accurate enough when it comes to values for my liking.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

parrafin23 wrote: Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 19:30 Yes, Serial Number is 55355535553555,
Oh, moan!
So a code 90 is welcome to pop in anytime, The sooner the better in my case.
It depends on how far along the track the clone maker is as to whether this will happen or not.
Seems like the coms is ok now with the new inverter.
That's something. Even the genuine Voltronics seemed to come with marginal comms boards for a while.
What I find strange is that it reports that its drawing 1Ah from the bat, but the bat voltage is rising.. something is a miss here..
Battery current is not measured, but inferred. It can easily be out by an amp or so.
Maini Cpu version 72.70 SEc. Cpu version 4.12
That's at least 6 years old.
I guess i cant flash this device.
Again, it depends on the clone maker.
I payed over 1400 usd for this..
Yikes.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by parrafin23 »

I can give it a try, I cant flash it via usb, so i have to use the serial for it. Ill give it a try when the sun is setting for the evning, cant let all the good green free energy go to waste :D
Got a 49ft long south facing wall that i'd like to cover with solar panels..

I can buy a 360w panel for $187, I dont thin thats a bad.

But if you @coulomb would like to have a look at the system running on the laptop, I do have Teamviewer connected.
Perhaps you can do some "fun" stuf tweak it a bit or perhaps show me some other software I can use for better monitoring the unit, If so.. just give me a shot and Ill send you the details
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by cybersyx »

Hi, thanks a lot for the big help ! This is the battery charge graph:

coulomb wrote: Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 06:27
cybersyx wrote: Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 04:14 Max charge current: 40A
I think that's too low. You have a 400Ah battery, two strings of 200Ah modules. So that's 0.1C. Usually, lead acid is charged at 0.15C, 50% faster. If you increased the maximum charge current to 60A, that also means that the terminating charge current goes up from 8A to 12A, which it would reach sooner as the charge current tapers.

At 0.1C, it would take 10 hours to charge the battery from dead flat. Hopefully you only discharge to about 50%, but that's still about 5 hours, longer if loads take away some of the charge current. So your battery might be just about to go to float when you run out of sun.

We'd have to see the battery charge current curve to be sure that this is what's happening.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

cybersyx wrote: Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 04:42 Hi, thanks a lot for the big help ! This is the battery charge graph:
That shows that Coulomb's theory is correct. So just do as Coulomb said and increase your maximum charge current (setting [2]) to 60 A and it will be able to finish absorb and go to float (if it's not too cloudy).

When an inverter does not have setting [32] (Absorb time), that is the same as having it set to "Aut". So you don't have to worry about that.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by cybersyx »

weber wrote: Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 06:04
cybersyx wrote: Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 04:42 Hi, thanks a lot for the big help ! This is the battery charge graph:
That shows that Coulomb's theory is correct. So just do as Coulomb said and increase your maximum charge current (setting [2]) to 60 A and it will be able to finish absorb and go to float (if it's not too cloudy).

When an inverter does not have setting [32] (Absorb time), that is the same as having it set to "Aut". So you don't have to worry about that.
What bulk and float voltage can I set in order not to damage the batteries? I'm afraid that if they remain in bulk they will be ruined over time. Thanks !
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

@cybersyx Leave all other settings as you had them before. i.e.
Battery Type: AGM
Bulk Voltage: 56.4
Float Voltage: 54.2
This will be safe.

Only change:
Max charge current: 60A
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

cybersyx wrote: Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 19:14 What bulk and float voltage can I set in order not to damage the batteries? I'm afraid that if they remain in bulk they will be ruined over time.
I agree with Weber.

To reduce the amount of time that your battery remains near the absorb voltage, you should on most days be charging nearer the 60A limit than your battery current graph shows. Maybe it was a cloudy day, in which case it's fine.

But if the graph was taken on a fairly sunny day, you might want to consider more solar panels, so that the float stage is usually achieved earlier in the day. Then the battery won't stay at a high voltage as long. But I would not be concerned about the occasional day when float is achieved late in the day, or not at all.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

These batteries are being undercharged, not overcharged. That is why they are not going into float. The absorb stage is not being completed. Increasing the battery charge current limit by itself won’t make any difference. From the battery charge graph, the current is not being clamped at 40A. The battery charge current limit should be increased to 60A or even 80A. The panels need to be connected in 3S, not 2S especially with 60 cell panels,so the MPPT can work properly. A graph of PV voltage and PV power would be helpful in pinpointing the problem. You should be able to get 3,500w normal maximum from 4,000w worth of panels. I get 3,600 from 4,200 worth of panels.
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24x280w, JFY6000
12x300w, 4048ms, 20kw Winston
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9 x 280w, 3024msxe, 10kw CALB
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by weber »

solamahn wrote: Tue, 06 Apr 2021, 18:49 From the battery charge graph, the current is not being clamped at 40A. The battery charge current limit should be increased to 60A or even 80A. The panels need to be connected in 3S, not 2S especially with 60 cell panels, so the MPPT can work properly.
I agree, solamahn. Good on you for persisting. Although I would leave it at 60 A for now.

@cybersyx, do your panels have 60 cells each? If so, you need to rewire them as series of 3. That means that one panel must remain unused, unless you buy two more panels of the same type to go with it.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by solamahn »

Deep Cycle AGM:- AGM batteries should be charged using a charger with a mode switch for AGM type batteries. It is recommended to use a charger, current limited to 20% or 0.2C of the batteries capacity at a charging voltage of between 14.6 – 14.8V following deep cycle use, or 13.6V – 13.8V for standby use. Charging should be paused if the battery or ambient temperature exceeds 50°C.
20% of 400Ah is 80A
This system would work much better with 24 panels, especially if there is no ACin
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

Hi guys, greetings from Italy.

Great job down there! :) :)
Really useful and highly competent forum.

I'm playing with a Steca Solarix PLI5000-48 (should be = PIP5048MS), 9x 60 cells mono solar panels (3S3P) and 3 Pylontech US2000 in parallel.
Steca gives the additional config parameters to fill in for the Pylon tech batteries. Which I thoroughly set up.

System is off grid. No grid at all.

The system seems to work, should still test yield from panels though. We intend to charge a hybrid vehicle. First charge went ok: in a few hours were able to charge the Kia batteries from about 6% to full charge (half sunny day then cloudy, but Pylontech batteries where fully charged).

But we have a warning since first run of the system (no matter if we charge the car, feed an electric heater, or just have a go with a phone charger): warning code 04 appears (and inverter beeps every second) as soon as battery voltage (at inverter) falls below about 49.9-49.6V (could not find exact value as I am distant from the site and the owner is not a trained technician).

Here the config params (sorry for long listing):

01 SbU
02 70
03 UPS
04 SdS
05 USE
06 LrE
07 trE
09 50
11 30A
12 48
13 51
16 CSO
18 bON
19 rEP
20 LON
22 AON
23 byd
25 rdS
26 53.2
27 53.1
28 SIg
29 47.5
30 ONE
31 SbE
32 60
33 EdS
34 60.0
35 60
36 120
37 30d
38 dIS
39 AdS

u1 72 40
u2 04 12

Any ideas how to fix this behavior?

Next step will be fine tune the parameters that seem to be not that correct for my application, for example I don't want to discharge battery below 25%-20% in winter as it should anyway feed a motorized sliding door of the garage so it is not feasible to simply put the inverter in power save mode or shut it off as the door would not work, and inverter absorbs about 45W even without feeding anything)

Thanks!
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by robske_110 »

Good day to you all!
I am currently in the progress of building an island system consisting of 3 pip-5048 and 4 US3000B pylon tech batteries.
I am using a Steca branded (PLI-5000-48 Rev 2 with factory firmware 72.40) PIP inverter.
I have already successfully implemented the (documented part of) pylon battery protocol (RS-485) and implemented all commands working with my pip-5048 which I found in the many and confusing protocol documentations.
The git repos for those (oop, php) implementation are here: https://github.com/robske110/axpertProtocol and https://github.com/robske110/pylonLV-protocol
I am currently working on building an application to enable "smart" regulation of the pip charging using SOC (e.g. charge to 80% first, and then to 100% in the last few hours before sunrise to be more battery-friendly) and "commands" from the battery (e.g. respect its request to stop discharge or charging and its request for a full charge for balancing / calibration reasons).
Of course I plan on releasing that application w/ source eventually too :)

I have a few questions:
- Since I don't have solar panels yet I could not test with them until now. Does the inverter, after completely turning off because of the Battery cut off voltage automatically turn on when PV input comes up? Or do I need to manually "kickstart" it using its switch?
- Is it fine to have the CV and float voltages at the same level? This way I could basically "avoid" the premature float bug by not caring if it goes into float mode...
- In the pip protocol implementation (or the pylon one for that matter) have I missed any important or "magic" commands? My aim is to make a very complete protocol implementation, at least for the pip-5048MS. I know I am still missing a few equalisation set commands.
The list of commands I implemented for the pip are here: GET: https://github.com/robske110/axpertProt ... mandID.php SET: https://github.com/robske110/axpertProt ... mandID.php
The list of commands I implemented for the pylon tech batteries are here: https://github.com/robske110/pylonLV-pr ... l/CID2.php
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 08 Apr 2021, 22:00 Hi guys, greetings from Italy.

Welcome to the forum.
warning code 04 appears (and inverter beeps every second) as soon as battery voltage (at inverter) falls below about 49.9-49.6V (could not find exact value...
This will happen at 49.5V, because of an obscure and undocumented behaviour. It's explained in FAQ #1. The solution is to lower setting 29, the low cutoff voltage, or to reflash with patched firmware. Note that there are two different firmwares with the version number 72.40; one is quite old and for PF0.8 models, and one is for PF1 64V models. Yours is probably the latter. Keep this in mind when choosing a replacement firmware, if you decide to do that.
Settings:
02 70
That's correct for 2 US3000 PylonTechs, 4 should be 140A. [ Edit: My bad. It's correct for 3 US2000s; I mixed up posts. ] It makes subtle differences, even if you don't have enough charging power to get past 70A.
26 53.2
27 53.1
These values are too high for these inverters, even though the manufacturer recommends them. The consensus seems to be 52.5V and 51.8V respectively. With the higher values for these settings, you will get warnings and even disconnection of the battery. There is only 1.5% room for overshoot between 53.2V and 54.0V, where the BMS will disconnect from the inverter.
I don't want to discharge battery below 25%-20% in winter...
For that, you will need the LFP flavour of the patched firmware. Then you can set a sensible value for setting 29, the low cut off voltage. With no charging source other than PV, to prevent further discharge, you have to let fault code 04 (low battery error, as opposed to the warning) shut the inverter down completely. It should start up again next morning without intervention.

Edit: another possibility is to use a battery monitor such as a Victron BMV in conjunction with a control program such as ICC, which may be able to switch off the inverter at a precise SOC value. But that's a lot of expense and setting up.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

Great!
Thanks a lot for prompt answer.
coulomb wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 06:51 when choosing a replacement firmware, if you decide to do that.
Is there any risk in doing that replacement?
It makes subtle differences, even if you don't have enough charging power to get past 70A.
Could you please explain which differences?
With no charging source other than PV, to prevent further discharge, you have to let fault code 04 (low battery error, as opposed to the warning) shut the inverter down completely. It should start up again next morning without intervention.
This is what I wanted to do with the factory firmware (was still not aware of this great patched firmware): i.e. use a higher 12 and or 29 program.
Is there any problem if warning 04 is going on, apart of the annoying beep that anyway can be muted?

I also wanted to follow another route: as the BMS of the Pylons will give me SOC, with a little device like an ESP32 or similar get the info from the
cons
or
rs485
port of the master battery and either shut off the inverter (but then how to turn it on, as I could not find such a command, but maybe it is possible to cable directly the phisical switch) or disconnect the batteries with a switch disconnectors, or to force the inverter use the AC input (if it is possible as I have no AC input and maybe the inverter refuses to switch it)
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by teba »

Hi all!
coulomb wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 06:51
GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 08 Apr 2021, 22:00 Settings:
02 70
That's correct for 2 US3000 PylonTechs, 4 should be 140A. It makes subtle differences, even if you don't have enough charging power to get past 70A.
Coulomb has misread this. The used PylonTechs are US2000 not US3000. So 75A would be the value to take but you can only take 10A steps.
26 53.2
27 53.1
These values are too high for these inverters, even though the manufacturer recommends them. The consensus seems to be 52.5V and 51.8V respectively. With the higher values for these settings, you will get warnings and even disconnection of the battery. There is only 1.5% room for overshoot between 53.2V and 54.0V, where the BMS will disconnect from the inverter.
I use values of 52.5V and 50.3V having the same setup (two paralleled inverters and 8 pieces of US2000).
GioArca67 wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 11:55 Is there any problem if warning 04 is going on, apart of the annoying beep that anyway can be muted?
Steca formerly also told to mute this alarm with setting 18. I did it also with the patched firmware. (This firmware is great!)

Cheers
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

Thanks!
Have you tried to connect to batteries and inverter using comm/rs485?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by teba »

GioArca67 wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 15:13 Thanks!
Have you tried to connect to batteries and inverter using comm/rs485?
I read and log the values from the pylontech batteries using simple serial connection and their command line interface.
To get this cli I send the special string "~20014682C0048520FCC3\r" at 1200baud to the batteries.
The cli on the ''conn'' then communicates with a baud rate of 115200.

The "pwr" command lists all interesting values of all batteries in the string.
There is a help command also.

I setup a small linux box (openWRT) with the ser2net software and use an 4-port RS232-usb adapter to log two battery strings.

The values from inverters I log too. All my scripts are bash.

You can have a look of an older version on github.
GioArca67
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by GioArca67 »

Great
Sorry for OT:what is command 82 as I could not find it?
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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb »

teba wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 14:55
coulomb wrote: Fri, 09 Apr 2021, 06:51
GioArca67 wrote: Thu, 08 Apr 2021, 22:00 Settings:
02 70
That's correct for 2 US3000 PylonTechs, 4 should be 140A. It makes subtle differences, even if you don't have enough charging power to get past 70A.
Coulomb has misread this. The used PylonTechs are US2000 not US3000. So 75A would be the value to take but you can only take 10A steps.
Yes, my bad. There were two posts with Pylontech batteries and I confused them. I've added an edit.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.
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