CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

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CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

I purchased a CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for my KONA from evseadaptors.com
The only quick DC Charging station in my AREA is at the Midland Swan shire, and
it sounds like it will be a long time before they change it from CCS1 to CCS2. I came
across an adapter that is a once piece molded housing with CCS1 pins on one side and CCS2 pins on the other. I was hoping that besides using this for CCS1 to CCS2, I could use the top section as an adaptor from TYPE 1 to TYPE 2. Unfortunately, when it arrived, I found that the AC pins were not populated in the top section of the connectors, so the adaptor could only be used for DC Fast charging. I then tried using it at the DC Quick charging station at the Midland Shire of Swan location. When the Charger starts up, it hangs for a while on the first part during charger to car communications, then it displays an error code 122001. Besides the DC Charging pins and earth ground pins, the adaptor only has the proximity and pilot pins populated, so I'm not sure if some other pins are required for the charger to car communications.

I was wondering if anyone else with a KONA or IONIQ or someone with another brand of CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor could give me any feedback if they have been successful in charging their car at the Midland Shire of Swan charging station.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by jonescg »

Use the charger at Guildford.
And thank CD Dodd for the foresight 🙂
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

I have a moulded all-in-one-lump barrel adapter for type 1 to type 2 AC for my Kona. I didn't know there was a similar device for CCS1 to CCS2 DC. I wonder if the earth pin of the upper section needs connection too, not just the two little communication pins.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by Bryce »

Yes, the 2 comms pins plus the earth go through. (Especially the earth!)
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by Bryce »

Bryce wrote: Sat, 28 Nov 2020, 16:09 Yes, the 2 comms pins plus the earth go through. (Especially the earth!)
Cheers
Bryce
As an addendum: if you check the CCS2 plugs at the charging sites - you'll see the three top pins of the Type 2 socket are populated as well as the 2 big DC pins. These are the proximity and pilot pins (the 2 uppermost) and the earth (middle, larger).
CCS2 plug.jpg
CCS2 plug.jpg (6.34 KiB) Viewed 662 times
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

On the CCS2 side of my adaptor, the top two pins and the center pin are populated in the top section, and the DC Pins are populated in the bottom section, so that all looks exactly like a CCS2 Chargers connector. On the CCS1 side, the Type 1 section is populated with only the bottom three pins, which would be CS, CP, and ground. I just used an ohm meter to check CCS1 CP to CCS2 CP and that is connected but there is no connection from the
CCS1 CS to the CCS2 PP pin. Would someone be able to tell me if These communication pins are suppose to connect CCS1 CS to CCS2 PP, or do these pins have different functions and are not suppose to be connected together? I guess if they are suppose to be connected together, then I have found the problem and I was shipped a faulty adapter.
It's a once piece molded assembly, so would be very difficult to fix.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by coulomb »

larrymudd2 wrote: Sun, 29 Nov 2020, 19:55 Would someone be able to tell me if These communication pins are suppose to connect CCS1 CS to CCS2 PP, or do these pins have different functions and are not suppose to be connected together?
They have different functions. On AC cables (type 2 to type 2 or type 2 to type 1), you find a medium resistance (≤ 1.5 kΩ) between PP (Proximity Pilot) and PE (Protective Earth) at the CCS2 end, signalling the current carrying capability of the cable. This is important in type 2 cables, since type 2 cables are often not tethered, so it's possible to plug a low current carring capacity cable into a higher current capacity EVSE. So the vehicle would use the lower of the two current limits: the current limit dictated by the control pilot, and the current limit dictated by the cable rating.

EVSE cable resistance table.png
EVSE cable resistance table.png (39.18 KiB) Viewed 606 times
I'm not sure about CCS2, but I'd guess that the vehicle still checks the resistance from PP to PE to determine the current carrying capacity of the cable (which in this case is the adapter, which just has to guess a suitable current carrying capacity, if I have the situation correct in my head). So I'd expect to see no connection from the type 1 proximity pin to the type 2 PP, but a medium resistance from the type 2 PP to PE. Can you check this resistance with a multimeter?

On a standard J1772 (type 1) plug, the proximity pin usually does not connect through to the EVSE; it's all connected inside the handle with two resistors and a normally closed switch. Type 2 connectors don't have a button/switch, instead there is a locking mechanism controlled by the vehicle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 ... ircuit.gif
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by coulomb »

I found the below in "Design Guide for Combined Charging System":

CCS2 PP resistor.png
CCS2 PP resistor.png (168.81 KiB) Viewed 601 times
It looks like the resistor is still required, even though digital communication is required, so the current capability of the cable may be communicated digitally. Besides, with DC charging, the charger is external to the vehicle, and the charger cables are all tethered, so the charger can and must limit the charge current to what the cable is capable of (and it has to monitor the temperature of the cable, insulation resistance, and so on). But the vehicle may abort the connection sequence if it doesn't see an appropriate resistance at the PP pin.

The PP pin seems to be involved in all sequences starting back at time period t0 (the above is t3), the "mated" part of the sequence phase, all the way through to t16 ("power down"), just before t17 ("unmated").
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by Chuq »

I'm quite surprised to see a Kona owner spending $1k+ on an adaptor like this. At a guess there are fewer than a dozen CCS1 chargers left across the country? And all of them have a CCS2 charger within 100 km, most of them within 20 km. I wouldn't have expected a Kona owner with 400 km to ever need such an adaptor?
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

Hi Coloumb:
I have done a drawing of the CCS1 to CCS2 Adaptor after buzzing it out.
I do see a 4.1K resistor between TYPE 1 CS and TYPE 2 PP, and I see a 2.7k resistor from the TYPE 1 CS to TYPE 1 PE. So everything in the adapter probably looks ok.
Maybe I just happened onto the Midland Fast DC Charge station when it was broken or in a bad mood. It's been a while since I posted anything, so I've forgotten how to insert images,but here are some links to my reverse engineering below:

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https://imgur.com/vtLSGY4
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

Hi Chuq:

I have a solar powered house that is 100% off the grid, but occationally, during a whole week of rain I need to charge the car in the city. The closest DC fast charger to me is 1 hours drive and it is at the Shire of Swan building. It is still CCS1 and will probably stay CCS1 for quite a while because they have a fleet of Shire cars that are CCS1, So I do not see them changing it in quite a while. I could go to another fast charger (CCS2) that is even farther away, but then I would use up 1hour and 20 minutes of travel just getting back home. The fast chargers in WA are still few and far between. I was also hoping that the AC pins would be populated, so I could also use this adaptor as a TYPE 1 TO TYPE 2 Adaptor, but sadly the AC pins are blank.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by reecho »

The nearest CCS2 DCFC is 3.5kms away from the City of Swan DCFC.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/271709
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by coulomb »

larrymudd2 wrote: Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 08:26 I do see a 4.1K resistor between TYPE 1 CS and TYPE 2 PP,
Are you sure it's not like this? Measuring from PE to PP should clinch it.

Presumed CCS1 to CCS2 adapter.png
Presumed CCS1 to CCS2 adapter.png (167.52 KiB) Viewed 558 times
If they really did put a 4.1 kΩ resistor in there, they possibly measured it wrong, and it might be possible to fix it somehow.

[ Edit: corrected pin for CCS1 CP. ]
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

Hi Coulomb:
Yes your drawing matches my adapter. If you measure from the Type 1 CS pin to the Type 2 PP pin, you are basically measuring the 2.7k and 1.5k in series (via PE) so you get a 4.2k value, and with my crappy ohm meter and tolerance, I measure 4.1k
So it looks like my adapter is wired correctly. It's starting to sound like i just happened across the charging station when it was faulty or in a bad mood. I might try it again next weekend. I would assume that by plugging the adapter to the car, then plugging the charging cable to the adapter, then pressing the start button on the charger would put things in the right sequence for all the handshaking to happen correctly.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by pts260 »

I got this bad boy delivered for under 300Aud https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 4a18poBhZL
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by coulomb »

pts260 wrote: Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 18:02 I got this bad boy delivered for under 300Aud
And... does it work? What ev? Which charger(s)?
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by Chuq »

larrymudd2 wrote: Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 08:34 Hi Chuq:

I have a solar powered house that is 100% off the grid, but occationally, during a whole week of rain I need to charge the car in the city. The closest DC fast charger to me is 1 hours drive and it is at the Shire of Swan building. It is still CCS1 and will probably stay CCS1 for quite a while because they have a fleet of Shire cars that are CCS1, So I do not see them changing it in quite a while. I could go to another fast charger (CCS2) that is even farther away, but then I would use up 1hour and 20 minutes of travel just getting back home. The fast chargers in WA are still few and far between. I was also hoping that the AC pins would be populated, so I could also use this adaptor as a TYPE 1 TO TYPE 2 Adaptor, but sadly the AC pins are blank.
Thanks Larry, interesting use case. I can only guess your driving habits but I'm guessing almost all the time if you travelling more than 100 km you're heading towards Perth anyway? Surely the Guildford CCS2 site (as @reecho mentioned) wouldn't be an issue?

I do like the compactness of the adaptor on that site. Better than the 2 foot long cable versions which would be bulky. And certainly better than putting 50kW into my $60k+ car using a dodgy $300 alibaba device as the other comment above suggests!
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

Chuq:
Going the extra distance from Midland to Guildford is not a problem for me, but things get a bit more complicated when its convening my Thai wife to drive there. Things also get complicated when the charging station in Guildford requires using a mobile phone app to authorize and takes several menu options to drill down through, which is a bit difficult for someone that does not read english. The Midland Charger can be used with the NextCharge RFID Card, so the wife just slaps the RFID card to the side of the charger and away you go. I did contact ChargeFox to see if I could get a RFID Card for the charger in Guildford but they never replied. I might see if I can get a blank card from altronics and program a key that can be linked to the phone app. The option is in the phone app, and the charger does accept RFID Cards if the key is linked.

It would be great if someone could confirm if their CCS1/CCS2 adaptor works with the Midland charger. Then I will know what path to take next.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

PTS260:

My CCS1->CCS2 Adapter looks exactly like yours.
Are you using it with a KONA or IONIQ?
Have you come across any charging stations giving a communications
error when trying to charge?
Are you located in WA?
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by pts260 »

Ok, so hasn't been delivered yet, only purchased about 2 weeks ago. still in transit, but was more talking about the price compared to the ones that have a cable attached to a plug and socket type. I'm in Wollongong and the charger I have purchased it for is: https://www.plugshare.com/location/100770
Has a CCS1 plug and my mum has purchased a Kona electric. So naturally wanted to charge when she came to visit.
I'll update when it is delivered and working with Kona Ev.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

pts260 wrote: Sun, 06 Dec 2020, 18:33 So naturally wanted to charge when she came to visit.
Do you have a power point where you live that she could use? Even if slower, wouldn't that be more assured and convenient than sending her off somewhere else to charge?
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

I've borrowed Jon's Setec CCS1 to CCS2 cable, and this morning we tried to use it on the midland DC fast Charger connecting to joseph's Tesla. This test also failed. This adaptor was tested a while back with a KONA and this DC Fast charger and it previously worked. Later today, i will try testing this Setec adapter with my Kona on this charger and see if it fails again. If it does, it means that something has changed on the charger, because previouly this SETEC adapter has worked with this charger.


https://imgur.com/pDKRq6f

[ Edited Coulomb: embedded actual image, shrunk to 800 pixels width ]
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

coulomb:

I've ohm'd out my EVSE Adapters ccs1 to ccs2 adapter and the SECTEC adapter.
My "EVSE Adapters" wiring exactly matches the schematic drawing you sent earlier in this thread, including the 1.5k and 2.7k resistors.
The SETEC Adapter also matches this drawing, except the 2.7k resistor is not present.
I've tried measuring from Type 1 CS Pin to all other pins on the Type 1 and Type 2 connectors and can find no connection and no resistance to any other pins.
This is very strange, because this was the adapter that Joseph was able to get working with the charger previously.
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by coulomb »

larrymudd2 wrote: Tue, 08 Dec 2020, 11:39 My "EVSE Adapters" wiring exactly matches the schematic drawing you sent earlier in this thread, including the 1.5k and 2.7k resistors.
The SETEC Adapter also matches this drawing, except the 2.7k resistor is not present.
I've tried measuring from Type 1 CS Pin to all other pins on the Type 1 and Type 2 connectors and can find no connection and no resistance to any other pins.
[ Edit: Sigh. The below is all wrong; I was confusing myself with the CCS2 to CCS1 adapter that older BMW i3s need. The 2.7 kΩ resistor on the CCS1 side is looking like the resistor that should be in the vehicle, so it does make some sense. At least the CCS1 charger might see a "vehicle" there, even when just the CCS1 cable is plugged in. Since the CCS1 CS (Connection Switch? I've also seen Control Status) pin is different in function from the CCS2 PP (Proximity Pilot) pin, they don't connect the two, so the 2.7 kΩ resistor makes perfect sense.

Though the EVSE quite possibly would (in fact should) be looking for about 4.5 V (due to the 330Ω resistor to +5V), which is not convenient in a stand alone adapter.

I'll leave the rest of my nonsense here for hysterical reasons. ]

Ah! Thinking about it, the 2.7 kΩ resistor is supposed to be in the vehicle inlet, i.e. it's supposed to be a part of every vehicle with a type 1 inlet (presumably including CCS1). I've seen these literally in the wiring loom of the vehicle; it's not supposed to be in the On Board Charger, if it's to be standards compliant. So it would appear that the 2.7 kΩ resistor is not supposed to be in the adapter or cable, so the SETEC adapter is correct and the EVSE Adapters adapter is wrong (if my understanding is correct).

If it turns out that the 2.7 kΩ resistor is stopping the EVSE Adapters adapter from working, and you can't get it apart, then it might be possible to use something like 75 - 120 V to apply 2-5 W to the resistor and burn it out 👿. Maybe 52 V (1W) might eventually do it. Of course, the resistor might fail lower resistance, or burn plastic or cause a fire, so use with extreme caution and as a last resort. AC would be kinder on whatever you use to switch the voltage on and off, and will burn the resistor just the same as DC.

Edit: rather than burn it out, it might make more sense to drill a smallish (6 mm) hole in a position near where you expect the resistor to be, and try and clip it out. If unlucky, you might have to drill more holes. Then plug the hole(s) and/or use silicone to keep moisture out.

Edit 2: or get the supplier to fix or replace it, and hopefully get the manufacturer to change the design and not put that resistor in, in future.


[ Edit: added section about possibly needing to see the 4.5 V on the CS pin. ]
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Re: CCS1 to CCS2 adaptor for KONA

Post by larrymudd2 »

Coulomb:

I tried the SETEC adapter with the Kona at the Midland charger, and still no luck. I also have a Type 1 to Type 2 adaptor, and ohm'd it out, and also found that the CS pin on the Type 1 side was also not connected to anything, and this adaptor has been working ok with all the Type 2 chargers i've connected it to.

In regards to the 2.7k resistor that you think should not be present, this would mean that the proximity pin on the CCS1 side is open circuit, so if it uses this pin to detect if a car is connected, it would never see any change at this pin. I am wondering if not only is the 2.7k resistor required, but in a original type 1, there is also a 330R pull up resistor to +5v. I am wondering if maybe its not working because there is no supply voltage or pull up resistor on the side simulating a type 1 car connection.
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