Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

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Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 11:08

As per:

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/jump-sta ... evolution/
https://reneweconomy.com.au/victoria-ch ... est-98212/

Australia is going to get its first two 350kW charging stations in Victoria, thanks to the Vic Government and JetCharge!

At the moment it sounds like 2x ABB 350kW chargers, and 2x Tritium 50kW chargers, at each site. All to be Chademo and CCS2. They are under construction now and one proposed to be done by the end of the month, the other by the end of the year.

The locations are:
* Euroa - the old temporary Tesla supercharger site at the Shell service station - https://goo.gl/maps/xpLvixAmoLs
* Barnawartha North - a new greenfields site - https://goo.gl/maps/tEn3BK17GAq

I thought some people here might be interested... and perhaps willing to scout out construction photos? :)

(For those like me who have never heard of Barnawartha North, it's a small town 18 km before you reach Wodonga!)

These two chargers tie in nicely to the NRMA network which hopefully should connect from Albury-Wodonga through to Sydney and other parts of NSW... and on to the existing Queensland network :)

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by brunohill » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 17:32

Just need another two in between so you could drive a LEAF or Imiev from Albury to Melbourne. 110 kms/hr will suck the battery down pretty Quick. I don't think they would like it if you drove at 40 km/hr on the freeway.

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Sat, 12 Jan 2019, 11:53

Article about the under-construction Barnawartha site:

https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/584 ... live-soon/

Paywalled, so...
The second electric vehicle charging station in a national network has been built by a Melbourne-based company at the Barnawartha BP, with the facility expected to go live this month.
Chargefox has raised $15 million, including $1 million from the Victorian government, to build stations across the country that can each deliver more than 300 kilometres of range to electric cars in 15 minutes, “the fastest of any charger currently available in Australia”. The first of 22 sites, at Euroa, went live at the end of last year, and a solar-powered station at Barnawartha is undergoing final testing.
There are four charging points, two with the power output of 150kW, and two capable of 350kW. Chargefox chief executive Marty Andrews said the network would “join the dots on intercity travel”. “The Barnawartha site is on that Melbourne to Sydney leg, which is the most travelled long-distance route for cars in the country,” he said. “It made a lot of sense to start in Victoria and we’ve had incredible support from the state government.
“There’s lots of lower-power stations – we manage several hundred across the country, with local councils or shopping centres – and we’re working closely with the NRMA. “The main difference with these stations is the power. “There’s only a handful of sites in the world that have stations as powerful as this.” The NRMA also has plans to establish a charging station at the Gallipoli Victoria Cross Rest Area in Holbrook.
Mr Andrews said there was “a chicken and egg” situation in that the electric vehicle market in Australia was yet to take off, but there was also not yet adequate infrastructure. “The country needs national-level infrastructure to stimulate the uptake of electric vehicles,” he said. “It will be great to see the network evolve as cars come out – there’s a real opportunity to buy as prices are coming down all the time. “Charging stations are great for tourism as well. “It becomes an obvious stop for people with electric cars, and that means they stop at the cafes and restaurants.”
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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Sat, 12 Jan 2019, 11:57

Actually I just noticed this thread wasn't updated when the news came out that these two sites were part of a national Chargefox network! Expected to be complete by the end of 2019!

18 from Adelaide to Brisbane (mirroring the existing Tesla superchargers) and 3 in WA (Crossing Perth from north to south).

Here's the link: https://chargefox.com/site/ultra-rapid-network

And a copy of the map as it stands today, for historical record :)

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by decryption » Sun, 13 Jan 2019, 14:46

If anyone's interested in the technical details of these chargers, I got to see the one in Euroa getting installed. Nice gear :)

https://www.drivezero.com.au/charging/w ... g-station/

Can't wait for the route from Adelaide to Melbourne and Melbourne to Sydney (via Canberra) to be complete. I like to do annual road trips to both those cities and once the network is in place, I do it in my Ioniq with ease.

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by brunohill » Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 06:13

I wish there was another one between Euroa and Melbourne.

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 07:33

brunohill wrote:
Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 06:13
I wish there was another one between Euroa and Melbourne.
As a Leaf owner, that would be great - but look at the new EVs around today - the ones that will make up the majority of EVs in a few short years. Pretty much all of them have a range of 200+ km. This network will suit all of them, but to build a fast-charge network with twice as many stops (to suit a few hundred Leafs) would obviously cost twice as much. Or, the network would only cover half the distance. It's a lot to give up just to support a small number of vehicles.

Even if there were more chargers, how many people would drive 80-100 km and then charge for 30 min? Over and over, while on a road trip? It's not something that would appeal outside us enthusiasts.

There will be few of us, and we will have to make do with ever second charge being a slow charge - if not off an AC charger, at least off a 15A at a caravan park or a showground.

There's a chance that the NRMA fast chargers might be interspersed with the Chargefox locations in NSW, so that will at least help. Even every second charge being a DC fast charge will be a huge improvement on the current setup! I'm thankful that these stations will even have Chademo - the USA 350kW networks usually only have 1 Chademo connector out of 6-8, and in Europe, IONITY is 100% CCS2!

In the meantime, Victorian Leaf owners could go scouting for slow charge locations between Melbourne and Euroa. Perhaps start on the areas on the fringe of Melbourne, then it's only 75km to Seymour. Between Euroa and Barnawartha, you'd only need one in Wangaratta, which would be a large enough town that it probably wouldn't be difficult to find somewhere. You never know, one of these sites might want to chuck in a 50kW Tritium later as prices come down!

[Edit: Above distances don't take into account anything like elevation changes etc. hence it's best for a local to investigate!]

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by decryption » Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 08:47

It would be great to have a few 50kW chargers around the Melbourne freeways at the service stations. Day to day you might not use them, but if you ever forget to charge (it'll happen) or end up doing a lot of driving in one day, having that DC fast charger not far off your route will be super handy. Only costs ~$50k to install a Veefil-RT (same ones as the NRMA is rolling out in NSW) at a location like a service station that already has ample power feeding it.

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by brunohill » Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 23:10

I understand the logic of the spacing between fast chargers on major roads. When demand becomes higher , in the future, rather than double the number of chargers at these locations, wouldn't it be better to locate extra chargers in between?

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Rusdy » Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 09:40

brunohill wrote:
Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 23:10
I understand the logic of the spacing between fast chargers on major roads. When demand becomes higher , in the future, rather than double the number of chargers at these locations, wouldn't it be better to locate extra chargers in between?
Echoing you here. I simply don't understand the current fixation of super fast chargers and huge battery capacities (i.e >60kWh) for cars. But hey, I guess that's how human psychology works, i.e. cater the least required scenario first, then deal with the general mass later. That's where I gave kudos to Elon Musk, i.e. address top-end car market first.

It's like clearing your apple trees from the tallest part first, and leave the low hanging fruit last. :roll: But hey, we're human... (our mind already held captive by filling car tanks mentality).

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 11:04

brunohill wrote:
Mon, 14 Jan 2019, 23:10
I understand the logic of the spacing between fast chargers on major roads. When demand becomes higher , in the future, rather than double the number of chargers at these locations, wouldn't it be better to locate extra chargers in between?
In the long term that's probably quite likely. A few things will increase the density:
  • Providing access to alternate routes (e.g. a site at Seymour wouldn't be necessary for drivers to get from Melbourne to Euroa, but it would suit drivers heading on to Echuca, etc.)
  • Multiple charge network operators (we are already seeing that occur with the NRMA network - the Holbrook 50 kW NRMA site is only 80 km away from the Barnawartha North 350 kW Chargefox site. Fast Cities is planning to do the same as Chargefox, and while we haven't heard much from them, we don't know what locations they will choose.
  • Small towns who see themselves as "missing out" and a local business or local council will fund a fast charger.
  • Existing locations reaching capacity of the electrical grid. An example would be Tesla in California, where they expanded their original 4 stall sites to 8, then 12, but in the end supplemented it with a brand new 40 stall site in a new location.

Side note: It's disappointing that Chargefox's locations are (so far) in the same locations as Tesla superchargers, because this could have provided alternate options (e.g. Chargefox in Seymour, Supercharger in Euroa, Chargefox in Wangaratta, Supercharger in Wodonga etc.) Doesn't apply to us Leaf drivers of course :) I guess it could be like the way all the fast food outlets spring up at the same intersection - once one of them finds a good spot the others latch on!

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 14:05

Rusdy wrote:
Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 09:40
Echoing you here. I simply don't understand the current fixation of super fast chargers and huge battery capacities (i.e >60kWh) for cars. But hey, I guess that's how human psychology works, i.e. cater the least required scenario first, then deal with the general mass later. That's where I gave kudos to Elon Musk, i.e. address top-end car market first.
I think what has actually happened is that they have sorted the 90% first e.g. the ~90% of car trips which are less than 50 km per day - this was when the Leaf/i-MieV came out. That is the low hanging fruit - doesn't matter about number of public chargers, doesn't matter about battery size, doesn't matter about charging speed - because people just charge slow at home. Easy to do.

Now they are sorting the 10% e.g. the long road trips which are hundreds of kilometres long. They're aiming for the trip to be no harder than the same trip in a petrol car.

Or you might say, they're sorting the 9% (long road trips along major highways) and the bit left is the 1% (driving across the Nullarbor) :)

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Rusdy » Wed, 16 Jan 2019, 08:57

Chuq wrote:
Tue, 15 Jan 2019, 14:05
... They're aiming for the trip to be no harder than the same trip in a petrol car...
This is my main gripe. I think 'harder' has gone un-criticised.

Before having my Leaf and no young kids, it would be easy for me to stay driving for the whole 4 hours without stops, and then quick fuel stop for 5 minutes. It looks like EV and its charging infrastructure is aiming to match this particular driving profile.

If end user behaviour can be changed (I know, it's impossible), so that long drive comprises of 1-hour block, and then 10 minute stops, then, EVs don't require big batteries and ultra fast' charger (>150kW). I myself have done this, i.e. 'long' drive with the kids, and easily stop more than 10 minutes.

At 100kW fast charge for 10 minutes, this adds range to the EV roughly 100km (@0.16kWh/km taken from my Leaf @110kph). That's perfect for another 100km driving at 100kph! I know Leaf doesn't do 100kW fast charge, but I don't see any issue with 100kW DC charger for future EVs (such as Ioniq and Kona). Even better, with this driving behaviour, you don't need more than 20kWh usable range. My personal opinion, 25~30kWh usable range (not battery rating) is a sweet spot to cater auxiliary consumption plus extra range.

This is why I'm lamenting the direction of ultra fast charger (for EV with big batteries not so much, as those are purchased with end user's money). All the money can be spent for more <150kW fast chargers. For logistic transport, that's different story of course.

For those who drive the distance without the need to stop (i.e. having no kids), it's probably best to stop every hour anyway. In the place where I work, any driving for work purposes must stop for 15~20 minutes for every 120 minute driving, traceable by GPS for safety reason.

Ah, silly me. Changing human behaviour is simply impossible.

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Re: Ultra fast chargers (350kW/HPC) in Victoria

Post by Chuq » Wed, 16 Jan 2019, 14:12

Oh don't worry - people will still have to change their behaviour. They'll still have to charge for 15 minutes every 2-3 hours, which is different to what they're used to - but it's in the bounds of acceptable change. But 10 minutes every 1 hour? That's not going to sell EVs. They need to build a network that will appeal to people changing over from a petrol car.

It's worth noting that with the example of the Euroa Chargefox site, the two ABB charging units at 350 kW capable but only have 350 kW of power available between both of them - so effectively it is 2x 175 kW units - with the exception that on the very unlikely occasion that a >175 kW capable vehicle is the only car there, it will be able to peak at 350 kW (for the very brief period that the car will accept that rate).

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