Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

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Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

Hi,

Recently bought a 2019 Nissan Leaf. Looking to install a Level 2 single phase small/mini size level 2 32A charger suitable for Nissan leaf. Are we limited to these 2 options only in Australia or are there more affordable options that are not easy to find using Google search?

https://evse.com.au/product/eo-mini-7-2 ... l-ev-charg...

https://store.jetcharge.com.au/collecti ... s/products...

Would appreciate feedback/options from anyone.

In addition to charger: Also, looking to buy a Level 2 charging cable, any suggestions for it?

PS: I already have 32A RCD with cable connected to the Garage so will be getting an electrician but would be a 5 min task for electrician to plug the 2/3 cables into the charger

"Nissan Leaf" "Charger" "Home Car Charging station"
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by coulomb »

Welcome to the forum.
eco_sam wrote: Fri, 20 Nov 2020, 18:25 In addition to charger: Also, looking to buy a Level 2 charging cable, any suggestions for it?
I found this while searching for an EVSE (didn't find anything of interest with a quick search):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001081150915.html

Actually, I was rejecting tethered solutions since you presumably want to use your type 2 to type 2 cable. But you may find it more convenient to have a tethered EVSE (one with a plug) at home, and keep the type 2 to type 2 cable in the car for public charging. In which case this might work, even though it's not especially small:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001298386474.html
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

Thanks. I checked that out. That charging station is on Amazon for better pricing however as it's not SAA approved, it means no electrician will legitimately install it which will affect insurance at house.

Seems like the options are indeed quite limited as after looking on so many forums, I think spending $1000 on a mini charging station is the best it's going to get
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by jonescg »

I use an OpenEVSE single phase unit. Rock solid, versatile and affordable. Was about $800 Aussie Scholars.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by antiscab »

Put in a 32A power point, and it becomes an appliance.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by coulomb »

antiscab wrote: Fri, 20 Nov 2020, 22:59 Put in a 32A power point, and it becomes an appliance.
That would be a 32A single phase general purpose outlet, right? I don't think that those and their plugs would fare much better regularly running full rated current for long periods of time than a 10 A GPO, with all the same heating and oxidation issues. So potentially the same problems as with a 10 A GPO, but 3.2x as bad. It almost defeats the purpose of the EVSE, although the GPO and plug will last a lot longer if they don't get plugged in and out often.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by antiscab »

Yeah, leave plugged in always, but as it's on a plug it's not considered a permanent fixture.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by Bryce »

Hi all - socket outlets for EVs must still be run back to the switchboard direct with a Type A RCD. 32A socket outlet would be 'OK', but still a pain to use as it would need to be screwed in/unscrewed each time you used it. (Unless leaving it plugged in all the time - in which case - install a proper EVSE!). The plug and socket for a BYO EVSE is more robust and easier to plug/unplug than unscrew a 32A socket each time.

Personally, I recommend using a tethered lead EVSE at home. Have tried all forms and that is the quickest and most convenient to use - provided the plug can be kept dry. (My first one ended up with a corroded E pin).

EVNews edition 234 focused on AC EVSEs and the issues thay can throw up - see that for more detail, (go the members section in AEVA website and look in the EVNews archive) or Renew magazine editions 143, 144, 145, 150 and 151. A new article for Renew is coming on EV charging and solar coupling (will be reprinted in EVNews too). Probably mid 2021 at the moment. (I have a long list of articles to finish ... and the EV Vision conference has slowed my writing to a trickle for nearly 6 months now!)

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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

antiscab wrote: Fri, 20 Nov 2020, 22:59 Put in a 32A power point, and it becomes an appliance.
Thanks - That's perfect, didn't know that was even an option as I thought I had to get a Level 2 EV charger but it seems that is not a requirement based on your response.

So I can get a combination of these 2 and that will be sweet and it will more flexible as the charger is portable:

https://www.evolutionaustralia.com.au/p ... mp-charger & https://agmelectrical.com.au/power-poin ... o1-32.html

I already have 32amp cable going from Garage to switchboard with it's own RCD so I doubt heating would be an issue as these power points are designed to be ON for long time otherwise they simply wouldn't get approval/certification and the power point + electrician won't cost me more than $60 (Already have sparkie coming for other small jobs and if literally has to connect 3 cables to a PowerPoint, it should be under $30)

Only big investment would be the portable charger but it provides me flexibility as I can use the same charger on a 10A and 32A socket
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by jonescg »

My OpenEVSE has a 32 A 3-phase plug supplying it. This socket is supplied by an appropriate breaker in the meter box. I plug just the OpenEVSE into a 32 A 3-phase socket and leave it there.
If I ever need to travel out bush where 3-phase 32 A sockets are my only option, I can plug in. It saves me from buying two EVSEs.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

jonescg wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 15:34 My OpenEVSE has a 32 A 3-phase plug supplying it. This socket is supplied by an appropriate breaker in the meter box. I plug just the OpenEVSE into a 32 A 3-phase socket and leave it there.
If I ever need to travel out bush where 3-phase 32 A sockets are my only option, I can plug in. It saves me from buying two EVSEs.
That's great. I only have 1-phase meter at home though but I am guessing it will do the trick as well
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by jonescg »

Nothing wrong with only wiring up one of the phases and leaving the rest blank. Just use L1 to keep things simple - L1 on a 3-phase socket elsewhere in the country will probably be live too.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by coulomb »

eco_sam wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 14:35So I can get a combination of these 2 and that will be sweet and it will more flexible as the charger is portable:
Not quite; the 3-pin plug option for the EVSE isn't compatible with the white GPO. That 3-pin round plug seems very uncommon, so I don't think you will find it very flexible. The 3-phase plug is far more common, so you could use that with only one phase connected. Use L1 as Chris Jones suggests.
Only big investment would be the portable charger but it provides me flexibility as I can use the same charger on a 10A and 32A socket
Not quite. You can't plug that 3-phase plug into a common 10 A GPO, even though the EVSE can be made to draw 6 A.

For the sort of flexibility you are thinking of, you'd really need a different sort of EVSE that comes with a set of different plugs, like the Juice Booster 2. But that one costs a lot more money.

Or you could make a short adapter cable, say 10 A plug to a 3-phase socket. You can then plug that into the 3-phase plug of the EVSE. If you use a good quality plug, it could be used for 15 A outlets as well as 10 A outlets, as long as it's not for long periods of time at maximum current. It's then up to you to select the appropriate maximum current on the EVSE. I'm pretty sure that there are such cables in the boots of several EVs in Australia.
I doubt heating would be an issue as these power points are designed to be ON for long time otherwise they simply wouldn't get approval/certification
Actually, GPOs are designed for intermittent use. It's generally accepted that if you use a GPO for more than about 4 hours continuously (as you easily could with an EV charger), then you need to only use about 75-80% (I forget which) of the rated current. That may not apply to the 3-phase outlets, which are generally more industrial in design.

Using a 10 A plug at 10 A continuously can lead to something like this (this one seems to be a 15 A plug):

Image

From this post, which is well worth reading.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

coulomb wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 18:30
eco_sam wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 14:35So I can get a combination of these 2 and that will be sweet and it will more flexible as the charger is portable:
Not quite; the 3-pin plug option for the EVSE isn't compatible with the white GPO. That 3-pin round plug seems very uncommon, so I don't think you will find it very flexible. The 3-phase plug is far more common, so you could use that with only one phase connected. Use L1 as Chris Jones suggests.
Only big investment would be the portable charger but it provides me flexibility as I can use the same charger on a 10A and 32A socket
Not quite. You can't plug that 3-phase plug into a common 10 A GPO, even though the EVSE can be made to draw 6 A.

For the sort of flexibility you are thinking of, you'd really need a different sort of EVSE that comes with a set of different plugs, like the Juice Booster 2. But that one costs a lot more money.

Or you could make a short adapter cable, say 10 A plug to a 3-phase socket. You can then plug that into the 3-phase plug of the EVSE. If you use a good quality plug, it could be used for 15 A outlets as well as 10 A outlets, as long as it's not for long periods of time at maximum current. It's then up to you to select the appropriate maximum current on the EVSE. I'm pretty sure that there are such cables in the boots of several EVs in Australia.
I doubt heating would be an issue as these power points are designed to be ON for long time otherwise they simply wouldn't get approval/certification
Actually, GPOs are designed for intermittent use. It's generally accepted that if you use a GPO for more than about 4 hours continuously (as you easily could with an EV charger), then you need to only use about 75-80% (I forget which) of the rated current. That may not apply to the 3-phase outlets, which are generally more industrial in design.

Using a 10 A plug at 10 A continuously can lead to something like this (this one seems to be a 15 A plug):

Image

From this post, which is well worth reading.
Thanks for that. I read the whole article thoroughly and as far as I can see, it says a dedicated point with its own circuit shouldn't be an issue however it did have one useful warning and that was not to plug/un-plug often so that's something I need to consider but based on that article, it seems the solution I mentioned above using an industrial quality 32AmP power point with its own RCD should be good.

Thanks for sharing that post. I may get a different charger based on that but the actual electrician work doesn't change as the sparkie will still be plugging in a 32A power point as per original plan
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by jonescg »

Here's a picture of my setup for reference:
20200621_141615.jpg
20200621_141615.jpg (194.62 KiB) Viewed 116 times
And in the background the Hyundai-issued 2.2 kW EVSE which plugs into a 10 A GPO and works just fine.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by brendon_m »

coulomb wrote: Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 18:30 Actually, GPOs are designed for intermittent use. It's generally accepted that if you use a GPO for more than about 4 hours continuously (as you easily could with an EV charger), then you need to only use about 75-80% (I forget which) of the rated current. That may not apply to the 3-phase outlets, which are generally more industrial in design.

Using a 10 A plug at 10 A continuously can lead to something like this (this one seems to be a 15 A plug):

Image
I can vouch for the burnt plugs.

I run through a 10A gpo on one of my cars and I had to replace plugs and sockets a few times when it was at the full 2400W. Now I have the charger turned down to ≈1900W and I don't have any issues, though I do check the plugs, sockets, leads etc periodically.
(although at 1900W it draws ≈9A due to the power factor, so at the 2400W it was probably over loading the sockets :oops:)

My other car runs through a 15A socket using the 15A evse that comes from mitsubishi which I'm led to believe is set to 10A/2400W (but I've never actually verified that).

With plugs and sockets if you don't run them at the full limit and constantly plug and unplug them it should be fine.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by Bryce »

I have a number more photos of failed 3 pin plugs where that came from! Bottom line is I recommend the following approach (from 12 years of EV building, driving and as an electrician):
1. For your PRIMARY charging position, use a proper hard-wired Mode 3 EVSE. (A 32A round-pin screwed outlet is OK - but the portable 32A EVSE and adaptors will be significantly more expensive than a basic fixed EVSE);
2. For occasional top-ups at friends, caravan parks and the like: good, single circuit power points are fine (preferably it is a new circuit installed with a Type A RCD);
3. Ordinary home power points, particularly in older houses, are a no-no unless for a one-off emergency and the EVSE is set to 2kW or lower.

For a portable EVSE - I recommend a 15A (3.6kW) one for traveling in addition to the one that comes with the car. That will charge even a Kona 20% to 100% as a 15hr evening/overnight at a caravan park. (eg 5pm to 8am). It will also get you around 24km charged per hour to get you to the nearest DC charger. (One day, 30 min at such an emergency rate will likely get you to a DC charger... but not yet ;-) )
BTW: If the portable EVSE can be switched from 2, 2.4 and 3.6kW - using a 10 - 15A adaptor means you can leave the car's one out if you need the room. (I prefer carrying the 2 EVSEs ... just in case of a failure as DC chargers are yet to be fully rolled out :-) )

Ducks-nuts portable EVSE solutions that do 1.6kW to 22kW are available - but they cost (with adaptor set) $1600-ish to $2500-ish. Basic fixed EVSEs start at around $700ish and 15A (3.6kW) portable EVSEs from around $650.

Hope that helps?

Cheers
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

Bryce wrote: Sun, 22 Nov 2020, 07:21 I have a number more photos of failed 3 pin plugs where that came from! Bottom line is I recommend the following approach (from 12 years of EV building, driving and as an electrician):
1. For your PRIMARY charging position, use a proper hard-wired Mode 3 EVSE. (A 32A round-pin screwed outlet is OK - but the portable 32A EVSE and adaptors will be significantly more expensive than a basic fixed EVSE);
2. For occasional top-ups at friends, caravan parks and the like: good, single circuit power points are fine (preferably it is a new circuit installed with a Type A RCD);
3. Ordinary home power points, particularly in older houses, are a no-no unless for a one-off emergency and the EVSE is set to 2kW or lower.

For a portable EVSE - I recommend a 15A (3.6kW) one for traveling in addition to the one that comes with the car. That will charge even a Kona 20% to 100% as a 15hr evening/overnight at a caravan park. (eg 5pm to 8am). It will also get you around 24km charged per hour to get you to the nearest DC charger. (One day, 30 min at such an emergency rate will likely get you to a DC charger... but not yet ;-) )
BTW: If the portable EVSE can be switched from 2, 2.4 and 3.6kW - using a 10 - 15A adaptor means you can leave the car's one out if you need the room. (I prefer carrying the 2 EVSEs ... just in case of a failure as DC chargers are yet to be fully rolled out :-) )

Ducks-nuts portable EVSE solutions that do 1.6kW to 22kW are available - but they cost (with adaptor set) $1600-ish to $2500-ish. Basic fixed EVSEs start at around $700ish and 15A (3.6kW) portable EVSEs from around $650.

Hope that helps?

Cheers
Bryce
Thanks Bryce. Just to ensure we are on same page and comparing apples to apples. Are you saying that you got burnt plugs from a 32A 3-PIn socket with a dedicated RCD and using a charger that's designed to be plugged into a 32A 3-PIn socket. If yes, I would love to know more please!
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by Bryce »

Hi Sam-yes, a 32A round pin outlet with a portable 32A EVSE as a primary charger would be ok, provided it stays screwed together most of the time to ensure the connections don't get the chance to loosen, and is a single circuit direct back to the switchboard using a type A RCD. (BTW in your situation, I doubt an electrician would agree to adding one to an existing garage circuit as it contravenes AS3000 Appendix P for an outlet intended for EV charging). Also, as per my costings in the above post: it is likely to be the most expensive option! In the limited circumstance of it being removed once or twice a year to go tripping and it lives under cover - I would probably choise that option myself. For the vast majority of people though, it wouldn't be a good solution. (BTW: I have replaced melted 32A round pin plugs and sockets too. Not yet for an EV, those were for often plugged/unplugged high current machines!)
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Last edited by Bryce on Sun, 22 Nov 2020, 11:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

Bryce wrote: Sun, 22 Nov 2020, 11:15 Hi Sam- a 32A round pin outlet with a portable 32A EVSE as a primary charger would be ok, provided it stays screwed together most of the time and is a single circuit direct back to the switchboard using a type A RCD. Unfortunately, as per my costings in the above post: it is also likely to be the most expensive option! In the limited circumstance of it being removed once or twice a year to go tripping and it lives under cover - I would probably choise that option myself. For the vast majority of people though, it wouldn't be a good solution. (BTW: I have replaced melted 32A round pin plugs and sockets too. Not yet for an EV, those were for often plugged/unplugged high current machines!)
Cheers
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Thanks, yes based on the advice I have got so far, it would be the least expensive($850 for charger and $60 for install with PowerPoint) and most flexible option and only thing I need is to leave it plugged in and If so have to take it out once or twice a year, it's not so bad as it won't be often.
- Also, if I ever sell the house - A future owner isn't stuck with a car charger and can use the point for other things as it's a standard design outlet - Just with 32A power

The charger with the link I provided specifically has a bigger earth module and is designed to be plugged into a 3 wall socket for more than 12 hours a day so I can't comprehend why their would be any issues when I am using the product based on its design and intended use
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by Bryce »

Hi Sam-just amended my post to add that your suggested situation would though still contravene Appendix P in AS3000 as it is an outlet fot EV charging. You would need a separate circuit and Type A RCD-be it a 32A outlet or EVSE.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

Bryce wrote: Sun, 22 Nov 2020, 11:32 Hi Sam-just amended my post to add that your suggested situation would though still contravene Appendix P in AS3000 as it is an outlet fot EV charging. You would need a separate circuit and Type A RCD-be it a 32A outlet or EVSE.
Cheers
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Thanks Bryce. That's the part I am getting confused that why everyone keep suggesting otherwise when I covered it multiple times in the post that I have a separate circuit with its own RCD and not sharing load with anything in the house.
- I am just not sure where the confusion is and can't find what I am missing that everyone keep suggesting burnt plugs but when I asked if someone has the same setup and still aware of issues then I don't get any relevant response.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by Bryce »

Hi Sam-in your case it's not likely to become a burnt plugs issue provided it is rarely unplugged - but it is still a shared circuit issue. Outlets for EV charging must not be shared for any other use. Your description says the circuit includes the garage.
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by eco_sam »

Bryce wrote: Sun, 22 Nov 2020, 12:35 Hi Sam-in your case it's not likely to become a burnt plugs issue provided it is rarely unplugged - but it is still a shared circuit issue. Outlets for EV charging must not be shared for any other use. Your description says the circuit includes the garage.
Cheers
Bryce
The circuit is not shared - it has its own RCD and turning off RCD only turns off that plug and nothing else in the house/garage. The special 32A cable is going straight from RCD into a plate in Garage with nothing else connected/shared with it
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Re: Electric Car (EV) Home Charger - 32A - Options?

Post by Bryce »

Ah, now I see! In that case, have a Type A RCD fitted, get the round pin 32A socket fitted to the other end and Bob's your aunty's live-in lover. 😆
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