Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

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Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by E-STATION » Sun, 14 Oct 2018, 16:47

Is the Renault Zoe warranty voided if used with a non Renault Z.E. 1.4 certified charging station? Did the dealers mention this and/or is there any relevant information in the documentation supplied with the car.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by antiscab » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 00:16

That sounds like the most ridiculous thing ever. I can't see that complying with our consumer laws
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by jonescg » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 09:48

Has there been any suggestion this might be the case Patrick?
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by g4qber » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 11:18

sounds like what the Melville Holden Business manager said when there were issues with the Volt tripping RCDs when using non Holden EVSE
words to the effect "You need to use a SONY charger to charge your SONY phone"

undoubtedly, the Holden EVSE has less likelihood of RCD tripping.

found this post
https://www.speakev.com/threads/inconsi ... able.7400/

page 5 of
https://www.cdn.renault.com/content/dam ... nce-18.pdf
"The use of a non-Renault approved charging device"
"The charge on a charging point not satisfying the standard recommended by Renault or the charge on an installation not equipped with a charging
device following the manufacturer’s recommendations as described in Owner’s Handbook, the Vehicle’s Warranty & Service Sheet."
"Damage resulting from a battery charge not satisfying the standard recommended by RENAULT as stated in the Owner’s handbook

https://www.renault.com.au/vehicles/ele ... c-vehicles
"Renault insists that its charging partners are Z.E. Ready certified, to ensure that both wall box and installation are compatible with the Renault electric vehicle that you choose.
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by TomZoe » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 13:50

I’ve owned Zoe since March - charging at home with Tesla walk charger and it doesn’t always take the first time.

Renault Essendon (Melbourne, vic) openly tell owners and potential owners of the Zoe to use Tesla chargers at shopping centres etc!

I also use a portable unit purchased from evnomics.com.au

I also plug into the charger down in Geelong foreshore.

I think this thread might be starting an unnecessary panic.

The Zoe is very fussy and she won’t start to take power unless she knows it is right. The power is then fed through the on board charger before it even enters the battery.
Zoe controls amount of electricity she takes so risk of battery damage not really there.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by g4qber » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 16:54

@TomZoe Is your Tesla charger set to legacy mode?
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 18:54

I have charged my Zoe at a number of Tesla chargers. They must be in legacy mode.

I also have a third party EVSE and a three phase OpenEVSE all of which work very nicely.

The Renault dealer here is also Nissan and I noticed them charging both cars with a third party EVSE.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by reecho » Wed, 17 Oct 2018, 20:35

TomZoe wrote:
Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 13:50
I’ve owned Zoe since March - charging at home with Tesla walk charger and it doesn’t always take the first time.

Renault Essendon (Melbourne, vic) openly tell owners and potential owners of the Zoe to use Tesla chargers at shopping centres etc!

I also use a portable unit purchased from evnomics.com.au

I also plug into the charger down in Geelong foreshore.

I think this thread might be starting an unnecessary panic.

The Zoe is very fussy and she won’t start to take power unless she knows it is right. The power is then fed through the on board charger before it even enters the battery.
Zoe controls amount of electricity she takes so risk of battery damage not really there.
Renault Zoe's and old single phase Tesla destination chargers do not mix. These chargers are thinner on the ground no but some are still out there. The new 3 phase chargers stow the wand on the side of the charger.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by TomZoe » Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 11:01

I don’t know what legacy mode is.

It is a 3 phase set to maximum - around 18 months old - we got the first model X in Victoria.

I find Zoe seems to take if charger is off at switch and has Been off. I unlock Zoe cap / plug charger in and then walk back to switch and turn on.

This works around 90% of time without restarting.

Zoe thinks about it and will take within 1 minute.

Note with portable charger from evnomics.com.au Zoe takes instantly.

My own personal rule of thumb is I’m happy to try a 3 phase Tesla destination charger (there’s one at local shops) but again this can take a few attempts.

If I don’t know what phase the Tesla destination charger is
Or I know it’s single phase I won’t even try.

Eg; in Victoria the racv City club Tesla charger is 3 phase and I’ve used that - the one in torquay is single phase and I wouldn’t.

I still maintain that an electric car’s best friend is a 32A 3 phase power point!

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 11:07

Tesla EVSEs can be set in Tesla-only mode where there is a special interchange with the car and the non-Tesla car can not use it.

Legacy mode allows Teslas and non-Teslas to use it.

I have found the Zoe takes a little bit of extra time before the charging starts and I understand this is because there is an initial interchange initiated by the Tesla EVSE and the Zoe does not (correctly) understand it. Then the Tesla EVSE behaves like a normal Type-2 EVSE.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 11:08

I also agree it is probably a good idea to avoid the Tesla single phase units if they have all phases connected to L1. It is usually possible to find a plate somewhere saying whether it is 3 or 1 phase.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by coulomb » Tue, 23 Oct 2018, 06:53

As a point of interest, why do you avoid single phase EVSEs?

Is it because you have three on-board chargers and will load up the supply so much? But my understanding is that the Mennekes [ edit: was J1772] protocol will only allow charging up to the level that the EVSE is designed for and can comfortably supply.

[ Duh: If it's three phase, it can't be J1772. ]
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Tue, 23 Oct 2018, 07:08

Because it appears that the Tesla single phase chargers connect L1 to L2 and L3. So it looks like three phase but all the phases are in sync. I am not sure that any equipment normally designed for three phase would like to be connected to such a setup unless specifically designed for it (Tesla). I would not want to risk my Zoe's onboard three phase charger in that way. Maybe it works but it certainly would not be a legit arrangement if there was a problem. The Zoe handles single phase by detecting voltage on a single phase, which I believe is L1. Certainly when I use my OpenEVSE on single phase, I pipe the juice only down L1 to Zoe.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by coulomb » Tue, 23 Oct 2018, 07:35

doggy wrote:
Tue, 23 Oct 2018, 07:08
So it looks like three phase but all the phases are in sync. I am not sure that any equipment normally designed for three phase would like to be connected to such a setup unless specifically designed for it (Tesla). I would not want to risk my Zoe's onboard three phase charger in that way.
I guess the problem would be the neutral current. With three in-phase actives, the neutral current is the sum of the active currents. In a normal three-phase setup, the neutral currents sum to nearly zero. Even if they beefed up the neutral wire in the supply cable, the pin in the connector would presumably not be designed to carry three times the current of the active pins. The neutral wire inside the Zoe might have similar limitations.

I wonder how Teslas solve this problem.
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Tue, 23 Oct 2018, 11:13

Agreed re the Neutral. From memory, I think the Zoe uses one of L2/L3 internally as a neutral for single phase (switched by contactor). I am pretty sure their normal Neutral is not very substantial as per normal convention, because it is not needed in real three phase mode. I would certainly not like to connect my Zoe to a bodgy setup with L1/L2/L3 connected together. Now THAT might be a way to void the warranty (if something went wrong).
Maybe the Tesla cable neutral can handle 32A in the case of their single phase destination chargers. Inside the car they probably run three sets of two wires each to a single phase charger.

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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by antiscab » Wed, 24 Oct 2018, 08:00

Tesla has L1 connected to L1 and L2. Neutral is connected to neutral and L3. Or close to
That's where the problem is
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Wed, 24 Oct 2018, 08:19

AHA! Thanks for that info.
Definitely do not want to connect Zoe to that arrangement!
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Re: Is the Renault Zoe Warranty Voided If Used With A Non Renault Z.E. 1.4 Certified Charging Station?

Post by doggy » Thu, 25 Oct 2018, 04:09

I just realised something. I successfully charged my Zoe from a single phase Tesla charger at Dee Why RSL in Sydney a couple of months ago. This was before I knew anything about phases/neutrals on Tesla chargers. So either that EVSE is not connected in an unusual way or Zoe can handle it! The charging points were installed a few months ago.

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