Zoe charging

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Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 13:50

Hi Folks, FYI I have been doing some testing of charging with my three phase OpenEVSE and Zoe. Tests so far are at 18deg ambient:

From 0% SOC to 55% SOC, 32amps per phase, notional 230V per phase so 22kW- the maximum claimed for the Chameleon charger. The test was at St Ives Showground, Sydney and I do not know what the actual voltage per phase was. Indeed, it probably increased as the amps dropped due to wiring losses at the Showground. The table shows kWHrs assuming 240V. SOC is as shown by the Zoe.

After that, current per phase starts to drop off per the following:

Time A SOC kWHrs (Cumulative)
1205 30a 56%
1208 25a 58%
1210 24a 60% 1.65Kwhr
1215 22.5 63% 3kw
1220 20.9 66% 4.2kwhr
1225 20.9 70% 5.7kwhr
1230 20.6 73% 6.81kwhr
1235 19.3 75% 7.95kwhr
1240 18.7 78% 9.12kwhr
1245 18.5 80% 10.10kwhr
1250 18.0 83% 11.22kwhr rem. 45minutes
1255 17.1 85% 14.13kwhr rem 40minutes
1300 16.5 88% 13.22kwhr rem 35minutes
1305 15.6 90% 14.12kwhr rem 35minutes
1310 14.5 92% 15.00kwhr rem 30minutes
1315 13.8 94% 15.78kwhr
1320 12.9 96% 16.66kwhr

Therefore, estimated time to charge from 0% SOC to 96% SOC is 2hrs 17mins. Renault claimed time 0-100% is 2hrs40mins. So pretty consistent, particularly as time to full on the GOM was 25mins.

From about 97% SOC a single phase 32A charger is fine and three phase has no benefit.

Having a 43kW charger (as in the Renault Zoe Q90) would only be of benefit below 55% SOC and only if you could find a 43kW outlet (rare in Aus). That would save 30mins or less from the charging time.

Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by reecho » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 18:46

Renault Australia made the wise decision not to import the Q90. They are way too lossy charging on 10-15A single phase supply..

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by antiscab » Wed, 29 Aug 2018, 23:56

Do you have efficiency numbers at that charge rate? I know pf gets pretty bad, I'm just surprised efficiency would drop substantially
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Re: Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Thu, 30 Aug 2018, 05:23

I did some tests yesterday at a mere 6amps and it was like watching grass grow. I wanted to know because I am putting in solar and looking at automating Zoe charging when there is surplus power and varying that "on the fly" from 6 to 15amps. In my 22kW test, it was apparent that efficiency is around 85-90% at the high amps and with three phase. It was nice seeing the SOC rise 1% in just over each minute.

To increase SOC 1% at 5.9amps (& 240V) took 34minutes. I waited until the SOC ticked over 1% to 87% and started timing and measuring watts. I put in 680watts until it ticked over to 88%. Therefore the efficiency at 5.9amps is about 60% if one assumes 1% of 41kWHr is 410watts. This latter assumption might be subject to some error. However, the 60% is close to what people overseas have said.

I checked VA against watts from my smart meter (on the house) and they were within 1-2% so there was no power factor problem. PF must be close to 1.0. So I am not sure where rumous of bad PF come from. On the other hand, it might vary with SOC so all I can really say is that power factor is very close to unity at 87% SOC.

Regards,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by LouB » Fri, 31 Aug 2018, 11:17

Hi Dave,

I'm stiil some weeks from purchase of the Zoe, so cannot offer any personal experience with charging efficiency. Attempting to charge at 6A seems a great trial of patience. I have read some OS posts indicating that: at such low power, the on-board charger may not be operating at all and that EVSE needs to be set to at least 10A, where possible.

For example see: http://myrenaultzoe.com/index.php/2016/ ... nny-cable/

I too will be trying to harvest surplus power from our solar PV system and hope that a 32A (7 kW nominal) single phase EVSE will be sufficient. Charge times of < 8 hours, from 20% to 80% would be adequate for us.

Cheers
Lou

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 15:48

Hi Lou, there was a problem with older Zoes not charging at 6A but I can assure you mine works at 6A as does another that I know about.

But things go much more satisfactorily at 18A single phase or 32A three phase. Also, 10A single phase is not too bad. With our mileage of around 200km a week, there is no way we need a fixed EVSE. My portable 10/16/32 or the OpenEVSE 6A->32A single or three phase is perfect. I will be using the latter for the variable solar charging with its "Eco mode". I might add a further 1.2KW to the solar which will boost the charge rate and cut losses somewhat but I also need to move some of the constant power usage to daytime before that is worth doing.

I only have a 3KW solar system at the moment so the max I can get is 10A as an offset to grid export. I have almost finished the work to automatically charge and vary the charge rate when my solar system has enough capacity and would otherwise be exporting to the grid.

I think your solar and 32A will be more than adequate for your needs.

Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by E-STATION » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 19:48

How much are Renault charging for a wall mounted 7 kW/22 kW charging station?

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 15:02

It is not Renault who install anything. They have a "recommended" dealer they tell you about but there are no discounts and I experienced no pressure. Just a one line email with the recommended company. I contacted the recommended organisation and found the prices way too excessive especially when they started talking about meter box upgrades. I am perfectly happy with my portable EVSE (32/16/10amps) and my OpenEVSE which I use on a range of things from single phase ordinary power points, a welder outlet and three phase outlets.Much cheaper than the couple of thousand dollars for an installed wall box. At the moment I am limited to 18amps (welder outlet) at home but might get an electrician to install a dedicated 32A outlet with own RCD and 6 or 10 mm2 cabling to the garage. Much more generally useful than a fixed EVSE. Incidentally, I noticed the Nissan/Renault dealer using portable EVSEs for their casual overnight charging of Nissans and Renaults!

You will need three phase in order to have a 22kW capability at home. You would need to be on the road all day and some of the evening to need 22kW at home. It would be nice but expensive.

Cheer,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 14:51

Hi, I live in Bendigo Victoria and have owned a Zoe since March (first private sale in Victoria). We have a Tesla wall point at home as well as a 3 phase power point. In car I carry a portable charger purchased from Jetcharge in North Melbourne. I just had a quick question around the connectivity - can I put a SIM card into Zoe or connect the Zoe to home wifi network? Dealer didn't seem to know about this but it is done in UK. regards, Tom

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Sat, 15 Sep 2018, 10:40

If you look in your user manual you will see "Renault Connected Services". This operates through the car's 3G connection. But alas it is not yet available in Australia. I have been onto Renault Australia about this and they say it might come but cannot say when. So, I suggest you pester them (politely) as well. The more of us who ask when it is going to be turned on the better. I already have the App on my phone. Just need the special password (which is unique for each car). All the other countries have it, why not Oz? Maybe it is a timezone issue? Surely it is just a matter of connecting to the Renault Server in France? I would not care if I had to do a mental timezone translation but I am not even sure if it is timezones.
Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 08:47

I have downloaded the iPhone app Z.E. services my Z.E. RENAult. When I try to register Australia is not an option / Austria is though!

I did ask Renault when I got the car but I’ll do again.

From what I gather in Uk, You can pay an annual subscription to Renault - via a dealer- to stay connected via iPhone.

I also saw online a WiFi gadget stuck into tray where
12v power is that is in effect a WiFi dongle . I don’t feel game enough to find buy and do this.

Tom

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 10:50

The ZE services operate through the car's 3G SIM. not through WiFi.

Your PC or phone then interact with the car via the Renault Server.

You should ask Renault Australia for "Z.E. Connected Services" for Australia. I have had several interactions with them on the subject.

They will tell you it is not available here.

They did tell me that they could understand why people would want it here and that sometime it will/might become available. But not times or dates given

What it needs is for all Zoe users (who want it) to contact RA Australia Service and ask the questions and request it for Australia.

If there is enough demand, that will hopefully pressure them to make it available.

In Europe, you get three years free on ZE Connected services. It only becomes payable after that.

Regards,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by LouB » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 12:13

I have no info on 'ZE Connected Services', but I do have some knowledge of OBD2 scanners and related Android apps.
I've used a MaxiScan OBD2/EOBD scanner for years on my ICE vehicles.

Something similar is available for Renault ZE vehicles.
Threre's a cheap scanner (LEM327 Bluetooth Konnwei KW902 V1.5) and there's the free CanZE app.
Here is a description from the CanZE site:

"CanZE is an Android App that allows you to read out some useful information out of your Renault ZE car (actually Zoe, Kangoo Z.E. & Fluence Z.E.) that you cannot access using the on-board computer or display.
It uses either some custom hardware or an ELM327 Bluetooth dongle to interface the CAN-bus of the car an retrieve or request every information from there.
The app is displaying information as gauges, bar charts or text."

If this looks adequate for your needs, you can get more info from:

https://canze.fisch.lu/about/

This video makes the whole thing clearly understandable:

Renault zoe analyze battery OBII and canze
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2U4RfimDyk

I have the Konnwei KW902 on order from Hong Kong ($17 AUD)
I think the Zoe OBD2 port is under the tray, in front of the gear stick.

We should be taking delivery of a blue Zoe in just over 1 week.

Cheers
Lou

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:04

I will order a Konnwei KW902. I think CanZE is avaiable in the Apple Appstore - I'm downloading it now! THanks for the advice

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:11

Just downloaded CanZE app but its in French!

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by tassie_tiger » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:24

TomZoe wrote:
Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:11
Just downloaded CanZE app but its in French!

Swipe main screen from left to right and you will have a settings screen.

Language combo is on the bottom.
My hobby interests are EV's and competitions. aeva.asn.au for ev's and www.lottos.com.au for competitions. If your partner complains about you ev'ing, send 'em to lottos!

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by LouB » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:40

Hi TomZoe,
Sorry to hear that.
The Android version of CanZE from Google Playstore that I have installed is in english.
I am aware that IOS could present some problems with language and communications type.

This from the CanZE site on their Team "IOS" page:

"Posted on October 22, 2016
CanZE was ported to ISO by Frédéric Richard.
Actually the app is still in “TestFlight” mode, so only invited people can get it to test. CanZE for IOS uses a WiFi dongle, as the connection with a bluetooth dongle is not possible under ISO."

I don't know if there have been any developments since, but there is quite a bit of discussion around this topic on European forums.

Cheers
Lou

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 13:42

Phew - that was easy enough.

Any difference between the Konnwei 902 gadgets ?

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by LouB » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 14:15

Hi TomZoe,

Yes the version of Konnwei 902 is important. Somewhat surprisingly, others have found that version 1.5 works with the Zoe whereas higher versions do not.

Do look at:

https://canze.fisch.lu/ios/

for a lot of ins & outs re interfacing iPads and iPhones with CanZE and Zoe.

Cheers
Lou

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by doggy » Sun, 16 Sep 2018, 19:02

This is the one I bought from Amazon Australia and use with CanZE on my Zoe:

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B07C87SD44 ... 12_TE_item

No longer available from that supplier.

It has been working fine. However, as Lou said, there are different models and this is one that works.

Cheers,
Dave

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 14:07

I have just ordered the second option LE link Bluetooth LE
OBD II Dongle. The CanZE app lists this as compatible and I like fact the it says it’s compatible with IPhone.

I’ll report back as to whether or not it works.

Regards
Tom

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by TomZoe » Thu, 20 Sep 2018, 11:39

Does anyone know if this is suitable for charging Zoe from a Type 1 outlet:

Type 1 to Type 2 EV Adapter Cable 32A

One supplier of these cables has said that it will not work with Zoe however another supplier openly advertises that they are suitable for Renault EVs.

I would hate to blow up my Zoe ......

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by antiscab » Thu, 20 Sep 2018, 16:03

Works fine on my zoe
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Re: Zoe charging

Post by LouB » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 10:08

Congratulations Dave on your interesting article in Oct-Dec EVNews on the Zoe

I too feel that the non-adjustable regeneration is fairly efficient. It's quite apparent on long downhills when more range appears to be added than the travelled distance. Driving from my place to the nearest shopping centre, the Zoe always gains some 5 km of range; though inevitably pays for it on the return, uphill journey :( .
Am I right in thinking that the latest Zoes have had their on-board charger derated to 22kW max? If so, could it have something to do with the BMS system not quite coping with sustained 43kW AC charging?

I haven't tried looking for public charge points that can provide up to 43k AC to suit the Zoe. Are there any?

Cheers
Lou

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Re: Zoe charging

Post by Bryce » Tue, 16 Oct 2018, 13:20

Hi Lou - Zoes here are only 22kW for three phase charging (7kW/30A per phase). I believe Renault de-tuned the charging rate with the increase in battery size from 22 to 41 kWh. (Something to do with too much heat build-up in the longer charge time perhaps?)

Also - there are no 43kW (60A/phase) AC chargers installed anywhere here as far as I know. For that size cable - you may as well go for broke and install a 50kW DC charger (... except, for a Zoe, that would be useless!)

Cheers
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