A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Wed, 19 Mar 2014, 14:51

looks like it could just a coincidence.

volt was behaving itself this morning.
plugged in & out 3x
first time, it green LED flashing indicated fully charged.
2nd n 3rd time, volt went into green steady charge mode.

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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Mon, 14 Apr 2014, 13:08

tripping is a blessing in disguise

tests the RCD and makes sure that it is working.
used Nissan 15A evseupgrade this morning.
had to reset @ meter box.

previous nights, Mitsubishi 10A EVSE had been charging successfully.
this is when the battery is depleted a bit.
Last edited by g4qber on Mon, 14 Apr 2014, 03:09, edited 1 time in total.

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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Sat, 17 May 2014, 20:13

got my 32A circontrol e-station wall box back.
now using it to charge the volt at 14A.

Went up to Yanchep Shopping Centre last Saturday.
Used the 15A to 10A adaptor from Jaycar, but since the volt draws 14+A unlike the imiev's 13-A, the adaptor's over current circuit trips after 5-10 mins
had to use the volt's 10A unit to charge.

wish that bollard would be upgraded to 15A
currently running on 20A circuit with 2x 10A sockets
I guess this will be for the future when 2 bays may be allocated for EVs.
Last edited by g4qber on Sat, 17 May 2014, 10:17, edited 1 time in total.
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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Thu, 11 Sep 2014, 00:47

Just met a guy last night at the Perth AEVA monthly meeting.
His hunch is that it is an earthing issue on the Volt. This was already found by e-station's testing in 2012.

The HVAC freezes and the indicator Freeze also sounds like Earth is stuffing up the computer.

This guy has found that corrosion has occurred on vehicles that have odd auto electrical issues.
He as come across many vehicles that are cured by terminating earth connections properly.
Last edited by g4qber on Wed, 10 Sep 2014, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Sun, 21 Dec 2014, 23:03

Volt trips Bmw Delphi clipper creek 8a evse
Also managed to get 10 amp Holden evse to fault today
Buzzing evse from city motors. Getting a replacement.
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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Tue, 24 Mar 2015, 14:45

Volt works ok with antiscabs emw 80 amp unit
Also didn't trip on his circuit when charging with Mitsubishi evse.
He has industrial rcd which may have greater spike tolerance.
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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by antiscab » Tue, 24 Mar 2015, 16:25

The RCD attached to that circuit is a 3-phase 32A MCB with a 30mA trip current

The EMW still has an 80A pilot signal, but it's on a 32A circuit (fed by 6mm2 TPS).

One day I'll get around to adjusting the pilot signal, but there's only one car at the moment that can draw more, and that's a Tesla. I don't know anyone with a Tesla :p

Matt
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2007 vectrix - 145'000km
1998 Prius - needs batt
1999 Prius - needs batt

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A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Mon, 31 Oct 2016, 13:46

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Peter C in Canberra
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 07:52

Is this RCD tripping issue an intermittent problem with all Volts in Australia or just some? Do some Volts always behave themselves perfectly on any EVSE?
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 11:53

Hi peter C

Personally I believe the fault is endemic on ALL volts.
GM doesn’t want to know about it, especially the GM volt forum whose solution is to put EVSE on non GFCI/RCD circuit.

There is an earth leakage issue.

On the Elektrobay bollards the check engine light shows up on the volt.

The Holden EVSE works 95% of the time.
E-station’s wallboxes also are good but they are not EVSEs

The 15 amp clipper Creek EVSE has a charge fault LED which generally stops the mains RCD from tripping. Note that Holden EVSE internals are made by Clipper Creek.

looks like GM/Chevy has not learnt from Volt mistakes
http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charg ... arger.html
http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6821
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sat, 12 May 2018, 11:17

Any solution yet?
I have had a Volt since Jan 2018. Most of the time it charges OK but it trips RCDs just often enough to be really annoying. It did it at a public charging location where the meter box was locked so I could not reset it. Fortunately I could use a second outlet that must have been on a different circuit and it did not trip. It tripped at a relative's house one time but not after resetting that day or on another day. It trips at home sometimes on its own dedicated circuit. It intermittently trips the RCD whether I use the EVSE from my iMiEV or the one from Holden.
I am wondering if it is worth getting a portable in-line RCD cord? My thought is to have that trip where it affects only the car and I can readily reset it to have another go at starting charging. With luck it might be slightly more sensitive than others so it goes first?
The car does not trip RCDs later if charging has started successfully.
Daihatsu charade conversion 2009-18, demo iMiEV 2013-present, used Holden Volt 2018-present, on the ACT's 100%-renewable-by-2020 electricity.

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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by rhills » Sat, 12 May 2018, 14:12

Hi Peter,
Probably not much help to you, but I use a Volt EVSE to charge my Mitsubishi Outlander when I am out. My experience has been that it will only trip out if used on 10A sockets. I use it reasonably regularly on a 15A socket and from memory it has never tripped out on one of those. Mine will also randomly trip the RCD on a 10A powerpoint.

HTH,
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Jun 2018
Total Petrol: 586.8L
ODO: 42885
Av Consumption: 1.37 L/100km

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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Sat, 12 May 2018, 20:30

Need class action against gm/Holden. To fix earth leakage issue.

Solution
Sell your volt ASAP and get a zoe, Kangoo ev or cpo Tesla
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sun, 13 May 2018, 14:26

rhills wrote:
Sat, 12 May 2018, 14:12
Hi Peter,
Probably not much help to you, but I use a Volt EVSE to charge my Mitsubishi Outlander when I am out. My experience has been that it will only trip out if used on 10A sockets. I use it reasonably regularly on a 15A socket and from memory it has never tripped out on one of those. Mine will also randomly trip the RCD on a 10A powerpoint.

HTH,
I use the Volt EVSE with my Mitsubishi iMiEV and it has never tripped. At home I use the iMIEV EVSE for both cars and the Volt trips just often enough to be annoying but the iMiEV never trips. My conclusion, like the one earlier in the thread, is that it is the Volt itself, not the Volt EVSE that is causing RCDs to trip itermittently.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by rhills » Sun, 13 May 2018, 15:40

Hi Peter,
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Sun, 13 May 2018, 14:26
My conclusion, like the one earlier in the thread, is that it is the Volt itself, not the Volt EVSE that is causing RCDs to trip itermittently.
My experience is obviously quite different from yours as we don't own a Volt. Maybe our EVSE (which I purchased from @g4qber with full disclosure about the issues he'd experienced with it) is faulty and it's a different problem from yours...
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
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Jul 2014 - Jun 2018
Total Petrol: 586.8L
ODO: 42885
Av Consumption: 1.37 L/100km

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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Mon, 14 May 2018, 20:53

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Sat, 12 May 2018, 11:17
Any solution yet? ... I am wondering if it is worth getting a portable in-line RCD cord? My thought is to have that trip where it affects only the car and I can readily reset it to have another go at starting charging. With luck it might be slightly more sensitive than others so it goes first?
The car does not trip RCDs later if charging has started successfully.
I got a 2m cord from Jaycar with an RCD device in-line and experimented today. Sometimes it tripped, sometimes it didn't but the house RCD always tripped when the cord tripped. Sadly, the cord tripping did not save a trip to the meter box to reset the RCD there.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Tue, 15 May 2018, 05:16

I have a solution.

Buy the smallest wallbox unit you can find.

Possibly
http://e-station.com.au/ehome/
Try it on condition that if it doesn’t work return it for refund.

And wire is up for luggable use.

This is what I did.
I used a 32 amp wallbox wired for 16 amps for the volt.

Jump to this page, 2nd comment from bottom.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3787&start=50

Was clunky but worked. My layperson’s Reason being that wallboxes don’t have rcds.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 15 May 2018, 06:39

g4qber wrote:
Tue, 15 May 2018, 05:16
I have a solution. Buy the smallest wallbox unit you can find...And wire is up for luggable use...My layperson’s Reason being that wallboxes don’t have rcds.
Thanks but I am not sure how that would help when the tripping RCD is upstream of the power point.
With or without an RCD in the EVSE, the main nuisance comes from the RCD back in the meter box tripping. This is especially annoying when it is inaccessible such as when I have been given permission to use a power point in a hotel carpark or I am using a power point in a park somewhere found via Plugshare. When visiting friends or relatives, having to fumble about in the dark with a meter box tends to undermine the demonstration that charging is a simple as plugging in a phone to charge and leaves them with the nuisance that other devices on the same circuit had the power cut.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Tue, 15 May 2018, 07:48

Completely agree with you.
Major annoyance and inconvenience, especially for next user.

Hence glad I got rid of revolting volt.

I’m not an electrician
But
The issue may be having 2 rcds in series.

Just my experience is that it has never tripped the master rcd when using the circontrol wall boxes wired for 16 amps.

I had 16 amp wallbox initially but volt wouldn’t negotiate 16 amp charge. Defauts to 10 amps.

Then went to card based 16 amp which negotiates 16 amp charge, but have to top up card after 99 charges.

Then went to 32 amp box wired for 16 as I only had volt and Imiev at time and would be future proofed for i3
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 15 May 2018, 08:57

g4qber wrote:
Tue, 15 May 2018, 07:48
Completely agree with you.
Major annoyance and inconvenience, especially for next user.
Hence glad I got rid of revolting volt.

I’m not an electrician
But The issue may be having 2 rcds in series...
I don't doubt your experience, but I find it hard to see how the absence of one RCD could prevent another RCD from tripping. I had hoped that the reverse would work, that I could put a portable RCD upstream of the EVSE and that might trip before another further upstream. It didn't work with the one I just tried but I suspect it still should be a valid idea if I can find an unusually fast portable RCD so it always goes first.

For me this issue is only a minor annoyance most of the time when I can charge at home. It is more of a problem when travelling. In other respects the Volt suits me very well and I am happy with it. In the absence of an extensive network of rapid chargers this car lets us have a vehicle for occasional long range use that does not use any petrol for local travel. It was affordable second-hand whereas EVs with long-range batteries were not yet affordable for us.

If the idea presented earlier in this thread is correct, that the problem is a filter that is fine on US centre-tapped 240V but not on AU 240V with one end referenced to ground, it should be fixable with a modification of that filter.

Does anyone know if the UK Vauxhall Ampera has the same problem?
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Tue, 15 May 2018, 16:11

Lol if you put another rcd in you’ll have 3 rcds in series.

The clipper creek 15 amp showed up with charge fault sometimes with my volt, but would not trip the main RCD.

The voltec GM/Holden 10A EVSE is made by clipper creek.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 15 May 2018, 16:18

g4qber wrote:
Tue, 15 May 2018, 16:11
Lol if you put another rcd in you’ll have 3 rcds in series.
The clipper creek 15 amp showed up with charge fault sometimes with my volt, but would not trip the main RCD.
The voltec GM/Holden 10A EVSE is made by clipper creek.
So, perhaps the clipper creek 15 amp EVSE has a more sensitive, faster RCD than the GM/Holden/ClipperCreek 10A EVSE, perhaps fast enough to always trip before others? If so, that could be the fix.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Tue, 15 May 2018, 16:33

Unfortunately no. The 15 amp clipper creek goes into fault mode and volt doesn’t charge.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 15 May 2018, 17:08

g4qber wrote:
Tue, 15 May 2018, 16:33
Unfortunately no. The 15 amp clipper creek goes into fault mode and volt doesn’t charge.
But if the RCD in the meter box does not trip, then the clipper creek EVSE can be turned off and disconnected and you have the chance to try again. Having to try a couple of times is much better than being locked out if the RCD in an inaccessible meter box trips on the first attempt.
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Re: A closer look at the volt RCD tripping issue

Post by g4qber » Tue, 15 May 2018, 19:50

Up to you to try clipper creek 15 amp
https://www.evolutionaustralia.com.au/p ... table-evse

Which may work 1/4 times and may still even trip the main rcd.

I Stand by my solution to use a wallbox if you want 100% reliability
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