i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

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i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Wed, 11 Apr 2018, 16:50

Our i-MiEV has just started displaying the high voltage (car with !) and low voltage (red battery) warning lights.
It also will not charge. If you plug in the standard charging cable the high voltage light comes on and after a couple of seconds it turns off and does not charge.

I suspect what I am going to do is take it to EV shop to look at.
Anyone else have other suggestions?

It appears to still drive OK, but the manual says not to drive it if the HV warning light is going.
EV shop is 25km away, and it is showing 50km RR, so it would be using a significant amount of battery to get there, so suspect I should play it safe and get it trucked there.

I have tried disconnecing and reconnecting the LV battery, which made no difference.
EVbatmon says Minvoltcell 3.96 and maxvoltcell 3.98 which doesn't sound too bad. Still reporting 73.75 battery condition, down from 73.96 a month ago.

Maybe I should have tried to get the wrecked one!

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Fri, 13 Apr 2018, 11:19

Is the 12V battery dead or dying?
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 13 Apr 2018, 12:44

The 12V battery appeared to be OK. Since it was about the only thing I was able to experiment with I removed and charged it and hooked it up again any. It was reading about 13V after charging and that didn't seem to make any difference.

The car runs absolutely normally, I drove it to Paceway Mitsubishi on Thursday. Waiting now for them to get around to looking at it. It is possible the fault is just with charging systems.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 21:39

Paceway say the onboard charger is faulty and needs to be replaced (about $4000). The charger was replaced about a year ago in a recall, so they are contacting Mitsubishi Australia to see if it can be done under warranty even though the car is out of warranty. Hope that doesn't take as long as I fear it might.

They also said the 12v battery needs replacing.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by zzcoopej » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 08:30

mikedufty wrote:
Tue, 17 Apr 2018, 21:39
Paceway say the onboard charger is faulty and needs to be replaced (about $4000). The charger was replaced about a year ago in a recall, so
Wow that sux, all the best with that. Hope you can persuade them to replace under warranty, remember there are consumer warranty conditions around "expected life" that trump the manufacturer's warranty.
Either way, it would be worth asking to keep the old charger. I'm sure some AEVA member would be keen to find out what is going wrong with them, surely there is just a low cost component inside that is failing?
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 09:01

Yes, I wish I thought to ask for the old charger when they did the recall. Never had any problems with that one.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by antiscab » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 09:08

For $4k I would be tempted to get an after market charger. For that much you could buy a setec chademo unit and have enough left over for a Tc charger
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 12:11

Yeah, first option is to see if MMAL will replace it free of charge.
Second is to pull out the 'diamond advantage used car warranty' certificate they gave me with the car, which says the warranty is extended to 2020.
Third would be to look at whether someone can repair or replace it for less than $4000.
Fourth would probably be to see if anyone wants to buy the car as a project, not sure I would actually pay $4000 to fix it.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by bladecar » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 14:14

mikeduffy suggested that paying $4000 might be too high a price to continue using an imiev.

What comes to mind is whether imiev chargers are robust, intentionally or unintentionally. It would be most stressing to think that they are a component meant to keep profits coming in. They do seem to be a component that has difficulty handling the energy it has to deal with. The Blade Electron charger is definitely not up to the task that an owner would desire. Its life span is very short, from experience.

As an aside, one day, my imiev showed no dash info when I turned on the key. I had been wanting to run down to 2 bars or less in order to have the battery pack balance but had done so over quite a few days because, like putting 10 cent pieces in an old pokie machine, just when you get down to the last 2 cents and want to get out of the joint, the machine give you another 10, and so on. Regen had been getting in the way and slowing down the rate of discharge. Having owned a Blade Electron which has very short 12V battery life, the thought quickly occured to me that this might be low 12V battery condition, so I simply charged the car and it behaved without fault from that point on.

So I wonder is this a problem with lower-cost ev's or is it a general condition that the 12V battery set-up is a fragile aspect of the ev system. The Electron really needed an independent charging plug for the 12V battery. If only the 12V battery could be topped up, as required, by the main battery.

So back to the original point, I don't understand people in the EV arena devaluing the equipment that they supposedly desire to use, from a pollution point of view. If you had $4000 dollars and went out to buy any old heap of shale, you would get a very-high-maintenance polluter. It's crazy to think that you would dump an imiev because it needed a $4000 dollar repair when you already own the car UNLESS in fact, the charger is a periodic fault. If the people here are predominantly here because they are tightwads, then I have no appreciation of those people. I have noted numerous ideas from various aeva participants to believe that economy is the main reason that drives them and it has nothing to do with higher ideals. Greg

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 14:47

If our iMiEV required a $4000 repair, I'd be a bit annoyed but I would recognise that spending $4000 would get me back to having a well-put-together EV with no other known problem. That is not an outcome I could get for this price any other way.
BTW "If only the 12V battery could be topped up, as required, by the main battery." Isn't that what every electric car does? My two commercial EVs do this as did my conversion. Didn't the Blade have a DC-DC converter to provide 12V with the 12V battery across the converter output just providing backup?
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 16:08

Just called again and this time they mentioned DC-DC charger, which suggests it might be the DC-DC converter, hence the comments about 12v battery, though I don't know why that would stop the main battery from charging. The guy I talked to didn't have much idea.
My wife wants a more anonymous car anyway, which is why a $4000 charge would have me considering whether it is better to fix or sell as a project.
There is not much alternative if you want an EV in that price range. Even if you think it is worth $10,000, that plus $4000 is $14,000 which won't get any other EV besides a conversion.
I suspect conversions are likely to be less reliable, but more repairable.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 16:24

$14,000 is probably about the going price for an iMiEV these days.
For a more anonymous car, there are some Holden Volts going at cheap prices these days and the Hyundai Ionique looks pretty good for a new EV.
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by bladecar » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 21:55

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 14:47
If our iMiEV required a $4000 repair, I'd be a bit annoyed but I would recognise that spending $4000 would get me back to having a well-put-together EV with no other known problem. That is not an outcome I could get for this price any other way.
BTW "If only the 12V battery could be topped up, as required, by the main battery." Isn't that what every electric car does? My two commercial EVs do this as did my conversion. Didn't the Blade have a DC-DC converter to provide 12V with the 12V battery across the converter output just providing backup?
Ok, I'm unclear as usual.
This is what I'm trying to say: When you charge an Electron or an imiev, I presume that the 12V battery is charged at the same time as, and independently of, the traction battery. The ancillaries like A/C, radio, lights etc run off the 12V battery so my impression is that you can have the situation where 12V battery voltage condition has a shorter time span to non-responsive than the the traction battery does, particularly if you do numerous short drives, sometimes in rain (where you run the wipers, the Ac etc, but do not charge the vehicle. So say you charge these ev's for an hour every couple of days while driving short distances. This charges the 12V battery while only giving the traction battery say, a 6th of a charge.
Anyway, that is my experience based on the Electron. That is an extreme case of the 12V battery having a much shorter endurance than the traction battery though others would know what the unusal demand on the 12V battery was when not in use.

Ok, sorry, I can understand making a decision to change to a different vehicle based on it being so "unusual" in shape, as we know, and wanting to not stand out. Pity Mitsubishi doesn't understand our psychie. Apparently the imiev and its ancestor are perfect for very narrow Japanese streets. They're good for my city's streets which are often one lane with ridiculous parking on both sides of the street or building sites extending out into the roadway for days on end. Greg

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 23:32

I believe the i-MiEV charges the 12v from the traction battery whenever it is being driven.
I think that Teslas periodically charge the 12v from the traction battery even when turned off, which would be nice to avoid the situation you can get with the i-Miev, when after a holiday you come back to a car with a nearly fully charged traction battery, which you can't use becasue the little 12v battery has gone flat.

The size of the i-Miev is good for us, she doesn't like the fact it is the only one around so she is likely to be recognised whenever she drives by. There are a few similar ones in Perth, but rarely in the same suburb. Having said that, I did actually see another the same colour at the traffic lights near my house once while cycling, and started to ride over to say hello before realising it was someone else inside.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 06:43

I think the most common thing among electric cars is to charge the 12V via a DC-DC converter from the traction battery. Some do that all the time. Others, only while driving. A weak 12V battery can cause all sorts of strange problems in various models.
Some conversions don't have a DC-DC converter between the 12V battery and the traction battery. Instead they have just a plain 12V battery charger and the 12V battery is charged from the mains independently of the traction battery whenever the car is plugged in. In that setup, the 12V battery has to have enough capacity to cover as much 12V consumption as you could possibly use while driving from full to empty on the traction battery - IE with radio blaring, headlights on high beam, windscreen wipers running, rear window demister on etc.
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by bladecar » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 09:46

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 14:47
If our iMiEV required a $4000 repair, I'd be a bit annoyed but I would recognise that spending $4000 would get me back to having a well-put-together EV with no other known problem. That is not an outcome I could get for this price any other way.
BTW "If only the 12V battery could be topped up, as required, by the main battery." Isn't that what every electric car does? My two commercial EVs do this as did my conversion. Didn't the Blade have a DC-DC converter to provide 12V with the 12V battery across the converter output just providing backup?
Yes, the Electron has a DC-DC converter but I don't know about the rest of what you are saying. All I know is that the 12V battery had an isolating switch over the 12V battery which you should turn off if left for a few days, but a few days seemed like maybe one day, and I don't know what was using the power. Then, on occasion, it stopped driving on a wet day (this particular day) while using wipers, fan, A/C or heater, don't remember. Who knows what the status of the 12V was when I went to use it that day, but there's no way it was being supported in excess of demands while driving. Thanks for the other information.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by antiscab » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 14:03

Removing the little black box on the 12v battery is usually the first thing I do with blade electrons. Every car including the blade charges the 12v battery both while driving, and while the car is charging.

A 3.3kw charger should be under $1000 new. If Mitsubishi aren't helpful, I'd suggest putting in a 6.6kw Tc charger, or getting an original charger from a wreck.

Out of curiosity, if you were to sell it, how much for? I'm local and would be interested in buying it
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 17:48

My wife is determined to sell it whether it is fixed or not. I'm hoping to change her mind, once it is fixed, as I like it.
I'm not sure if replacing the charger would be enough, there may be something more to convincing the i-Miev's computer that the charger is good and allowing it to charge.
It also could be the dc-dc converter, not the charger. Tried to get more info today but Paceway wouldn't even pick up the phone.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by reecho » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 20:14

The DC/DC converter and the AC charger is one unit in the I-Miev...

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by antiscab » Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 23:04

That makes things harder. A non original charger can be used via the chademo port. Car needs to be in drive though. It's somewhat of a hack, though it was bound to happen at some point
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sat, 21 Apr 2018, 07:42

reecho wrote:
Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 20:14
The DC/DC converter and the AC charger is one unit in the I-Miev...
That explains a high cost. Considering that it is a specialist part that the manufacturer has had to keep a stock of, $4000 does not seem so disproportionate to other moderately complex car parts sourced from original manufacturers. Ideally, there would have been so many iMiEVs around that you would be able to get the part from a wrecker for half that price.
If, as suggested above, the part was replaced only a year ago, I think you should be able to bargain down to a lower price or get it supplied for free.
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Johny » Sat, 21 Apr 2018, 10:09

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Sat, 21 Apr 2018, 07:42
reecho wrote:
Fri, 20 Apr 2018, 20:14
The DC/DC converter and the AC charger is one unit in the I-Miev...
That explains a high cost. Considering that it is a specialist part that the manufacturer has had to keep a stock of, $4000 does not seem so disproportionate to other moderately complex car parts sourced from original manufacturers. Ideally, there would have been so many iMiEVs around that you would be able to get the part from a wrecker for half that price.
If, as suggested above, the part was replaced only a year ago, I think you should be able to bargain down to a lower price or get it supplied for free.
I'd also widen your search (for a second hand iMiev charger) to worldwide. Shipping won't seem so expensive if you can get one for less than half the price.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 16:11

I managed to get some more details out of Paceway.
DTC
P0A09 DCDC Converter fail
P1A12 BC Abnormal Stop
Onboard charger at fault
Cooling system needs to be bled.
12v battery needs replacing.

Currently they are just waiting for a response from Mitsubishi Australia on Warranty Cover, estimated 10 days expected for a response, must be about 8 days already.

My wife has just bought a Holden spark (unfortunately not the EV version, which is only available in California).
So the i-Miev will probably be for sale once fixed.

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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by majorphill » Thu, 03 May 2018, 22:57

Mike
Paceway recently replaced my charger (for the second time). It made no difference to my car as it turns out there was nothing wrong with the charger.
They may still have that one in their parts box. It may be worth an ask.
It's going on eight months for mine with no progress.
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Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 04 May 2018, 11:34

Is yours completely out of action? Sounds like buying a new car while waiting might have actually been a sensible idea.

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