Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 15:58

I think the first step will be to get your hands on an old iMiEV battery and pull it apart. Take your time and work out how many cells can be made to fit, without complicating the BMS placement and wiring. Then it should be a quick replacement job.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 09:22

I've just taken some screenshots of the cells for reference

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Approx $140aud

Image
Approx $190aud

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 09:28

While I don't own an imiev, did we end up with an approximate time frame/ quantity for an order because I'm fast approaching a point where I'd like to have about 40x 135ah cells in my possession and I'd like to hijack part of a bulk order.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 10:14

Probably ready to place an order at the end of the month. 88 of the 100 Ah cells for the iMiEV for certain.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mikedufty » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 11:30

Looks like I shouldn't try to sell my i-MiEV to Chris for Kat's "reliable car" as it would end up in pieces in the garage before long.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by brendon_m » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 12:04

Isn't that how you make a car reliable, take it apart and modify it as much as possible, then leave it in pieces for a while and do a rush/last minute reassembly to make it mobile because you're about to move house or something.
And the project is never fully finished but it is finished "enough". Just don't worry about that bit... And that bit... Oh, and don't look at that either....

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by jonescg » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 12:24

mikedufty wrote:
Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 11:30
Looks like I shouldn't try to sell my i-MiEV to Chris for Kat's "reliable car" as it would end up in pieces in the garage before long.
In that instance the CRX would be in pieces before the iMiEV...
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by praxidice » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 04:52

What is the likelihood that the computer will recognize these batteries ?

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by praxidice » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 05:02

I'd love to fit a bigger capacity battery to my Minicab however given that the vehicle has only covered a few thousand kilometers from new, I'm not inclined to mess with it until the upgrade has been proven successful. There doesn't appear to be any history of replacement non-genuine batteries unless I've missed the information.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 05:05

It really depends on the implementation detail of the BMS. If it's just based on voltage, it should just think the charge and discharge rates are lower.
However the imiev BMS has a capacity estimation, so it is counting coulombs/current as well. It may throw an error if it thinks it's not reading the energy flow correctly, or it might just estimate a higher capacity. It could also overflow a memory register if the measurement ends up to large for the space allocated (I.e. if it overflows a byte, or octet).

I don't really know how to find out aside from putting new batteries in and seeing what happens.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 26 Oct 2018, 09:04

Someone did apparently get an i-MiEV running with two stock batteries at once - might actually be practical in a Minicab.
I think they had two stock BMS installed as well, so may not offer much insight as to how it would react to bigger cells.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=27595#p27595

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by praxidice » Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 08:52

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet hacked the onboard computer to convince it to recognize a non-standard battery. Mitsubishi appears to have a good handle on VIN locking and there hasn't been any real progress on overcoming the obstacle. I would contribute toward the costs of a hacker if others do likewise but I'm not in a position to pay all costs myself. From a legal perspective. compelling iMiEV owners to purchase Mitsubishi supplied batteries 'probably' constitutes a restrictive trade practice (according to my legal people) however a test case would be needed to pin this down and I don't relish the costs of mounting a battle against a multinational company. Personally I'm quite happy with my Minicab and would gladly upgrade the battery, but as noted above, I don't have sufficient knowledge of hacking to do the job myself so unless someone convinced me there is a better option, I'm planning on switching to a 40kwh eNV200 when they start appearing in japanese auctions.

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by mark_hetho » Mon, 12 Nov 2018, 19:00

On the video at https://youtu.be/VsYd4NXaMpo they replace a single cell, with what looks like a drop in replacement.

In the comments they suggest some suppliers of cells: 65ah - https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32514797426.html

and 100ah - https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32841599932.html

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 09:48

The linked aliexpress 100Ah cell is quite close to the LEV50 cell dimensions. 10mm taller but otherwise within a few mm. Questions remain whether 1) such cells are of decent quality available from a reputable seller at a reasonable price and 2) whether the car's battery management can learn to recognise the increased capacity. Doubling from 50Ah to 100Ah would be a nice bonus when it comes time to replace the LEV50s.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 09:54

praxidice wrote:
Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 08:52
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet hacked the onboard computer to convince it to recognize a non-standard battery. Mitsubishi appears to have a good handle on VIN locking and there hasn't been any real progress on overcoming the obstacle...
If drop-in replacement cells could be found, I don't know how the computer would recognise the battery as anything other than the original battery if all the associated electronics were retained. The VIN part identification presumably is not embedded inside the cells but resides in attached boards. The computer might be surprised when the capacity seems to suddenly jump up after a slow decline. I assume it would count amp-hours in and out before reaching endpoint voltages. I would hope that it would simply recalibrate through a few charging cycles and show the increased range.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 17:55

My 2010 iMiEV has suffered a bit this last winter. Struggling to get more than 90 km.
I'm waiting (hoping) for some smart chap to confirm in real life experience, that cell replacement is practical.
If the 100 Ah cells fit, that would be a real bonus, if they degrade to half in a few years, it would be still as good as a new iMiEV and out live the rest of the machine.
Edit:
I'm still struggling with quoting part only of a post I wish to reply to. It is either all or nothing, maybe I'm too old to learn.......
Last edited by nuggetgalore on Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 18:03, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 17:57

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 09:54
praxidice wrote:
Tue, 06 Nov 2018, 08:52
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet hacked the onboard computer to convince it to recognize a non-standard battery. Mitsubishi appears to have a good handle on VIN locking and there hasn't been any real progress on overcoming the obstacle...
If drop-in replacement cells could be found, I don't know how the computer would recognise the battery as anything other than the original battery if all the associated electronics were retained. The VIN part identification presumably is not embedded inside the cells but resides in attached boards. The computer might be surprised when the capacity seems to suddenly jump up after a slow decline. I assume it would count amp-hours in and out before reaching endpoint voltages. I would hope that it would simply recalibrate through a few charging cycles and show the increased range.
My 2010 iMiEV has suffered a bit this last winter. Struggling to get more than 90 km.
I'm waiting (hoping) for some smart chap to confirm in real life experience, that cell replacement is practical.
If the 100 Ah cells fit, that would be a real bonus, if they degrade to half in a few years, it would be still as good as a new iMiEV and out live the rest of the machine.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 18:34

nuggetgalore wrote:
Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 17:55
My 2010 iMiEV has suffered a bit this last winter. Struggling to get more than 90 km.
...
I'm still struggling with quoting part only of a post I wish to reply to. It is either all or nothing, maybe I'm too old to learn.......
My 2012 iMiEV only ever did around 100km when new to us 5 years ago and now typically in the 90s.
When you click the quote button you get the whole post quoted but then you can delete some of it as I did above. You just have to leave the beginning and ending bits between the square brackets alone.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 19:19

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Tue, 13 Nov 2018, 18:34

My 2012 iMiEV only ever did around 100km when new to us 5 years ago and now typically in the 90s.
When you click the quote button you get the whole post quoted but then you can delete some of it as I did above. You just have to leave the beginning and ending bits between the square brackets alone.
Thanks
Yesterday had a ride in a 2012 that just clicked over to 80'000 km.
Charged full to 120 RR and will do that too ,as the km driven reduces the RR by same amount.
Where as mine on full charge might say 100 but after an 80 km drive RR is down to ~10 with corresponding fuel gauge near empty.
5 Years ago a 2012 should have done better than 100, sorry to hear that .
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 07:00

nuggetgalore wrote:
Wed, 14 Nov 2018, 19:19
5 Years ago a 2012 should have done better than 100, sorry to hear that .
When it was first new to us as dealer ex-demo with over 20k on the clock, we did sometimes get around 110km as the RR estimate. We might have done better in a different area. Most of our local roads are 80-90kph limits and hilly. For about 9 years we drove a converted car and only ever had a theoretic range of about 70km and in practice would get nervous over 55km. So, even though our iMiEV now has only 75% of its original 16kWh battery capacity, we still have ample range (90+km) for local driving and rarely get anywhere near empty. Our other car is a Holden Volt with 55-75km of battery range but with petrol back up for another 600km. In practice, we never exceed the battery range in either car for all our local driving and only use petrol on a longer trip out of town.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 11:36

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 07:00
. In practice, we never exceed the battery range in either car for all our local driving and only use petrol on a longer trip out of town.
Horses for courses.
That is why I am still very happy with mine.
The long trips we do are towing a small van anyway,so no chance of using an EV.
But I am still very much interested in how someone fares with exchanging the LEV50s with something with higher capacity (or even the same capacity but aftermarket cells).
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by g4qber » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 17:16

134km Gom when travelling at 60-80kmh
Warm weather
Else 90km gom at 100kmh
1 year new batt from Mitsubishi
Almost 40k kms since November 2017
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:roll: 2011 i-MiEV - 159 k kms Nov 2018

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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by nuggetgalore » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 18:50

g4qber wrote:
Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 17:16
134km Gom when travelling at 60-80kmh
Warm weather
Else 90km gom at 100kmh
1 year new batt from Mitsubishi
Almost 40k kms since November 2017
That's a lot of km in a year!
I guess your signature should read
"2011 i-MiEV - 158k kms Nov 2018" if you did 40k in the last 12 months.
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Re: Aftermarket iMiEV battery upgrade project

Post by g4qber » Thu, 15 Nov 2018, 19:25

You’re correct. Changing now
:roll: 2011 i-MiEV - 159 k kms Nov 2018

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