2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

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doug
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2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 11:07

Hi,
I am looking for information to prepare my case for Battery replacement under warranty.

Today, we left home with 72Kms showing on the 'gauge', about normal for our car now. Evans head (using our short cut) is about 32 Kms to the surf club. We arrived with more than 1/2 charge left. However, we did not get home. In fact the vehicle can out of charge on a hill in an extremely dangerous spot.

Unfortunately, my OBD2 adaptor has failed (new one ordered), so I cannot check which cells are low. The car is currently parked at a neighbour's house on charge.

I have been complaining about the state of this battery for some time. I did expect battery degredation, but no-where near this fast. I know there have been some issues with 2012 batteries, & I think this could be one. My pack is the 'A' version, so less reliable than the ones fitted after the middle of 2012.

My most recent conversation with Mitsub h/o was interesting, with the rep saying my problems might be due to the lack of use in the 2 years the car was a 'demo' with a dealer. (I purchased the car with a new car warranty: it had never been registered before, & only had low Kms.)

I have all sorts of issues with this car because it has had MCU issues under warranty (where the vehicle just stopped). It has been transported twice to the Gold Coast because the local dealer (Lismore, NSW) cannot maintain the vehicle. It will go again for the air bag replacement.

I need to get the facts because the battery warranty runs out towards mid-year.

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 14:30

Did you read philipowen's thread viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5243
Sounds like very similar issues to yours but probably not much help as Phil decided he'd rather pay for a new battery himself than wait for Mitsubishi to decide what to do about it. He also had the MCU failure and apparently Mitsubishi thought the battery failure might be related to that.

It is going well with the new battery now.

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by g4qber » Fri, 29 Dec 2017, 17:16

Nissan aus have come to the party
http://ozleaf.proboards.com/thread/978/ ... ed-dealers

With Lesmando24 and feng

Perhaps need to go to nissan/Renault since they own 1/3 Of Mitsubishi
:roll: 2011 i-MiEV - 147 kms August 2018

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by antiscab » Sat, 30 Dec 2017, 13:13

Out of curiosity, what's the build date on your imiev? How many km has it done?
Matt
2011 Blade Electron mk6
2007 vectrix - 145'000km
1998 Prius - needs batt
1999 Prius - needs batt

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Sun, 31 Dec 2017, 05:52

Hi,
the build date (if the date on the door pillar is correct) is 01/13. It now has just over 70000 Kms. It has the 'A' battery pack fitted (which I think is the earlier batteries). The pack number is visible on the top of the pack looking in from the boot with the lid lifted. It is hard to clean the dirt off the label!

This car has been backwards & forwards to Mitsubishi in Southport for a recurring 'failed to proceed'. Unfortunately, I have never been able to find out exactly what was replaced. I have been lucky in that Mitsubishi has transported my car to Southport, & returned it. The one time I had to bring it back myself, it was 2 days driving, overnighting at a friends place.
Recently, I had the car at Quayside Mitsub Lismore, with the charger in the car. They apparently did a battery test but did not even ue the charger. I delivered the car deliberately low on charge: I had to charge it in Lismore before I cold drive it home!: Quayside are pretty useless, & really do not want to know. They even want the car to go to Southport to have the air bag changed.
This last trip to Quayside has been an absolute fiasco, with apparently (without my knowledge) the job being signed off on 1 Dec, but I was still inquiring about the status weeks after that with no information given! My expectation was that the car would be sorted, & the air bag changed. We just received the 2nd air bag letter, which is worrying because the talk to the Mitsub h/o made no mention of the urgency to get the air bag sorted.

I really feel there is still an issue in the electronics that has been related to the battery issue. I am not sure if all the relevant software upgrades have been performed, or what has been done to my car. I just want it fixed properly before the warranty runs out.
I would have liked an Outlander PHEV, but after this experience with Mitsub, I am not sure I would ever buy another car off them!

Comparing our issues with overseas, in the states, the packs are changed if the range is below 20% loss. THere is a range of Vins (just outside mine) where the packs were replaced due to battery failure that was caused by battery mis-handling during manufacture. (apparently dropped cells).

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Wed, 03 Jan 2018, 15:57

I received my new OBDLink LX adaptor, so was able to read the battery state. It appears cells 11, 19, 21, 64 & 72 are 0.015 lower than most of the other batteries.

regards, Doug

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by antiscab » Wed, 03 Jan 2018, 23:36

You'll need to take two readings, one where the car is fully charged. The other when the car stops. That will expose which cells are causing problems, and also whether the issue is balancing related
Matt
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Tue, 09 Jan 2018, 13:24

Hi,
the car has gone to Ferry Rd Mitsub for the Air-bag recall & yet another battery check. I am fairly sure cell 19 is the weakest. I did not have time to do a full cycle on the batteries with my new OBD2 interface.
Anyway, if Mitsub does not agree to change the batteries, it is off to Fair Trading! I really have no other option. I found that there has been a recall overseas for VIN #s very close to our car, & also for a car that is basically the same, the US owners get a far stronger warranty. This could actually work against Mitsub Aust, because by not defining battery warranty, they might have to fight the 'fit for purpose' implied warranty under Australian consumer law.
I found this document:
'Mitsubishi Plagued By Faults, Recalls Japanese Plug-in Cars' that refers to cars produced around our VIN. Interesting that article talks about mis-handled batteries during manufacture.
I have also had some interesting mis-information from Customer care at Mitsub head office, including they are not responsible for the time the car was in the hands of the dealer! If this is the case, I will need to get the dealer in for the Fair-trading case.

I am surprised that the Mitsub dealer on the North Coast, NSW (Quayside) seems to have no intention of training for even the PHEVs. They even refused to change the air-bag!

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Tue, 16 Jan 2018, 18:31

Hi,
Mitsub has looked at the car & this is their response:

Subject: Mitsubishi IMiev VIN -

Further to our email below, we confirm that the additional diagnostic testing on the battery has now been completed with the results deemed normal with no fault found. Please be assured that the dealers findings have been confirmed by Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd's (MMAL's) Technical Support Group.

As previously advised, the battery will experience deterioration as the vehicle ages.

Southport Mitsubishi are currently arranging transport of your vehicle back to Lismore and once this has been confirmed, we will advise you in the first instance.

Kind regards,


Has anybody ever taken a Manufacturer to Fair Trading? I will talk to them tomorrow about how to go about it. The goods supplied are not 'fit for purpose' when the range is now much less than 75% of the range when new.

I have asked for the full testing results so I can get an independent expert to assess the data. (I have never been given any data from the car even though I have asked.)
I did receive some basic information from MMAL, but it was only the basic information: no data.

I am an extremely unhappy Mitsubishi customer.

regards, Doug

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by zzcoopej » Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 08:07

doug wrote:
Tue, 16 Jan 2018, 18:31
Has anybody ever taken a Manufacturer to Fair Trading? I will talk to them tomorrow about how to go about it. The goods supplied are not 'fit for purpose' when the range is now much less than 75% of the range when new.

I have asked for the full testing results so I can get an independent expert to assess the data. (I have never been given any data from the car even though I have asked.)
I did receive some basic information from MMAL, but it was only the basic information: no data.
I know of 3 iMiEV owners in Australia who have had their traction battery replaced. One owner in NSW was done free of cost, another at partial cost, and the 3rd at full cost, both of the latter were in Western Australia. I think there is a 4th that I forwarded details of the NSW owner to help them in their claim. If you get stuck, let me know by PM and I'll contact the NSW owner again and see if he's willing to help you out with your claim.
For the PHEV, Mitsubishi had on their website that they expected the capacity to be no less than 80% after 5 years, 100K km so your 75% after 5 years and only 70K km is under, however not by much.

Do you check your tyre pressure regularly? iMiEV tyres are notorious for slowly deflating. Also, do you charge via a timer or off-peak circuit? If so, ensure the iMiEV has sufficient time to balance when you have run it down to under 2bars on the fuel gauge (which is the trigger for cell balancing). There was a bulletin issued to US iMiEV owners to run to less than 2 bars at least once a year to trigger balancing, however considering the PHEV seems to balance after every recharge, more than annually triggering balancing in the iMiEV seems sensible to me? Our natural usage results in triggering balancing I would guess monthly.

Here is my iMiEV data obtained via OBD from my EvBatMon Android & iPhone App -
Date            Odometer	Capacity (nom. 330V)  
2015-11-27	36000km		36.8Ah	12.1kWh
2017-10-15	65345km		34.1Ah	11.3kWh
(full EvBatMon data in another thread)

If a brand new battery is assumed to be 48Ah (the manufacturer says 50Ah however that is in the factory) then the PMC (Percentage of Manufacturer's Capacity, or SOH) of my battery at 34.1Ah is 71% for my 2010 iMiEV at 65Kkm, again not too far from yours.
We are currently getting around 86km real range with 2-3 passengers and no A/c use. We run the tyres around 36psi.
We have not had any issues running down to around 5km RR recently. We have hit turtle about a year ago, but not recently.
2010 iMiEV
2015 PHEV Aspire
Battery App EvBatMon for PHEV & iMiEV iOS(iPhone,iPad)& Android
www.EvPositive.com

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by nuggetgalore » Thu, 25 Jan 2018, 06:38

zzcoopej wrote:
Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 08:07
doug wrote:
Tue, 16 Jan 2018, 18:31

facturer says 50Ah however that is in the factory) then the PMC (Percentage of Manufacturer's Capacity, or SOH) of my battery at 34.1Ah is 71% for my 2010 iMiEV at 65Kkm, again not too far from yours.
We are currently getting around 86km real range with 2-3 passengers and no A/c use. We run the tyres around 36psi.
We have not had any issues running down to around 5km RR recently. We have hit turtle about a year ago, but not recently.
I ran my iMiEV 2010 battery down to turtle yesterday on purpose .
RR was about 4km when the turtle sign came up (never seen it before). SoC about 12%.
I kept cruising around the block including AC until RR down to_ _ _ _ and SoC 9%. Had radio and AC running, AC indicator light still on but don't know if actually still running the compressor.
Charged overnight to 100% (RR 121km ! never seen higher than 112 previously) and it took 13.04 kWh from the power point in just under 5 hours, the charge was connected 7 hours, the last 0.3 kWh (balance ? ) took about 20 minutes .
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 26 Jan 2018, 18:44

How many km did you get to the ___ RR? Mine shut down completely with no turtle and 7km RR left, which is not very confidence inspiring, but I think I may have confused it with a long slow downhill run.

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by nuggetgalore » Fri, 26 Jan 2018, 19:46

mikedufty wrote:
Fri, 26 Jan 2018, 18:44
How many km did you get to the ___ RR? Mine shut down completely with no turtle and 7km RR left, which is not very confidence inspiring, but I think I may have confused it with a long slow downhill run.
RR was about 4 km at turtle but I guess after 3 it showed ____RR. I had the AC on and I rode up a small hill, the CaniOn showed I still had some juice in the tank.Not far from home so I had no fear to be stranded. Not sure I can trust the CaniOn, the battery cell volts do not tally, in a few days I hope to get the EV+VE to work to double check.

PS.: in my earlier post I said after full charge RR was 122, true but it came down quicker than normal after the first 5-10 km.
Also I noticed that if the initial RR is very high, not using the car for a few hours the RR goes down more than when the full charge shows fewer km.
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by mikedufty » Sun, 28 Jan 2018, 11:17

I was trying to ask what your total distance was from the previous full charge to empty, assuming you did have it fully charged before that run.

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by nuggetgalore » Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 06:29

mikedufty wrote:
Sun, 28 Jan 2018, 11:17
I was trying to ask what your total distance was from the previous full charge to empty, assuming you did have it fully charged before that run.
First I have to clarify that the RR km are always more than what the real life km are.

The (full) charge I ran down to turtle was 102 RR . Over the next three days I drove 93 km to turtle ,including the last 10 with the AC on (to drain the batt more).
Please note: as a rule I drive very conservative, the way my mates with their 2012 models drive I would not get that far!

The 122 RR dropped to 120 after a day before I drove the car. Next trips were 54 km and the SoC 40.5% (see below) and the following full charge took the RR to 105 .

I now have the EVpositive app installed and that shows my battery is supposedly down to 72.08 % with 34.6 Ah capacity left. Cell volts appear to be ok
at 40.5 % SoC max V 3.88 min V3.87. At 97 % SoC max V cell 4.08 versus min V cell 4.04

I have checked the capacity of three 2012 iMiEVs. If somebody is interested I can post the results.
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by mikedufty » Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 12:30

I'm interested. Should probably go in the imiev range thread.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=3589&start=225

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Mon, 19 Mar 2018, 16:02

Hi,
we are intending to replace our battery. I will be trying to keep my old battery (I intend to fit the battery myself, then have the local dealer update the s/w. If I let Mitsubishi do the job, the car would need to be transported to Ferry Rd, Southport, a distance of ~150Kms. Local dealer not interested.
Does anyone know the part # of the parts required? I think there is the pack & an upgrade kit for my 2011 build Imiev. Has anyone priced a pack lately? (Want to make sure I am not ripped off).

On another matter, anyone intending going to Inverell for the EV meet?

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 09:01

Chris is keen to build a double range pack for someone. He is a lot further than Southport though.

viewtopic.php?p=66753#p66753

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by jonescg » Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 09:05

Yeah I'm keen to take a battery (preferably one which lives outside of a vehicle) and stuff more cells in it. It won't be cheap, but then 24 kWh batteries are never cheap.
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 15:37

Went to get a quote on the battery today. Apparently, the local dealer cannot supply EV parts: he must order from an 'approved' dealer, then I pay freight from that dealer: Restrictive trade practise??

Anyway, apparently there is 2 style of covers (65974 plug) either old style oblong, or new round. The diagram seems to have these in the bottom of the battery pack: anyone know about them?

I want to fit my own pack. I respect 300v dc, but OI have worked on defibs, & many years ago on a Lightning generator (That was a frightning machine! Used for testing repeaters at Alcatel)

Anyone know of a source for HV gloves?

regards, Doug

ps:there might be a spare battery tray etc avail soon. I want to use the old batts in my home (but poss not all).

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by jonescg » Tue, 20 Mar 2018, 16:30

Sounds good - but we'll need all of the BMS circuitry to remain in place. It would probably lost its sh1t if we pulled that stuff off.
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by Bryce » Wed, 21 Mar 2018, 17:25

For HV gloves, see 'electrical factory outlet' website and look under 'safety products' tab.
Cheers Bryce
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by doug » Mon, 26 Mar 2018, 07:31

Thanks all for the info. It ended up that MMAL refused to sell me the battery to self-install. (Actually, they have given me an ex-gratia deal of a discount off the battery pack. It was conditional on my having the pack installed by a certified dealer.
This also brings a word of caution: my first quote from Von-bibra in Southport was $16K! Iexplained to them that I had 2 quotes for $13200 approx, & they matched the quote. Definitely pays to shop around! (Never mind Mr Von-Bibra possibly being a close relative to Ned Kelly....)
I will drive the car to Southport (2 charges to get there: Maca castle, & a friend in Murwillumbah), then return to Murwillumbah after battery fitted, then home next day. The car carrier wanted $350 to carry the car: too much!

So, I have paid my share of the battery cost. Now wait for availability.

Anyway, let you know how it goes.

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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by jonescg » Mon, 26 Mar 2018, 08:40

Hopefully they let you keep the old pack...
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Re: 2012 Imiev 70K kms, battery u/s.

Post by antiscab » Mon, 26 Mar 2018, 10:27

For sure, send the old battery over to WA for reverse engineering
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