Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

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rhills
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Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by rhills » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 15:39

Was just discussing with my brother @crustovich whether extra cells + bits like these could be made into a useful range-extender for the Mitsu Outlander PHEV. Unfortunately neither of us knows enough about it to work out if it would be a worthwhile project.

Anyone care to comment?

In a perfect world, you'd configure the cells into a pack that fitted neatly in the boot (eg as a new floor?), could be plugged separately into their own charge source. They'd have some sort of direct DC connection, preferably inside the car, perhaps a retro-fitted CHAdeMO to replace the one sadly left off the first PHEVs that Mitsubishi brought in to Oz. Another thread discussed this, but sadly wandered off topic before any definitive solution (or statement that it was impossible/uneconomic) was arrived at :?

Like my brother, I regularly experience situations where the PHEV's 40-50km range on batteries is not quite enough and it would be great to be able to double this, or even just extend it by 50% (while we wait for the next generation of longer range EVs to eventually creep in to Oz!).
Rob Hills
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2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Jun 2018
Total Petrol: 586.8L
ODO: 42885
Av Consumption: 1.37 L/100km

antiscab
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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by antiscab » Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 20:34

Similar approach to hacking together a plug in prius.

Either build a battery pack slightly higher nominal voltage than the original and direct connect in parallel on the inverter side ofthe current sensor, or use a dc-dc with a more manageable lower voltage battery.

With the second option, tc chargers can take dc in, just be strategic with system voltage
Matt
2011 Blade Electron mk6
2007 vectrix - 145'000km
1998 Prius - needs batt
1999 Prius - needs batt

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coulomb
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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by coulomb » Sun, 27 Aug 2017, 07:56

antiscab wrote:
Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 20:34
With the second option, tc chargers can take dc in, just be strategic with system voltage
Yes, Elcon / TC chargers, or at least the pre 2014 models that I'm familiar with, have a PFC stage that boosts the instantaneous rectified mains voltage (typically 0-340 V) to around 385 V. There is circuitry to measure the average of the rectified mains voltage, and signal whether the input is around 240 VAC, around 120 VAC, or too low. Charge power is reduced for 120 V mains, and charging is prevented if the average voltage is less than about 75 VDC (corresponding to about 83 VAC). It's even possible to defeat this logic with a jumper (J7) in provided holes; then it would be possible to charge from say 50 VDC. This is intended for bench testing, and continuous running at high power like that may or may not exceed the ratings of the PFC stage. Two 2 kW or one 4 or 5 kW model(s) would provide similar power to the Enginer system for the Prius. 10 kW or so should allow a lot more EV only driving in stop-start traffic.

That gets around the problem that DC-DC converters of appropriate voltage and power levels are difficult to source. Other charger brands and models may also be suitable for DC input, but it helps if you know at least in broad terms what is in the charger's front end.

[ Edit: jumper is in provided holes, not pins; added 75 VDC threshold. ]
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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reecho
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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by reecho » Sat, 02 Sep 2017, 21:16

There was a russian chap that filled the battery box with LiPo cells. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRd-o8tUVHc&t=84s

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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by poprock » Mon, 04 Sep 2017, 11:16

Hi Rob, Maybe off topic, but my friend has asked about charging his 2017 PHEV after only a 20k run. Is it critical to re-charge after partial discharge, or can it be left and allow the motor to kick in to re-charge? The vehicle is generally used every second or third day and does not stand partially discharged for a long period. We are both up with lead-acid but ignorant of Lithium.
Thanks in advance..Pop

rhills
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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by rhills » Mon, 04 Sep 2017, 11:32

Hi Pop,
I'm no expert so hopefully others will chip in if I'm wrong, but here's what I do. I always plug our PHEV in and charge it fully at any opportunity and regardless of the battery SOC. However many of my trips in the PHEV use most if not all of the battery range so I have an incentive to keep it topped up. One myth people seem to hang on to from the days of NiCad batteries is the belief that you have to fully discharge batteries before recharging them. Lithiums generally don't display any memory effect and don't have any problem with being charged up from any level.

I always try and avoid charging from the motor, but that's only because I bought this vehicle to minimise the amount of fossil fuel I have to use for transport.

I believe that if the vehicle is being left unused for long periods of time (weeks-months?) it is actually better for the batteries to be partially discharged anyway.

HTH,
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Jun 2018
Total Petrol: 586.8L
ODO: 42885
Av Consumption: 1.37 L/100km

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4Springs
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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by 4Springs » Tue, 05 Sep 2017, 18:15

poprock wrote:
Mon, 04 Sep 2017, 11:16
Hi Rob, Maybe off topic, but my friend has asked about charging his 2017 PHEV after only a 20k run. Is it critical to re-charge after partial discharge, or can it be left and allow the motor to kick in to re-charge? The vehicle is generally used every second or third day and does not stand partially discharged for a long period. We are both up with lead-acid but ignorant of Lithium.
Thanks in advance..Pop
In theory lithium batteries can be used pretty much any way you want to. The only really bad thing is to discharge them completely - they will not recover from that.
My understanding is that the Outlander software takes good care of its battery - it never lets it discharge anywhere near the dangerous level. When the battery indicator reads zero and the petrol motor kicks in you still have something like one sixth of a charge left. So really you can leave it in any state of discharge, or charge it, or whatever you like. We always charge ours up at any opportunity so that it is full next time we use it. Almost every trip we make discharges the battery 'completely'.

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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by poprock » Fri, 20 Oct 2017, 11:17

Hi, off topic, please move if necessary; My AXE 7245 is showing solid red .According to AXE this means that it is stuck in programming mode; the solution as follows:
" Hello.
If the controller powers on and the light goes solid red that means that the controller is stuck in programming mode and would need to be sent back to us to reload the source code. If the controller Is out of warranty there would be a $35.00 charge plus shipping.

Thanks,

Ron Manns

Technical Support/Customer Service Manager

541-476-3565 Ext. 110 ". Is it possible for anyone here to do this? $35 US is reasonable, but I haven't priced freight yet. Anyone in AU who could do this?

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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by antiscab » Fri, 20 Oct 2017, 14:49

Try evworks or evpower. I think one or the other, or both, had a programmer
Matt
2011 Blade Electron mk6
2007 vectrix - 145'000km
1998 Prius - needs batt
1999 Prius - needs batt

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Re: Outlander PHEV Range Extender?

Post by poprock » Fri, 20 Oct 2017, 15:22

Thanks, I will try them. Worthwhile if it cuts down on overseas postage. :)

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