2010 Imiev charging question

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reecho
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2010 Imiev charging question

Post by reecho » Tue, 20 Jun 2017, 02:48

g4qber wrote: Bob's Cable doesn't work on latest 3phase HPWCs with 2011 imiev
He's gonna check with his engineers Monday


His engineers??

Thought he was one.

He tested his adaptor with a 1st gen single phase HPWC. They don't work the same as the new 3 phase units.... :-)

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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 07:10

bmscott wrote:
Tue, 30 May 2017, 19:09



Well why can my 2010 iMiev charge from everything I can plug it into? It'll charge at 30-35 amps at CHAdeMO, 15 amps at the J1772 and 10 amps at home from the wall socket (via Ampfibian adapter).

I thought every 2010 iMiev in Australia was brought in as part of the same car-share scheme - that's how I got mine with less than 9,000kms on it. Even assuming mine has been modified with that extra pin or whatever, your experience seems to be of a car that's even more crippled than one would expect without it.

Or maybe I'm just special.
Hi Ben,
this " Ampfibian adapter" I wish to explore abit further. I would prefer to charge with 10 rather than 13 Amps at home.
The other thing I like to mention is your blue tooth dongle : I have used it recently on three 2012 iMiEVs as well as on my 2010 and it connected straight away to all of them.
Interesting maybe to know that the 3 2012s appear to have similar very good battery conditions despite the fact that one has about 60 K km, one about 50 K km and the last only 1200km.
If there is deterioration, it seams age has as much to do as numbers of cycles.
Compared to my 2010 (45K km) their batteries are definitely in better shape . I suspect the improved cells (Juasa LEV50N I think) may be a factor.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by coulomb » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 17:44

This is quoting an older post, but it was quoted above.
bmscott wrote:
Tue, 30 May 2017, 19:09
Well why can my 2010 iMiev charge from everything I can plug it into? It'll charge at 30-35 amps at CHAdeMO, 15 amps at the J1772 and 10 amps at home from the wall socket (via Ampfibian adapter).
Charging via the CHAdeMO connector (if fitted) is a DC charge. In essence, during a CHAdeMO fast charge, the charger is in the charging station, not in the car. CHAdeMO bypasses the car's charger. Essentially the battery terminals are exposed to two large pins of the CHAdeMO connector after some handshaking. The car's BMS tells the charger in the fast charger when to back off. So you get the grunt of the external charger (up to 50 kW or more) and the control of your own car's BMS; the best of both worlds. They're not all like that because the fast chargers are more expensive than the AC charging stations, which are a glorified AC power outlet.

When you charge via J1772, you are connecting AC mains to the input of the car's charger. Now the communications over the port isn't about how full the battery is, it's about how much power the AC source can safely provide. So you can run flat out (13-15 A, maybe there is a little variation in 2010 chargers, or the reported 15 A is reading a little high), or you can throttle the car's charger back to 10 A so as not to overload a domestic outlet. So you can never charge faster from J1772 than your internal charger allows. That's why some owners end up installing an extra one or two chargers in their cars. But if those owners do a lot of fast charging (from DC fast chargers like CHAdeMO), then the internal chargers (both the original and any extra internal chargers) aren't used.

Also note that the 30-35 amps at CHAdeMO are DC amps, at around 350 VDC, whereas the 15 or 10 amps for J1772 or Ampfibian are AC amps, at around 240 VAC. So the DC amps count for about 50% more power than the AC amps. For example, on an iMiEV, a 30 A CHAdeMO charge is about 3x faster than a 15 A AC charge (30 x 350 = 10.5 kW, verses 15 x 240 = 3.6 kW).
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 19:37

coulomb wrote:
Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 17:44

, or you can throttle the car's charger back to 10 A so as not to overload a domestic outlet. So you can never charge faster from J1772 than your internal charger allows. T
Yes that throttling back to equal or less than 10Amps is what I wish to do. How does it work,what do I have to do?
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by coulomb » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 21:05

nuggetgalore wrote:
Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 19:37
Yes that throttling back to equal or less than 10Amps is what I wish to do. How does it work,what do I have to do?
It depends on the situation. If you're not using J1772, you just need to limit the power your charger can draw. If you only have a 2 kW charger, there is nothing to do. If you have say a 3 kW charger, you can limit the charge current such that you supply say 2.2 kW to the battery, so you only draw about 2.4 kW (10 A) from the AC side.

If you have a real* J1772 port on a manufactured EV, then you need electronics in your EVSE (EV Service Equipment) to send the right signals to the on-board charger to limit the maximum charger current draw from mains to 6 A or 10 A. Some EVSEs have a way of selecting the maximum current on the handle of the J1772 plug. Others you can set the limit with DIP switches or the like. If you are making your own EVSE, there is a small printed circuit that can be used (I can't find an example right now) that I believe allows you to set the current limit. If you use the Holden Volt EVSE, it will send the signals to limit the current to 10 A.

[ * Edit: as pointed out below, the stock 2010 charge cable has no electronics. So that doesn't count as a real J1772 port, even if it uses the J1772 connector. ]

[ Edit: added "to the battery"; maximum current draw -> maximum charger current draw from mains ]
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by mikedufty » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 10:24

The charge cable that comes with the 2010 i MiEVs does not have any electronics. The charging port is also missing the pins to communicate with other EVSE cables. Some have been modified to work, but I'm not sure if they really communicate fully or it is just a fudge to allow it to work at some default level. Anyone know?

Do you know if yours has the mod? If you are able to charge from public charging stations or a cable with box from a 2012 model then you have the mod done.

The ampfibian just has a circuit breaker to allow you to plug in loads of 10amp or less safely into a 10 amp outlet, even though they have 15 amp plug. It will trip out if the load goes much over 10amp. A few people have reported using them successfully with the stock imiev charging cord, which doesn't usually go much over 10amp.

If you have the mod done to allow it to work I suspect a volt EVSE is the best solution for real 10 amp charging.

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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 14:52

mikedufty wrote:
Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 10:24
The charge cable that comes with the 2010 i MiEVs does not have any electronics. The charging port is also missing the pins to communicate with other EVSE cables. Some have been modified to work, but I'm not sure if they really communicate fully or it is just a fudge to allow it to work at some default level. Anyone know?

Do you know if yours has the mod? If you are able to charge from public charging stations or a cable with box from a 2012 model then you have the mod done.

The amphibian just has a circuit breaker to allow you to plug in loads of 10amp or less safely into a 10 amp outlet, even though they have 15 amp plug. It will trip out if the load goes much over 10amp. A few people have reported using them successfully with the stock imiev charging cord, which doesn't usually go much over 10amp.

If you have the mod done to allow it to work I suspect a volt EVSE is the best solution for real 10 amp charging.
Thanks Mike.
I do not know if mine is modified.
" cable with box from a 2012 model then you have the mod done ": I will check with a 2012 owner's cable next time I see him.
I can (and have a couple of times) charged it at BMW and Dandenong market (just to see if it works and to let them know it is appreciated).
I will go to check out a " Portable EVSE EV Level 2 Charger 6 / 10 / 15A Switchable - (3.3kw)" at EVolution in Oakleigh to see if it works . A bit pricey at $499 (plus probably an amphibian @ 100 bucks) but then beggars cant be choosers and now that I have trouble to get to the other side of Melbourne and back I want my mates over there to pay for the juice,lol.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by mikedufty » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 00:31

I think the volt evse was a lot cheaper than that, don't know how easy it is to find still find one. You shouldn't need the ampfibian as well if you get a 10a EVSE, the volt one has a 10amp plug I think. I believe some outlander PHEV owners also got a 10a evse which should work. I think if you could charge at the locations you mentioned you must have the mod installed. Mine had a little hand written card with the log book mentioning the mod.

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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 06:02

mikedufty wrote:
Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 00:31
I think the volt evse was a lot cheaper than that, don't know how easy it is to find still find one. You shouldn't need the ampfibian as well if you get a 10a EVSE, the volt one has a 10amp plug I think. I believe some outlander PHEV owners also got a 10a evse which should work. I think if you could charge at the locations you mentioned you must have the mod installed. Mine had a little hand written card with the log book mentioning the mod.
don't know how easy it is to find still find one : I tried coulombs holden link but Volt is not on the list.Have to keep searching.
You shouldn't need the ampfibian as well : depends if the EVolution has a 15 A earth pin. I will find out soon.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by rhills » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 09:20

mikedufty wrote:
Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 00:31
I think the volt evse was a lot cheaper than that, don't know how easy it is to find still find one. You shouldn't need the ampfibian as well if you get a 10a EVSE, the volt one has a 10amp plug I think. I believe some outlander PHEV owners also got a 10a evse which should work.
I use the Volt EVSE to charge my Mitsubishi Outlander with no problems. It does have a 10A plug (the one with the Earth pin the same size as the other 2 pins).

Not sure where you'd buy one (I bought mine second-hand) but I'd just try your local Holden dealer, they should be able to get one in. I can check mine for a part number if that would help. I believe they retailed for about $350 at the time I bought mine.

There's a thread about the Holden EVSE here.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 21:17

GM-23487637 is a part no mentioned in the other thread.
Just for interest: my mates 2012 can only be charged with the cable that has the box inline. It charges the 2012 with about 8 amps. This same cable charges my 2010 with ~12.5 Amps, exactly the same as with my own. So there must be some signal being relayed to the 2012 charger from the EVSE that it only pushes 8 amps. My cable (and my mate also has one without the box) does not handshake with the onboard charger and it refuses to charge.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Sat, 09 Sep 2017, 06:16

coulomb wrote:
Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 21:05
nuggetgalore wrote:
Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 19:37
Yes that throttling back to equal or less than 10Amps is what I wish to do. How does it work,what do I have to do?
e. If you are making your own EVSE, there is a small printed circuit that can be used (I can't find an example right now) that I believe allows you to set the current limit. If you use the Holden Volt EVSE, it will send the signals to limit the current to 10 A.

[ * Edit: as pointed out below, the stock 2010 charge cable has no electronics. So that doesn't count as a real J1772 port, even if it uses the J1772 connector. ]

[ Edit: added "to the battery"; maximum current draw -> maximum charger current draw from mains ]
there is a small printed circuit that can be used:
I read posts here a while back that some body (in QLD I think) was developing a EVSE that senses the available solar power and adjusts the charge rate.I wonder what happened to that project. Sadly I cant find the thread any more.
That would be really useful for PV array owners.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by nuggetgalore » Wed, 22 Nov 2017, 18:40

Hi all iMiEV wizzards.
I have another charging question . Because the 2010 iMiEV (at least mine) charges with 12.5 A, I use an Ampfibian when I charge at a friends place to legally plug it into a 10 A power point. It works but I have to reset the Ampfibian several times as it trips sometimes after ten minutes, sometimes 30 minutes.Not consistent (could be temp has an influence).
Is there a danger to hurt the battery (unlikely) or the charger (more likely) ,if the charger gets reconnected soon after it was disconnected? Soon after, how soon if it was the case?
Thanks for any advice.
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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by reecho » Tue, 28 Nov 2017, 16:37

If your I-Miev doesn't have the 5th pin fitted to the J1772 socket on the car you can not use EVSE's. Easy to check visually.

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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by g4qber » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 05:33

reecho wrote:
Tue, 20 Jun 2017, 02:48
g4qber wrote: Bob's Cable doesn't work on latest 3phase HPWCs with 2011 imiev
He's gonna check with his engineers Monday


His engineers??

Thought he was one.

He tested his adaptor with a 1st gen single phase HPWC. They don't work the same as the new 3 phase units.... :-)
Bob and Phil’s new model now works with my 2011 imiev. Allegedly works on Phev and presumably 2010 imievs too

$338 delivered with aeva member discount.

But not ip66 water resistant as it has 2 switches. One to select single / 3 phase and the other to select between 2 3phase configurations.
:roll: 2011 i-MiEV - 144 kms June 2018

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Re: 2010 Imiev charging question

Post by reecho » Sat, 02 Dec 2017, 16:58

I spoke to Phil about his "frankenstein" adaptor.

He agreed it's not really the best way to do it. Legacy mode inside the HPWC is the better bet.

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