What to replace i-MiEV with?

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by Hippie403 » Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 20:50

offgridQLD wrote: Why replace it just replace the battery. That's my plan for our 2012 imiev on its 10th birthday if it needs it.

Kurt.


I'm not sure it will be easy to replace the pack 10 years time.
Also it seems to me I am running a risk of having to replace the pack in the 5-10 year period at my expense that wouldn't be there with a new car warranty.

I'd love to just replace the pack if it was a reasonable cost no fuss option, even better if a larger capacity pack was available, but I'm expecting i-MiEV battery replacement to be problematic in 2023.

If the long range Zoe is available here in 2018, i'd trade the i-MiEV and get rid of the ICE car I have on standby, used once in 2016.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 21:54

From memory last person I spoke to that contacted MM was talking more like $7000 all up for a new battery and asotiated gear.

One other advantage is depreciation.

Any new car has it in spades and most EVs have it in bucket loads.

Given most of us got our imiev's new or near new for 1/2 RRP or some Less 2nd hand depreciation isn't a concern

I would say with the first years depreciation on a new EV you could have a new battery installed no fuss and still have change.

MM have to supply parts for a long time to come. Perhaps after the 1st battery change at the 10 year mark or so at once that 2nd battery is toast and the cars 20 years old you would most likely be sick of the car. Though even if you went for a 3rd replacment another 10 years on. That's only two pack replacements and 30 years of motoring for say $14,000.

Though it's not all about money I'm just a total cheapskate with most things and try and ring every last bit of value out of things.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 11:00, edited 1 time in total.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by nuggetgalore » Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 22:38

offgridQLD wrote: From memory last person I spoke to that contacted MM was talking more like $7000 all up for a new battery and asotiated gear.

One other advantage is depreciation.

Any new car has it in spades and most EVs have it in bucket loads.

Given most of us got our imiev's new or near new for 1/2 RRP or some Less 2nd hand depreciation isn't a concern.
Yep, all of you who were able to get the trial EV's for a song were lucky!
I can only hope that the battery in my iMiEV ( already down to less than 100km) lasts a few more years or my expensive toy gets even more expensive!

[ Edited by Coulomb: added missing end quote tag ]
Last edited by coulomb on Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 12:08, edited 1 time in total.
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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by HHL » Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 23:10

offgridQLD wrote: From memory last person I spoke to that contacted MM was talking more like $7000 all up for a new battery and asotiated gear.

One other advantage is depreciation.

Any new car has it in spades and most EVs have it in bucket loads.

Given most of us got our imiev's new or near new for 1/2 RRP or some Less 2nd hand depreciation isn't a concern

I would say with the first years depreciation on a new EV you could have a new battery installed no fuss and still have change.

MM have to supply parts for a long time to come. Perhaps after the 1st battery change at the 10 year mark or so at once that 2nd battery is toast and the cars 20 years old you would most likely be sick of the car. Though even if you went for a 3rd replacment another 10 years on. That's only two pack replacements and 30 years of motoring for say $14,000.

Though it's not all about money I'm just a total cheapskate with most things and try and ring every last bit of value out of things.

Kurt


Not sure if there is actually a minimum time a manufacturer has to provide parts these days. In any case, it is easy to get around by pricing them so nobody in their right mind would buy them.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 23:19

Well a 2010 only needs to last to 2020 for the 10 year rule of thumb Im using. Though it will depend on what range you need minimum befor the car isn't usefull any more.

Our 2012 has to able to do a 25km trip two times a day with 5hrs in-between to recharge 250km week . While it can still do this it's still a very usefull car to me saving us lots of shot trips In our diesle car. We do one 85km round trip once a week also (that isn't realy that essential)for a total of around 300km week avaraged. So our imiev would need to be down to say less than 50km total range befor I would need to look at a new battery due to it not being practical.

Just need it to keep above that for the next 5 years and I'm happy. By that stage our daughter won't need school runs from us every day and our driving needs will be less. This works out to $700pa for battery replacment (based on price mentioned) and charging for me it's from the sun offgrid so other than tyres it's reasonably inexpensive motoring. Particularly considering we are early adopters of some fun. toys Image

Though if you have lots of long trips and the imiev is pushing the limits when new then it's not going to remain usefull for long.

Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 12:25, edited 1 time in total.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 25 Jan 2017, 23:21

Regarding the battery cells they are the same cells as the outlander uses so I'm sure they are available from MM or yuasa LEV50 or lev50n
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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by HHL » Thu, 26 Jan 2017, 13:27

offgridQLD wrote: Regarding the battery cells they are the same cells as the outlander uses so I'm sure they are available from MM or yuasa LEV50 or lev50n


Actually, they are not the same. The Outlander uses LEV40 cells

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 26 Jan 2017, 13:43

The idea was as long as yuasa are making cells for MM you will be able to get cells for your imiev.

Even if for some reason you can't it's just a battery. Use another battery cell and rebuild The pack. I have a spare battery box in the shed from a wreck and it's a very simple layout.

They are still celling the imiev in other parts of the world.
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 26 Jan 2017, 02:44, edited 1 time in total.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by Hippie403 » Thu, 26 Jan 2017, 14:07

offgridQLD wrote: The idea was as long as yuasa are making cells for MM you will be able to get cells for your imiev.

Even if for some reason you can't it's just a battery. Use another battery cell and rebuild The pack. I have a spare battery box in the shed from a wreck and it's a very simple layout.

They are still celling the imiev in other parts of the world.


Isn't it a bit tricky to remove and refit an i-MiEV pack without the correct lifting gear?

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 26 Jan 2017, 14:20

I have a 4 ton two post car lift in the shed that would make he job easy.


Though I'm sure with some jacks car stands and creativity you could lower it down it's only 250kg or so perhaps even less.


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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by Hippie403 » Fri, 27 Jan 2017, 19:10

Would it be possible to rebuild an i-MiEV pack with LEV75 cells?

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by Ultralights » Fri, 27 Jan 2017, 23:49

Hippie403 wrote: Would it be possible to rebuild an i-MiEV pack with LEV75 cells?

I have been wondering if you could do the same with the Outlander pack, replace the 45's with the 70's..    i do have a wrecked complete outlander in the back yard, but dont have the time or money to experiment.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 28 Jan 2017, 00:31

First hurdle would be the physical dimensions of the LEV75 cells. I would assume because a LEV75 has 50% more capacity than a LEV50 that it would be larger in size or has the energy density of the LEV75 improved enough to have the same dimensions as the LEV50?



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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by nuggetgalore » Sat, 28 Jan 2017, 03:59

[quote="offgridQLD"] First hurdle would be the physical dimensions of the LEV75 cells. I would assume because a LEV75 has 50% more capacity than a LEV50 that it would be larger in size or has the energy density of the LEV75 improved enough to have the same dimensions as the LEV50?


Found that at http://pushevs.com/2015/11/12/gs-yuasa-new-cells/

by Pedro Lima · November 12, 2015
80 cells of LEV75 in Partner/Berlingo: 380 kg. (2 packs of 48 plus 32 cells)
80 cells of LEV50N in Ion/C-Zero: 186 kg.

Therefore, it’s likely, the LEV75 cells are larger and heavier.
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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by Hippie403 » Mon, 30 Jan 2017, 03:47

Chuq wrote:
Simon wrote: What about the Hyundai Ioniq Phev and EV? Is there a chance we will see them here soon? Image
The Hyundai dealer in Hobart has said they will be getting a charger installed later in the year for the introduction of the Ioniq. Optimistically, you may think they wouldn't need one for the PHEV (just use a 10A/15A) and so they are planning for the introduction of the full EV?


I think they are introducing the PHEV first Thanks for mentioning the Ioniq, I hadn't considered it seriously, but it coild be a contender if we get the EV version with the new larger capacity pack.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by bmscott » Mon, 30 Jan 2017, 19:01

(Hi Tinker - I think we met earlier today...)

My plan has been to hold onto the iMiev so long as it gets a reliable 100km range, then upgrade perhaps to a Leaf. Or if I can hold out long enough, and BMW comes through on the rumors, a 2019 electric Mini!!

I bought my 2010 iMiev in 2015 with less than 10,000 kms and its battery seems near-new, with very little degradation. I recently helped Tinker get a read on his battery, and while we don't have full charge/discharge specs, we confirmed there are no bad cells dragging things down. 80kms would be less than ideal for an iMiev with (as his has) only 40,000-ish kms, I would think.

I think battery condition would be a huge resale point and as I've mentioned in another thread, it'd be great if there was some simple and objective way to convey this. I'm assuming here that anyone buying an iMiev would be at least familiar with issues such as this, or they wouldn't even be looking into EVs in the first place.

And the resale value of an iMiev would figure greatly into "what to replace it with"...

But for now, mine will still go to and from work twice over one one charge (barely) or into the city and back, and that's all I've needed for most of the past 10 years.

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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 30 Jan 2017, 21:40

KM on the clock doesn't seem to play a big part in the health of a EV battery.

Some Imievs with close to 100,000km have similar battery health (usable capacity) to Imievs with 20,000km.

I agree if you are worrying about a battery and what to do years down the track if and when you need one and that's a big issue for some one then they are going to have that issue with any EV. As they all run on battery's and battery's don't last for ever.

Fully discharge the car and then measure how many whrs it takes from the wall to refill it to 100%. The only variation for comparison is what rate you charge at but the 2010s can just use the 13A rate (or what ever it is stock) the 2012s can use the stock 10A EVSE for comparison sake.

Good enough for comparison purposes.

Mentioning range in KM to deturmine battery health is not good at all as you could live on a salt pan or a mountain. Perhaps drive into head winds, tail winds, fast speeds, slow speeds, accelerate aggressively, heater on , AC on you name it the same car could have a 50km rang or a 150km range under all the different conditions.

The whrs to fill it up when controlled through a EVSE at a set charge rate starting from turtle(what the imieve calls empty) and charging to 100%






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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by nuggetgalore » Tue, 31 Jan 2017, 03:11

bmscott wrote: (Hi Tinker - I think we met earlier today...)

My plan has been to hold onto the iMiev so long as it gets a reliable 100km range, then upgrade perhaps to a Leaf. Or if I can hold out long enough, and BMW comes through on the rumors, a 2019 electric Mini!!

I bought my 2010 iMiev in 2015 with less than 10,000 kms and its battery seems near-new, with very little degradation. I recently helped Tinker get a read on his battery, and while we don't have full charge/discharge specs, we confirmed there are no bad cells dragging things down. 80kms would be less than ideal for an iMiev with (as his has) only 40,000-ish kms, I would think.
Yes thanks bmscott.
As per your suggestion,I will check the tyre pressures tomorrow to see if that is low.
Then once we get better charge discharge data that could give more clues.
tinker

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Post by nuggetgalore » Tue, 31 Jan 2017, 03:29

offgridQLD wrote: KM on the clock doesn't seem to play a big part in the health of a EV battery.


Fully discharge the car and then measure how many whrs it takes from the wall to refill it to 100%. The only variation for comparison is what rate you charge at but the 2010s can just use the 13A rate (or what ever it is stock) the 2012s can use the stock 10A EVSE for comparison sake.

Good enough for comparison purposes.


The whrs to fill it up when controlled through a EVSE at a set charge rate starting from turtle(what the imieve calls empty) and charging to 100%



I checked the charge rate on my 2010 standard (I assume) charging cable both with a power meter an a clamp meter:12.45 A.
Once to see if it works charged at BMW's 6.6 A charger and the display showed exactly the same Amps, I thought it would pump in a bit more.
I try to get some more data and then do the empty to full test.
thanks for the hints.
tinker

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Post by bmscott » Tue, 31 Jan 2017, 15:13

I would also point out that once the battery starts to decline (when the cause is simply age/use) it's often a steady and noticeable decline.

So if you're getting 80km range now, and still about 80km after 6 more months of regular usew, that's probably down to the conditions in which you're driving and perhaps your driving style as much as anything.

And if your battery is NOT an imminent problem, it's very likely, in a car like this, that nothing else will be either!

I've put about 20,000km on my car since I got it in Sept 2015 and battery capacity is still virtually the same.

But yeah, check your tire pressure regularly - I do mine every fortnight or so. It's amazing what difference just a few psi can make.

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What to replace i-MiEV with?

Post by nuggetgalore » Tue, 31 Jan 2017, 22:34

bmscott wrote: I would also point out that once the battery starts to decline (when the cause is simply age/use) it's often a steady and noticeable decline.

So if you're getting 80km range now, and still about 80km after 6 more months of regular usew, that's probably down to the conditions in which you're driving and perhaps your driving style as much as anything.

But yeah, check your tire pressure regularly - I do mine every fortnight or so. It's amazing what difference just a few psi can make.


Thanks for the tip re tyre pressure.It was down on all 4 wheels.

Re driving style, I have so far driven mainly in ECO, keeping the power inside the green. The previous owner while showing us the car demonstrated the full acceleration, so I know what it can do ,not my style of driving but good to know it can do it if required.
tinker

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