Buying a used Outlander PHEV

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rustom
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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by rustom » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 17:54

Hi everyone!

This is such a great and informative forum. I'm planning on buying a used PHEV at a local dealership in Perth and wanted to know what all things to look out for (that the salesmen don't actually tell you during their sales pitch and test drive).

The PHEV's done 20000+ kms so far and seems to be in good cosmetic condition.

I'm also unsure about what sort of electrical charging setup I will need at home to charge the PHEV at home and the costs involved for the setup.

Grateful for all your inputs and suggestions.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Johny » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 18:19

Funnily enough we just bought an Outlander PHEV and picked it up yesterday. The ZJ - not the Aspire.
It had done 12,000km and still had the efficiency stickers on the windscreen. The dealer had 5 of the ZJ 2014/2015s in Arctic Silver (colour that we liked). Between 12k and 21k km.
Lacking an OBD2 dongle, we just had to go on more conventional things.

- Wheel gutter rash.
- Dents and signs of repair.
- Interior - the one we bought was the only one with a pristine interior. The next closest had scuffing on the headliner.
Towbar - we wanted one because it will tow our nearly 1500kg (loaded) caravan (sob, my 1967 Humber is retiring and getting sold). We would have gone without a towbar had another one been in better condition.

I climbed under all 5 and one of the 2 candidates had plenty of rust on the exhaust. It also had a towbar, lots of bugs in the aircon grill. We concluded that it had probably launched a boat a few times. Around 16K km.

Underneath I also looked for signs of bottoming or off-road scratches.

One had a flat 12V battery and the one we bought instantly started the ICE with the message about running it to condition the fuel system (15 litres every 3 months).
My test drive lasted 30 minutes in an attempt to use a much fuel as possible. The battery appeared OK and took about the right amount of time to partially charge during that drive. The book says about 40 minutes to reach around 80-85% in Charge mode. It took 15.2 litres when the dealer topped it up two days later and reverted to EV mode - whew!

I have bought a dongle - yet to arrive. It would have been helpful to have one at the time.

All of these vehicles have sat around in yards and the dealer was unable to say where they has been - various Mitsu dealers and Mitsu Australia was his guess.

Without EvBatMon and the OBD2 dongle it's a bit pot luck as to the battery condition but being a PHEV the car has a least been able to take care of the battery if it's been run every now and then.

Hope this helps a bit. Maybe others will chip in.
Last edited by Johny on Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 08:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Johny » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 18:20

A helpful PHEV graphic:

Image

rustom
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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by rustom » Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 18:35

Johny wrote:

I have bought a dongle - yet to arrive. It would have been helpful to have one at the time.


Thanks for your info, We too bought an Aspire Phev last night, negotiated a good deal with the local mitsi dealer on a 2015 model done ~14k kms.

Seems it was an ex-mitsi rep vehicle.

Which dongle did you buy and from where - $$$ ? Does the Aspire spec still need an OBD dongle or does it communicate via the built-in wifi access point?

So many questions...shows i'm an EV newbie :)

Thanks everyone!

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by g4qber » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 13:07

Perhaps the rusty ones have been through this
https://youtu.be/bqET3YIlJGA
2011 i-MiEV - 161 k kms

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by rhills » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 19:28

Hi Rustom,

Congrats on your purchase, we've had our Outlander PHEV for 2 years now and still love driving it. So far we've used a total of 414 L of fuel for 28893 km (about 1.4 L/100km).
rustom wrote:... Which dongle did you buy and from where - $$$ ? Does the Aspire spec still need an OBD dongle or does it communicate via the built-in wifi access point? ...
You don't need the OBD dongle to connect to Mitsubishi's own interface to the Outlander, just download their app (Outlander PHEV Remote Control in the Google Store if you have an Android device).

There's a privately developed app (details elsewhere on this forum) that enables you to get much more detail about the state of the battery etc. For that you do need the dongle.
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2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
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Total Petrol: 622.0L
ODO: 44964
Av Consumption: 1.38 L/100km

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Johny » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 20:13

I have been unable to connect to the PHEV with my phone. The Door closed, ACC, 10 times On/Off doesn't appear to have any effect. Is this system just for the Aspire? We have the ZJ.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Johny » Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 20:26

Don't worry - I have discovered the Remote Control via Phone App is an Aspire only feature. I'll set up another externally timed outlet like I use for the Vogue.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by reecho » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 01:28

OBD MX dongle works brilliantly with the Android app...

Factory service manuals are here

I'm sure that will keep you busy Johny... :-)

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Johny » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 04:26

Wife says "don't you dare..."

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by g4qber » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 15:55

http://www.caradvice.com.au/325276/mits ... challenge/

like the comments on this page
as Rick Woodbury would say "right tool for job"

like Pauly's comments especially
Last edited by g4qber on Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 05:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by rustom » Mon, 03 Oct 2016, 07:19

Does anyone know if LDW (Lane Departure Warning) feature is enabled in the Australian PHEV Aspire variant? I dont have the LDW switch on my dashboard nor does it beep when i switch lanes without indicating (not that i change lanes without indicating but during LDW testing).

Going to get the jaycar obd dongle this week.

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

@reecho - thanks for the service manual link. :)

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Ultralights » Tue, 04 Oct 2016, 02:02

i love those stories comparing the PHEV and the diesel model over a single set trip, conveniently forgetting the weeks and weeks of petrol free commuting it would most likely do, before going on another trip outside of battery range.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by HHL » Fri, 18 Nov 2016, 03:19

Just had my first year anniversary with the PHEV and still like the car a lot!
Bought as an ex Mitsubishi fleet car with 10,000km on it, now 21,000.
Here are some stats:
When I test drove the car before buying it, I asked them to fully charge it and I then drove it until the engine came on. Got 48km in city traffic, pretty smooth run and no aircon.
Today I did the same, drove it until the engine came on, different route, a few more hills (Dee Why to Palm Beach and back to near Manly), I got 48.5km before the engine started!
Bought EVBATMON not long after I got the car, and it showed 90.53% battery condition. A few months later it actually went up to 91.8 and stayed there for a few months, 2 months ago it went down to 89.4, but now it is back to 90.53.
In any case, there seems to be very little change in the battery capacity after a full year. I don't know what it was when first delivered, but it probably has lost less than 10% in the 2 1/2 years since the car was made.
So, overall very happy.. only caveat is dealer servicing. Was initially quoted $880.00 by the dealer I bought it from for the 24 mths service. WTF!!!!
The car is not covered by fixed price service as it was an ex fleet car.
Got it done for $470.00 at another dealer and I reckon that is still top $ as it is really just an oil and filter change and brake fluid replacement.
They did update the maps and the MMCS (I asked for that) and I am entitled to another free update until sept next year.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by Johny » Fri, 18 Nov 2016, 14:31

rustom wrote:Going to get the jaycar obd dongle this week.
Just on that note...
I bought a $20 WiFi OBD2 dongle off eBay - the one suggested as the cheapy on EvBatMon website (he DID say buy a better one but I thought - what the heck).
It connected and worked perfectly - the first day.
It worked for 2 days. Not having much luck with the seller. They answer messages and all but want a video - showing what? Dead air?
Don't buy a cheap one.
I'll be getting the Jaycar one as well.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by HHL » Fri, 18 Nov 2016, 15:23

I use the Jaycar one which works very well, it also has an on-off switch so I leave it plugged in.
I did get a cheapy ebay one which I liked because it was a low profile plug, however, first time I plugged it in it gave me a scary message "EV system requires service"......never tried it again Image

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by EmpowerRepower » Sun, 04 Dec 2016, 04:12

A question for the Outlander PHEV drivers... has anyone worked out how many km they get per kwH of charging? I get 6 km/per kwH on my Leaf, but the PHEV would be heavier. Just trying to work out whether the extra cost of getting set up to use off-peak electricity, at half the price per kwH, would be worthwhile if I buy this car. Just about to have an electrician come in to do some other work, so thinking about this option.
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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by HHL » Sun, 04 Dec 2016, 11:07

The official figure is 134Wh/km. My real life figure in suburban use is around 200Wh/km so that makes it 5km/kWh. I charge at off-peak rates (around 10c/kWh) and when it shows no bar on the battery level, it takes around 5 hours and 9kWh to charge.
Last edited by HHL on Sun, 04 Dec 2016, 10:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Buying a used Outlander PHEV

Post by zzcoopej » Sun, 04 Dec 2016, 16:57

EmpowerRepower wrote: A question for the Outlander PHEV drivers... has anyone worked out how many km they get per kwH of charging? I get 6 km/per kwH on my Leaf, but the PHEV would be heavier. Just trying to work out whether the extra cost of getting set up to use off-peak electricity, at half the price per kwH, would be worthwhile if I buy this car. Just about to have an electrician come in to do some other work, so thinking about this option.


A simple envelope calc based on 12kWh battery and 47km range has mine at about 3.9km/kWh.
I think the big issue in terms of justifying the cost of off-peak wiring is that you can only put in about 12kWh a day, so saving @10c/kWh would be limited to $1.20/day saved or around $200/yr depending on your use.
I purchased a J1772 to menekes on ebay, cut the menekes end off and got a sparky to wire it via a breaker into the OP HWS circuit (Ausgrid allows "permanently wired"). However that is just for our iMiEV, I didn't bother doing it for the PHEV as via Time of Use tariff I can charge the PHEV only 1c/kWh more than OP clock rates. I did the iMiEV hardwire more to eliminate needing a plug in timer as we fried our first after 9mths of solid operation.
The PHEV has a built-in charge timer so ours is set to utilise our TOU off peak times at home location. An extra 12c per charge makes tapping the OP circuit pointless.
Unfortunately the PHEV needs an EVSE (not just cable as I did with our iMiEV), so your cost inc sparky would be steep I'm guessing close to $1000? I doubt your payback would be less than 5+ years and that would involve a LOT of < 50km trips.
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Post by HHL » Sun, 04 Dec 2016, 21:20

zzcoopej wrote:
EmpowerRepower wrote: A question for the Outlander PHEV drivers... has anyone worked out how many km they get per kwH of charging? I get 6 km/per kwH on my Leaf, but the PHEV would be heavier. Just trying to work out whether the extra cost of getting set up to use off-peak electricity, at half the price per kwH, would be worthwhile if I buy this car. Just about to have an electrician come in to do some other work, so thinking about this option.


A simple envelope calc based on 12kWh battery and 47km range has mine at about 3.9km/kWh.
I think the big issue in terms of justifying the cost of off-peak wiring is that you can only put in about 12kWh a day, so saving @10c/kWh would be limited to $1.20/day saved or around $200/yr depending on your use.
I purchased a J1772 to menekes on ebay, cut the menekes end off and got a sparky to wire it via a breaker into the OP HWS circuit (Ausgrid allows "permanently wired"). However that is just for our iMiEV, I didn't bother doing it for the PHEV as via Time of Use tariff I can charge the PHEV only 1c/kWh more than OP clock rates. I did the iMiEV hardwire more to eliminate needing a plug in timer as we fried our first after 9mths of solid operation.
The PHEV has a built-in charge timer so ours is set to utilise our TOU off peak times at home location. An extra 12c per charge makes tapping the OP circuit pointless.
Unfortunately the PHEV needs an EVSE (not just cable as I did with our iMiEV), so your cost inc sparky would be steep I'm guessing close to $1000? I doubt your payback would be less than 5+ years and that would involve a LOT of < 50km trips.


Have you actually measured how much it will take on a full charge? The highest ever I got was 9.7 kWh and that seems to line up with the fact that the car can't normally be discharged below 25%, so 9.7 plus the 3 kWh remaining works out at 12.7 total. Don't know what the losses are in the charger, but it gives a good ballpark of the battery capacity.
I have an external wattmeter and comparing it with the MMCS, it always records about 2 to 300 Wh more total input.

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