i-miev advice for a non owner

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cr12330
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i-miev advice for a non owner

Post by cr12330 » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 16:37

I went to see a client for work reason and found out he owns a i-miev and he said he was the only person privately that own a i-miev in Darwin and was happy to show me and let me take it for a test drive as well. I was quiet impressed and since then I've been researching more about this EV.

Darwin isn't a very big place and I want like to use this car for business and pleasure as well as I like to take this car for casual driving at night. I use to of this but petrol prices are coming up in Darwin to almost $1.70 litre so it stopped me from doing this any more but I think the i-miev might help me with my casual driving hobby again.

I think it should be fine because the further city away to see a client is about 39km away which is Darwin to Humpty Doo. So I think there is heaps of range. I know the price of a 2010 model is about $15,000 but I like to purchase this car in a years time so I still have a lot more study to do. I hope to purchase this car for around $10K or 12K by then, well I hope so.

There a few questions I like to find out, which model would be better to buy a 2010 or 2011, I don't see many 2011 around but my client has one and he brought it for $20,000 last year from Mitsubishi Newstead in Brisbane and shipped it up to Darwin for $600 dollars.

He told me the battery pack to replace is $8000 but I like to know if individual battery packs can be replace and how much will it be? As well how easy is to to obtain a additional charging cable or if the cable breaks down. I don't seem to see this kind of things easy to obtain by researching on google or on ebay that's my biggest concerns.

My Client said Mitsubishi Darwin did not wanted to service this car when they first saw it as they did not have a mechanic that knew what they were doing but now its just gone in for a second service in Darwin so they must of has a change of heart. I've been reading that this car has a 10 year warranties but might not cover the batteries after 5 years right? How reliable is the batteries and engine overall and will I be about to keep this car for 5 or 10 year as this car has less moving parts?

Thank you for all your replies,

Joseph

Last edited by cr12330 on Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 06:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Kieran » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 18:41

Welcome to the forum, Joseph.

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Post by MrD » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 18:56

Hi Joseph - you will find plenty of background elswhere on this forum regarding the minor differences between the 2010 and 2012 i-MiEV's. The general consensus is the 2012 has a slighlty better range. The ex-trial units that are coming on to the market are being 'snapped-up'and will eventually end up with astute buyers like yourself....but with only around 250 i-MiEV's across the Country don't leave your purchase too late- or you will miss out. Servicing should not be a problem as most dealerships are now servicing the Outlander PHEV, and Mitsubishi is no longer promoting the i-MiEV's.I can confirm from my experience (two years and 35,000kms) that you can expect over 120kms range with a single occupant and 100kms range with four...with smooth driving and no air-con. In Darwin, using the air-con will reduce the above figures. I am only now noticing a slight reduction in range - less than 5% - and anticipate many more kms of the electric driving experience.
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Post by Rusdy » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 19:12

The post from carnut1100 answers the difference between 2010 and 2012 imiev:

viewtopic.php?title=ex-better-place-vic ... 30&start=1

Also, the whole thread above is very useful to get more details in your i-Miev.

Regarding change individual battery... You wouldn't want to do that. You're going to create out-of-balance battery pack. So, you would change the whole pack instead.

Regarding how long the battery last... This will be interesting to know. In the presentation (https://www.sia.org.au/downloads/Divisi ... tation.pdf), they say it lasts 10 years. But, in real life, I guess only time will tell!

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Post by mikedufty » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 19:45

I think one of the i-MiEVs paceway mitsubishi in Perth have for sale is from Darwin (department of transport or similar). They were asking $18000 for it because of low km, but it was quite faded and dusty looking, presumably spent a bit of time parked outdoors there.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with prices when all the ex-lease ones have gone to private owners. I expect they'll continue to come down with age, but might be hard to find one until there are some good alternatives on the market for current owners to upgrade to. Expecting to hang onto ours for at least 5 years or so. Might be a few on the market when and if the cheap Teslas appear.

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Post by Richo » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 20:20

cr12330 wrote:I want like to use this car for ... pleasure
You the man Image
But I doubt the back seat is thaat comfy.
Has anybody tested the iMiev for back seat shenanigans?
Image
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Post by reecho » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 21:48

Richo wrote:
cr12330 wrote:I want like to use this car for ... pleasure
You the man Image
But I doubt the back seat is thaat comfy.
Has anybody tested the iMiev for back seat shenanigans?
Image


Depends on your definition of "back seat shenanigans".... Image

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Post by reecho » Thu, 09 Apr 2015, 21:54

Initially the 2010 ex lease I-Mievs had a factory warranty from Mitsubishi (al least mine did and I have that in writing)

Now it's only statutory. In essence that does place a little more risk on the owner if the traction battery fails after 3 months (or balance of original MMAU warranty).

It would pay to check with selling dealers exactly what warranty it comes with for more piece of mind.

For me that means negotiating hard...then harder...

The 2010's are showing battery wear. We have a member in Perth down to 78% capacity at around 20000kms. My wear appears similar at 35000kms. At this stage MMAU are not warranting capacity issues only battery "faults"

But for a toe in the water experience with a factory built EV they are hard to beat.
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Post by cr12330 » Sat, 11 Apr 2015, 00:15

Thank you everyone, more knowledge gathered. Yeah I the University still has 2 cars but I would buy this car from interstate as cars are always cost more here if they sell second hand. If you know any that comes up and its around the 8 to 12K mark, please let me know, I love to see if I'm ready to buy. Cheers Joseph Image

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Post by zzcoopej » Sun, 12 Apr 2015, 13:10

I bought my 2010 with 20Kkm for $14k, and calculated at $1.50/l doing about 20Kkm/yr the entire purchase price would be saved in 5 years vs our petrol car. If you are already paying $1.70/l that comes down to about 4 years assuming you can charge overnight on off-peak rates.
My only worry would be the higher average temp in Darwin reducing the life of the battery however 4year payback is not going to be a problem.
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Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 17:03

Richo wrote:
cr12330 wrote:I want like to use this car for ... pleasure
You the man Image
But I doubt the back seat is thaat comfy.
Has anybody tested the iMiev for back seat shenanigans?
Image

No comment.....

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 18:11

I don't think you will be picking one up for 8k anytime soon. Considering they were a 50k+ car new. I think they will find a price point where they level off for a while as they just have value in the savings offered vs driving a small ICE car. 14-15k is about it for now.

+ one on people not wanting to sell them off once they pick one up. They will hang onto them as a 2nd car or pass them on to children. Sure the odd one will come up but it wont be like trying to find a mazda 3 for sale.

As for price on replacement battery packs. I don't know of anyone in any part of the world who has a firm price on a OEM replacement bank. Or if they would even come to the party and give you a option to purchase one. If you were after a replacement due to normal age/mileage related degradation. I have only ever read of a few being replaced under warranty due to failure.

I'm still struggling to pick any range loss at all on my 2012 purchased new. Now with around 20k on it. I have logs from day one. Though I do see a very noticeable difference between summer and winter (ambient temps play a role in battery capacity) Typically down 5%- 8% by mid winter and then gain it back again in summer.

My view is mileage doesn't play a big part in how well a 2nd hand Imiev will perform. As it seems there are Imievs with 75k that have similar capacity to cars with under 20k. I feel how you cycle the cells and even more so how store the cells will have a bigger impact. Heat is a killer!

Dead cells is just bad luck and is very rare.

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Post by mikedufty » Thu, 30 Apr 2015, 20:29

I think the glut from the end of the 2010 lease is just about over. None in WA anymore, carsales seems to show 3 left in NSW around $16,000, everything else is over 20K. May be a good idea to get in soon if anyone is after a cheap one.
On the other hand, cars do always eventually get cheaper, and red book are suggesting 13-15k private sale value, so they may not go up in price, just be harder to find.

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Post by antiscab » Fri, 01 May 2015, 17:40

mikedufty wrote:
On the other hand, cars do always eventually get cheaper, and red book are suggesting 13-15k private sale value, so they may not go up in price, just be harder to find.


It may take some time to get cheaper - The original insight for instance stayed above $20k for more than 10 years - pretty much until EV's started hitting the scene

iMiev's probably won't become available in quantity second hand again until another affordable EV is available
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 01 May 2015, 18:28

The issue I see with the Imiev is the 2010'S are already 5 years old and in a few years (say 2 or 3) they will be 7-8 years old.

Given the battery might only be good for say 10 years you might be purchasing a car with only 2 years usable life in it (with practical range) With uncertainty of any options at all to replace the battery.

If your not the DIY type that would dive into retrofitting some kind of aftermarket cells (if available) or try and find a salvaged Imiev pack from a more current model (almost impossible in AU) There might not be much value in the car.

The question is what effect calender aging in our hot environment will have on the cells or how many years before its a noticeable issue. A car with a already short range from new quickly becomes useless if it loosed 1/3 - 1/2 of it.

Kurt
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Post by cr12330 » Sat, 02 May 2015, 01:43

I know I might not get one for $8000 but I know the price will come down in September when the 5 year warranty will expire. As well my thought of buying it from Japan, which is still an option - http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/php/sea ... d=10401038
So many i-miev to pick from and cheapest is only $8500 Australian dollars for a 2010 model base grade.
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Post by zzcoopej » Sat, 02 May 2015, 01:53

I hear Ryde have only 2 of their 20 or so iMiEV still available. Sounds like word got out....
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Post by reecho » Sat, 02 May 2015, 04:30

cr12330 wrote: I know I might not get one for $8000 but I know the price will come down in September when the 5 year warranty will expire. As well my thought of buying it from Japan, which is still an option - http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/php/sea ... d=10401038
So many i-miev to pick from and cheapest is only $8500 Australian dollars for a 2010 model base grade.


But you can't buy these cars from Japan and import them here....

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Post by cr12330 » Thu, 07 May 2015, 19:01

Thank you, I read some thing you said on the general discussion page, I wish those Japanese second hand car website shouldn't lead people in thinking they could get a car here, its gets your hopes up.

On other subject, since I live in Darwin, would it be worth me buying a 2012 i-miev if one become available or 2010 model instead. Being Hot and Humid an 2010 running the air con would be save to say it would have a range of 90km and the 2012 would have a range of 120km?

As well would have have to get a sparky to come around to give me a 15A plug? I've got a garage which the power hasn't worked in it since 1990 and i'm looking to get a sparky to look at it and supply power points, expensive to do so?

I was reading buying the 2012 i-miev would have less issues with the plug in cables? I'm not sure if it worth buying anything on Jaycar.

Thanks

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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 10 May 2015, 04:25

The 2012 charge cable electronics won't pull more than 10A but they put a 15A plug on it....
The 2010 pulls around 13A when empty.

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Post by zzcoopej » Sun, 10 May 2015, 13:25

Post removed in case it misleads anyone.
Last edited by zzcoopej on Mon, 11 May 2015, 09:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by coulomb » Sun, 10 May 2015, 15:42

zzcoopej wrote: ... I don't see how it can pull 13A from empty?

A 10 A breaker won't trip instantly on 10.1 A, or even on 13 A. Fortunately, 10 A cable doesn't burst into flames instantly at 13 A either. Depending on the "curve" of the breaker, it might take half an hour to break at 13 A, by which time the charge current might have reduced to 11 A, which might extend the time the breaker will hold on to perhaps 45 minutes, by which time the charge current might be at or below 10 A, so it will hold on for many hours.

There are also variations in the chargers and in the breakers; you might have been lucky to get a combination that almost always works for you.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 10 May 2015, 16:01

10 seconds monitoring it with a simple inline power meter will give you the answer and more details if you observe it over a full charge.

I would have thought the charger would pull it's full potential for the bulk of the charge 80 - 90% of it no matter where you start from under that %. Not just a short time when it's empty as some are indicating. I would expect it to be pulling 13.3A until the cells got to the beginning of the upper knee and started to require less current.

Both year model Imiev's use the same 3200w charger (13.33A). The only difference being the 2010 models send a pilot signal edit: (actually no EVSE on the 2010 so I guess it's just preset) to the charger to start at 13.3A vs the 2012's (stock EVSE) sends a pilot signal to start at just (9.16A)

Personally watching my Imiev while on charge it's not until the last 60 min or perhaps even less of its charge befor it starts to taper off.

I most likely have a graph of it somewhere logged from Canion that shows the curve.

Kurt
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Post by zzcoopej » Sun, 10 May 2015, 21:16

Post removed in case it misleads anyone.
Last edited by zzcoopej on Mon, 11 May 2015, 09:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by zzcoopej » Sun, 10 May 2015, 21:19

coulomb wrote: you might have been lucky to get a combination that almost always works for you.


There are a number of iMiEV and other EV owners that use the Jaycar device on a regular basis, and I've yet to hear a single report of any issues with either the Jaycar device or wiring etc.
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