10 Amp charging

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LauraiMiEV
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10 Amp charging

Post by LauraiMiEV » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 02:44

Sorry about flooding the forum with newbie questions but I've spent a lot of time reading posts and my head is spinning.

If I rig up some sort of adapter (female 15 Amp one end, male 10 Amp the other with a tiny bit of cable between) so I can put my 15 amp plug into a normal 10 amp wall socket to allow my EVSE to charge at a parking garage or a friend's house or wherever, what risk am I running? Will I burn my friend's house down? Blow the fuse and darken a shopping centre? Or will it just take longer to top up my low battery?

Is there a 10A charger on the market?

I have a 15A charger at home but have learned in the 2 weeks that I've owned my iMiEV that this isn't a common occurrence and I'd like a back up plan for if I'm out and get into trouble.

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10 Amp charging

Post by Feng » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 06:49

Hi Laura. I spotted my first i-MiEV in the wild earlier in the week heading west on Milperra Rd. Was that you?

I think your EVSE is the same as the one in a LEAF, both are made by Panasonic. It has a 15A plug but only draws 10A so you should be able to buy one of these and charge anywhere on a 10A outlet as long as the circuit doesn't get overloaded: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS4044.

Alternatively you can buy a Volt EVSE for ~$350 which is 10A and doesn't need an adapter.
Last edited by Feng on Fri, 28 Nov 2014, 19:50, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Amp charging

Post by LauraiMiEV » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 14:40

That wasn't me. I wonder who it is and if I'll pass them and wave some day. I have not yet seen one in the wild myself (unless you count me looking at my hubby driving out of the shed).

I've looked at that Jaycar thing and my hubby informs me that it won't work (though it's shown up on the forum a few times). It basically has a circuit breaker which trips if you try to pull more than 10 A. So, if the iMiEV is trying to charge at say 13A the circuit breaker will cut you off and your charge will stop. If you're pulling 10A or less it lets you continue but then you don't need it anyway.

The plan now is to borrow a clamp meter and see what are charger is actually drawing.

I would like to buy a travel cord so I don't have to unplug my home one anytime I plan to drive more than 100km. Is the Volt EVSE the cheapest option? If it's 10A that kills 2 birds with one stone.


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10 Amp charging

Post by Feng » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 15:34

The car can draw 13A if it's available but the supplied EVSE only delivers around 10A.

The Volt EVSE is the cheapest and easiest option if you only need to charge at 10A. I have one mounted at home and use the Jaycar adapter at work with the supplied EVSE and both options work fine for me.
Last edited by Feng on Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 04:34, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Amp charging

Post by coulomb » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 15:52

LauraiMiEV wrote: The plan now is to borrow a clamp meter and see what are charger is actually drawing.

Good idea. But be aware that you need to get the clamp around just one of the mains wires (active or neutral, not earth). Just putting the clamp meter around the whole cord will read zero. Obviously, this isn't convenient.

It might be easier to borrow a plug-in power meter, but you'll probably need a 15 A to 10 A adapter cord for that too.
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10 Amp charging

Post by LauraiMiEV » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 16:00

Feng wrote: The car can draw 13A if it's available but the supplied EVSE only delivers around 10A.


So why oh why does the charger which only draws 10A have a 15A plug making it MUCH more difficult to find places to plug in?

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Post by Feng » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 16:08

Probably so people won't do stupid things like plug the EVSE into a power board along with their microwave and fridge.

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Post by LauraiMiEV » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 16:10

Feng wrote: Probably so people won't do stupid things like plug the EVSE into a power board along with their microwave and fridge.


Dear God please protect me from agencies trying to protect stupid people. They make my life so much more difficult. Down with the Nanny State - give me a 10A plug!

Image

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Post by LauraiMiEV » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 16:22

Okay, this guy says his car was pulling 12A during charging, not 9A which becomes a bit more of a problem. http://www.caradvice.com.au/111080/mits ... -review-2/


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10 Amp charging

Post by antiscab » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 16:59

LauraiMiEV wrote: Okay, this guy says his car was pulling 12A during charging, not 9A which becomes a bit more of a problem. http://www.caradvice.com.au/111080/mits ... -review-2/


All iMiev's have a charger that *can* draw 15A

the older 2010 iMiev wasn't J1772 compliant, meaning it would just charge as fast as possible regardless of what it was plugged in to

the newer 2012 iMiev *is* J1772 compliant - this means that when it is plugged into a 10A EVSE (which the charge cord the car comes with is, even though it has a 15A plug) it will only draw 10A

personally I didn't bother with an adapter - I just changed the plug on my portable EVSE to a 10A plug.

Actually, I bought a 25M heavy duty 10A extension lead with 2.5mm2 wire inside, cut the female end of it off, and hardwired it to the EVSE brick.
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10 Amp charging

Post by LauraiMiEV » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 17:13

Who knew that when I bought an electric car I'd be also enrolling in a sparky apprenticeship Image

I'm getting pretty confident that I can rig up something that won't burn down a friend's house if I beg for a bit of electricity. Thanks.

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Post by reecho » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 17:32

It's a non issue really. Think about all the power points that are double 10A in your house. In theory you could pull 10A a side at the same time and all is dandy. My 2010 pulls just under 13 amps (as Matt says) but never had an issue drawing off a 10A supply using a home made adaptor. IF having 10 amp plugs on the EVSE is more convienient for you get it changed, and add some cable length while you are at it...

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10 Amp charging

Post by rhills » Sat, 29 Nov 2014, 17:57

I agree there's no technical reason you can't just change over to a 10A plug and add some cable.

However, if the friend's house happens to burn down while you're plugged in because little Johnny was playing with matches out the back, you know who they'll blame, don't you!

EVs are still very new to the great unwashed and there are lots of myths about them. Some people who know a little about it are going to worry when they see you plug your home-made 10A plug in to charge.

I take my role as an EVangelist quite seriously and part of that is ensuring things look kosher. Hence I'd recommend getting the Volt EVSE or the Jaycar unit. I have the latter (albeit for our Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV), have used it dozens of times for a full charge and haven't had it cut out on me yet. I plan to get the Volt unit soon though because fiddling with the extra plugs is a pain at times and like you, I'd prefer to have a charger that lives in the car.
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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 19:20

My 2010 I have monitored extensively while charging.
Plugged in with a low battery it pulls 13A for a little while which slowly ramps down to around 10-11 then the fuller it gets the lower it draws, finishing off on just a couple of amps.
I made an adapter cable with a 10A plug one end and a weather proof screw lock 15A one the other end, never had any problems and never blew a fuse or anything like that.
I've done almost 20,000km and only charged from a 15A socket once...
My wife's 2012 has the proper EVSE black box and only pulls 10A so we have had no qualms about using an adapter with it...

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10 Amp charging

Post by LauraiMiEV » Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 19:38

It looks like Mitsubishi discovered the error of their ways with the 2010 model and toned the draw down for the 2012. I'm getting more and more confident about the 2012 being perfectly safe with a 10A converter. That said, we're going to get a Volt charger which actually has a 10A plug on the end (or so we believe). This will be the charger we carry all the time in the car - with an extension cord. The 15A iMiEV charger will live at home next to the 15A socket.

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Post by antiscab » Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 22:03

LauraiMiEV wrote:That said, we're going to get a Volt charger which actually has a 10A plug on the end (or so we believe). This will be the charger we carry all the time in the car - with an extension cord.


Make sure your 2010 is modded to accept a proper EVSE, otherwise it just won't work (charge current will go to 13A, and the holden EVSE will disconnect because the charger is drawing more than the 10A that the cable has commanded)

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Post by Gabz » Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 22:22

doesn't she have a 2012 ?
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Post by antiscab » Mon, 08 Dec 2014, 02:15

ah, in that case a holden EVSE will work just fine :D
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Post by LauraiMiEV » Mon, 08 Dec 2014, 02:57

Yes she does Image and yes it should
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Post by Feng » Mon, 08 Dec 2014, 15:22

If you're ever around Bexley you're welcome to test your car on my Volt EVSE.

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Post by LauraiMiEV » Mon, 08 Dec 2014, 22:04

Feng wrote: If you're ever around Bexley you're welcome to test your car on my Volt EVSE.


What a generous offer - thanks! I'll let you know if we're planning to come to your area.


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Post by g4qber » Tue, 09 Dec 2014, 04:31

I just bought Holden 10 amp evse for use when I do karaoke at Morley ale house
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 09 Dec 2014, 16:26

A quick attempt to explain how your Imiev charges.

The (charger) big silver aluminum box about 30cm x 30cm x 20cm is actually on board your Imiev. It sits above the motor and transmission in rear of your imiev, just under the luggage compartment floor. This battery charger takes the 240v mains AC power and converts it to roughly 360v DC to charge your cars traction battery.

The on board charger has a Max output of (3200w) though it's a variable power charger so it can charge at any rate from essentially 1w to 3200w.

What tells the onboard charger the rate to charge at is the smarts in the little plastic brick that's inline with your (charging cable) that you plug into your wall outlet called a (EVSE) The EVSE (charge cable) that is supply with the Imiev in AU is fix to send a signal to the on board charger in the car telling it to charge at no more than 2200w (just under 10A)

So esentualy they have put a 15A plug on it but programed it to govern the charger at 2200w (under 10A)

Some of the fixed charging stations or aftermarket EVSE will send a signal to your on board charger to charge at its full output 3200w. Other aftermarket EVSE cables are even user adjustable say 1200w, 2200w, 3200w with a button on the plug.

So your Imieve using the stock evse will never draw more than roughly 2200w (just under 10A) from your power outlet. So technically it's perfectly safe to run it from a 10A outlet as it's with its ratting. Though because it comes fitted with a 15A plug then legally you need to be using a 15A socket and dedicated circuit.

I think why they fit the EVSE with a 15A plug is to ensure you are more likely to have a adequate feed to the charger.(as in adequate for 10A) Old homes where their wiring for there 10A outlets might be not the best and even a continuous 9-10A - 2200w load for 5 or 6hrs could bring out the short comings in the wiring.

I have a little pigs tail 10cm long 15A-10A plug adapter that I carry in the car if I should ever need it though I haven't yet. though as mentioned above on a technicality I don't think its legal to do so.

I think legaly the only way to do it would be to use a EVSE that came with a 10A plug (yes it's totally silly as the Imiev's evse is only 10A to) but some rules are very broad and you get silly situations like this under them.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 09 Dec 2014, 05:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sat, 10 Jan 2015, 01:15

If it helps for confidence: I have a 2012 iMiEV. I routinely use the Mitsubishi EVSE with its 15A plug into a short adaptor cable 15A to 10A, using 1.5mm2 (15A) cable. I have that left in place on a dedicated circuit in the carport for the last year. On occasions charging away from home I use a Volt charger with its 10A plug. Also works fine.
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10 Amp charging

Post by g4qber » Sat, 10 Jan 2015, 16:47

new owner doesn't want people charging at Magic Car Wash near the Morley Ale House.
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