I-MiEV oops almost ran out

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Hippie403
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by Hippie403 »

Had my first trip planning failure in my i-MiEV. I had a funeral to attend, about a 100km round trip from Bacchus Marsh to Altona North via the back roads. I decided the i-MiEV would make it as long as I didn't drive too fast.
The i-MiEV was fully charged and showing 125km on the RR meter.
On the outbound leg I kept speed below 90km/h on the 100km/h stretches and a bit below the limit in the 60/80 km/h zones.
Arrived at Altona with only 6 bars and 45km on the RR meter.
Oops!

What I hadn't counted on was the strong headwind.

Would I get home? I decided to give it a go. Drove at 50km/h as much as I could.
11km to go and no bars left and the RR was blank. Turtle light hadn't come on
yet. I pulled into the local gliding club airfield and put the car on charge
for a few hours from a 15A outlet in the gliding club workshop. This wasn't
really part of the plan.

I think the wind direction had changed and I was getting headwind on the return leg
too.

So I only managed 90km range on a full charge in these conditions.

Really wasn't expecting this. Previous long trips with some high speed running I'd been getting 80km on 11 bars

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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by Adverse Effects »

opps but it all worked out in the end
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by offgridQLD »

Wind can be a real challenge. Good to see you had a backup.

I once set out on my regular 105km trip and forgot my EVSE Image I was well over the 1/2 way point. I just hyper miled back home and was surprised I made it back fine. Pain the the bum having to hang around for 6hrs before I could get going again though. Set off the next morning ..take two Image

Now my wife nags me every time we set off "have you got the EVSE" yes "are you sure" yes!

Mind you it didn't help with me playing practical jokes feathering the accelerator and saying "that's it it wont go any more its empty" panic look her face subsides as we drive of normally Image

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 15 Oct 2014, 12:00, edited 1 time in total.
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by g4qber »

has anyone else run out totally like I did a long time ago on trip to Northam?
Headwind + Greenmount Hill
106.5km

http://api.plugshare.com/view/recargo/10369

not sure if I will be able to do Northam now cos battery seems to charge at times to 96.5%

probably have to do what Craig C did
ie. 60kmh all the way.

I can tell that there is something difference cos the first mark goes off in about 4-5km vs 6-7km.

Hippie403, I presume you were charging at 10A using the standard imiev EVSE?
Last edited by g4qber on Wed, 15 Oct 2014, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by Hippie403 »

g4qber wrote:

Hippie403, I presume you were charging at 10A using the standard imiev EVSE?
Yes standard Mistsu brick.
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by Peter C in Canberra »

offgridQLD wrote: ...Now my wife nags me every time we set off "have you got the EVSE" ...
Kurt

I have a Volt charge cable that lives in the back of the iMiEV just in case. It is rather nice for having a handle, provision for the cable to wrap neatly around the box, a 10A plug fitted at the factory, and much cheaper than the Mitsubishi charge cable. I believe it charges just the same as the iMiEV cable taking just under 10A from the wall.
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by offgridQLD »

Yes probably a smart idea Peter. The volt EVSE did look like a nice looking unit for the price.

A 2nd EVSE has been on the cards from day one ....just holding off for the magic adjustable charge rate 1A - 16A at a reasonable price Image Would be great for my upcoming 5kwh EV jerrycan project.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 16 Oct 2014, 09:30, edited 1 time in total.
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I-MiEV oops almost ran out

Post by Johny »

Hippie403 wrote:What I hadn't counted on was the strong headwind.
What may have contributed is the temperature when you charged and set off for the trip. Temperature has a big effect on mine and LiFePO4 is supposed to be more temp. resilient than the LiMnCO of the iMiev. What day was your drive - I'll check the temps. just out of interest.
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Post by Hippie403 »

Trip was Tuesday 14th October.
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Post by g4qber »

acmotor also suggests recording other weather conditions
eg. barometric pressure
wind direction

it can also be handy to use
http://jurassictest.ch/GR/

there also seems to be an app on android
"EV Range Calculator"

could be amazing if/when google incorporates this information for Australia.
Last edited by g4qber on Fri, 17 Oct 2014, 03:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Peter C in Canberra »

What this thread exemplifies is that even with an ordinary 10A input (albeit via and overkill 15A plug) you get a useful amount of charge in not all that long. A perennial question from the public when we do shows is 'How long does it take to charge?'. In years of driving a DIY converted car with less range, and now also an iMiEV with a massive 100km, I can say it has never been relevant how long it would take to charge from near empty to full. What matters is that you can get a useful amount in an hour or two. The car does not need to be completely full again before you can go out again to run some more errands. Most trips require much less than a full charge.
The complete charge time would only matter for long road trips. For now our EVs are our town cars. We retain a petrol car for long trips. A friend has only an iMiEV but he has an arrangement with a nearby relative to swap cars if he needs a long range petrol car for trips out of town.
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Post by Johny »

True Peter. People seem obsessed with "filling it up" - I guess that's what almost always happens at a petrol station. I have taken to telling folk that the Vogue charges at a rate of 15km/hr. If they look puzzled I can explain it easily. NiCad battery chemistry has foggied the rechargable battery picture also and will take some time for people to forget battery "memory".
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Post by karlg »

I have had my iMiEV for over 3 years now, and definitely had battery anxiety on occasion.

The last one was before I even knew about turtle mode!

I got the car home on zero bars and thought I'd see what happened when if I ran out, so I turned everything up and tried going up and down the driveway lots of times, to no effect.

I even went around the block a few times without result.

I eventually gave up.

Conclusion: there is a lot more energy in those batteries than the car is telling you about.

Disclaimer: this is just my personal experience, so don't blame me if you run out!!!

Karl
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Post by Johny »

Hippie403 wrote: Trip was Tuesday 14th October.
That cans that theory. Nothing special about that day in Victoria. Low 8 high 14 or 15 - same as most days around this time of year. Is is a point though. I can get the same projected range for days on end then suddenly drop 10km due to a few sudden stops and different traffic flow.

Another observation. I get my best range on roads and trips that I travel the most. Slightly unfamiliar trips get me the worst range.
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Post by Hippie403 »

karlg wrote: Conclusion: there is a lot more energy in those batteries than the car is telling you about.

Disclaimer: this is just my personal experience, so don't blame me if you run out!!!

Karl


I have read reports that turtle mode is good for about 10km with healthy i-MiEV pack. Since I had 11km to go I'm glad a charging option was available.
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Post by offgridQLD »

While I tend to agree that questions regarding recharge time are in most cases a mute point. It's the same for range as most most people in the city actually wouldn't have even calculated how little they drive each day and just automatically assume 100km is some kind of massive restriction on them (when they actually only drive 15km a day Image ) and there big trip way across the other side of town into the outer suburbs is only 65km return.

That said I will say the 5- 6 hr charge time from 20% soc to full has tripped me up a few times. It's often when I only have the imiev at home (so no other transport option) and I get a call from some one inviting me to something or a pick up window of time for something on the other side of town . As it happens I have just got back from a trip and the car is 30% soc. A little strange saying give me 3hrs I'm charging my car in this fast paced world we live in.

It's no trouble over night (wake up car is full) even days when I have planned several outings I can do a midday top up.

Or other situations like Friday nights when we drive 105km up the coast each weekend. I need 100% soc to make it their with 20% SOC (self imposed cut of rule) A few times my wife has called from the city (10km away) saying oh my bus hasn't come can you come pick me up? Sure I can but then we will need to hang around for 1 1/2 hrs while the car tops up to 100% and balances again. That way we would get away until 9:30pm arriving 11:00pm ...not ideal.

I guess in all It just takes a little forward thinking and taking charge time into consideration. Not a hard thing when your planning your own day and I really haven't been restricted or inconvenienced by it though as I said above when things happen out of the blue that you cant plan for it can trip you up.

I have always said that fast DC charges need to go a good 50 - 80km out of the CBC and I still think the same but there is a small case for a few in the cbd as it would be nice to be able to say yes to A unexpected invite across town (and a low soc car at the time) and be able to say "see you soon" just pop into the fast charger for a 15 min blast of DC and it's happy days rather than twiddling thumbs while your 10A charge trickles in the juice trying to calculate when you can pull the plug and still make it there and back.

The Imiev 10A 2200w charger puts into the battery about 1.7kwh of stored energy after system and charging losses and I consume on average 100whr/km (from battery) so roughly 17km of driving potential - 1hr of charge.

Kurt


Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 17 Oct 2014, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gabz »

explaining 0%-100% charge time seems to get a negative response so i've moved to 2 hours charging increase.

i.e.

with the LEAF 2 hours would only give you 30% but it's 10% more than using the supplied cable that comes with the car.
table below is based on 2 hours of charging i-meiv has a smaller battery bmw i3 has a faster charger built into the car.

Image
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Post by offgridQLD »

The problem with that is the Imiev charger only consumes 2200w and with all losses (system on loads, coolant pump, charger inefficacy) The actual input into the battery is only around 1700w.

So 3.4kwh - 2hrs. or around 21%

That said you never get to use the full 16kwh and typically on a new or near new (healthy battery) Imiev the 16 reference bars on the dash gauge roughly work out to 1kwh - bar of AC charge from the wall....roughly!

Kurt



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Post by Gabz »

I know the figures are rough but it got the idea across.

have you noticed that a higher rated EVSE seems to get you better efficiency ?
only charge at 3kW in the odd times I use the public charging but it seems to be more efficient looking at the canon rate vrs the actaul amps pulled.
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Post by offgridQLD »

Yes they sure do. I think most of it is to do with the (system on)loses to charge rate ratio being a smaller ratio the faster you charge because the(system on)loses are constant.

Perhaps there is some slight efficiency sweet spot in the charger it's self to though I don't know.

Kurt

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Post by Peter C in Canberra »

Johny wrote: NiCad battery chemistry has foggied the rechargable battery picture also and will take some time for people to forget battery "memory".

That's true. Quite often people when people look sceptical when I describe my usage patterns and why it is rarely relevant how long it takes to fill from empty, I realise they are worried about memory effect. Once I think to mention there is no memory effect with Li chemistries they look much more accepting of what I am saying.
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Post by 4Springs »

Peter C in Canberra wrote: Quite often people when people look sceptical when I describe my usage patterns and why it is rarely relevant how long it takes to fill from empty, I realise they are worried about memory effect. Once I think to mention there is no memory effect with Li chemistries they look much more accepting of what I am saying.

You guys must have better educated people around than I do. I've had quite a few assuming that I have to change the batteries like it uses a couple of AAs!
I've settled on the "1 hour gives 10km" line when it comes to charging.
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Post by Peter C in Canberra »

4Springs wrote:
Peter C in Canberra wrote: Quite often people when people look sceptical when I describe my usage patterns and why it is rarely relevant how long it takes to fill from empty, I realise they are worried about memory effect. Once I think to mention there is no memory effect with Li chemistries they look much more accepting of what I am saying.

You guys must have better educated people around than I do. I've had quite a few assuming that I have to change the batteries like it uses a couple of AAs!
I've settled on the "1 hour gives 10km" line when it comes to charging.

I have been noticing distinct changes in the questions over time since I started doing this 6 years ago. I like to think I may have played a small part in that education. Now I get people telling me about White Zombie or Tesla. Fewer people saying that hydrogen is the way of the future. Far fewer people arguing that EVs are worse than petrol and just move the pollution to the coal power station; far more understanding about greenpower and how it works, more general acceptance that the grid will be predominantly renewable (90% in the ACT), far fewer assuming golf cart performance, far more knowing about flat torque from zero revs, no more jokes about needing a long extension cord, fewer people telling me about the world-wide conspiracy to hush up the water powered car, far fewer telling me how I could keep running for ever by running a generator off the back wheels or sticking a wind turbine up into the air flow.
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Post by Hippie403 »

I have reassured myself that it really was just the wind causing me problems rather than a developing fault with the i-MiEV. Just made a 88km trip with 4 bars remaining instead of only making 90km of 100km trip with no bars remaining.
Last edited by Hippie403 on Tue, 28 Oct 2014, 07:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by g4qber »

Hippie403 what speed were you doing ?
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