Malm, 2011 i-MiEV, Portugal

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Malm
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Post by Malm » Mon, 19 May 2014, 08:05

Searching for someone who has made more then 200 km with one charge, made 175 km of mRR, saw frequently one 5% bar going away at middle charge last year, believes that lost a little more then 15% of the original capacity, now with 66666 km in the i-MiEV odometer. Do you know someone that matches with that???

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Post by Malm » Mon, 19 May 2014, 08:07

Malm, a Noobie??? Image

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Post by acmotor » Mon, 19 May 2014, 16:38

Hey, welcome to the AEVA forum Malm !!!

I think you have the highest km on a private iMiEV at 66666km !
There is a YouTube video of 221 km range
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zqSLNX3WlHY

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Post by jonescg » Mon, 19 May 2014, 16:42

acmotor wrote: There is a YouTube video of 221 km range


That could be a very long video Image
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 19 May 2014, 20:28

Even longer if it had been an ebike Image
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Post by me68 » Mon, 19 May 2014, 22:07

Hello Malm!

It's not clear to me which information you'll read out from a trip with more then 200km. That somebody has a lot of time to drive so slow to consume less then 75Wh/km average without charging?

If you want to check your battery capacity i'll recommend to make a trip from 100%SoC to a very low SoC running caniOn. You see the needed energy and can calculate the battery capacity at your own.

I have done this on saturday with our C-Zero.

The trip was over 123,2km ending with 2% SoC. Energy consumed: 16.056Wh - 1.356Wh = 14.700Wh (98%). So 100% are 14.700Wh / 0,98 = 15.000Wh, the battery capacity available for usage (at 18°C average battery temp).

You can also check the energy conversion efficiency from energy input to output then on loading the battery to 100% afterwards. I have done this with the 10A-ICCB. Measured with a Ferraris energy meter: 17.700Wh.

So the energy conversion efficiency (efficiency discharging, efficiency inverter, efficiency charging) is 14.700Wh / 17.700Wh = 83,1%.

Image

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Image

Image

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Post by Malm » Mon, 19 May 2014, 22:38

I also find one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baAiN2jFEcc

201,4 km with 3 bars left. That's better then doing 220 km and ending with no energy.

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Post by Malm » Mon, 19 May 2014, 22:45

me68 = Martin. You and Xavier, your work with Canion opened my eyes to the underground of my i-MiEV. This is dedicated to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkB2TG-gsvU

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Post by g4qber » Tue, 20 May 2014, 00:49

what do the red bars mean?
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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 01:23

Red bars means energy consumed by the heater. The amout of Wh spent in heating the interior of the car. Don't use it and you will never see red in the Canion.

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Post by me68 » Tue, 20 May 2014, 01:23

It's the energy consumption of the heater.

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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 07:52

From my experience, I think that the 2% SoC are not correctly evaluated by the car. With that voltage, SoC should be higher, maybe 7%. I think the car, when we drive at high speed, will give us a SoC that is less then the real SoC. But when we drive at very low speeds, it will do the opposite, and will give us a SoC that is higher then the real SoC. So, Martin, your test would give a very different result, if the speed used was 50 km/h instead 120.

But your car, Martin, is excellent for one with 40.000 km.
Last edited by Malm on Mon, 19 May 2014, 23:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 20 May 2014, 14:03

Malm,

"made 175 km of mRR,"

I am assuming the mRR is (miles range remaining)?

If so I am sure you can make the RR gauge say anything you like. As it just uses the last 25km driven to predict the future RR. One could roll down a 25km hill and get a very large RR number.

ME68,
     I to appreciate your canion tests. Bringing up the turtle at 10.5% and then driving it in turtle mode down to 2%. I would like to compare my Canion numbers but I dont want to turtle my Imiev and really don't want to be taking it a further 8% down to shutdown SOC.

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Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 20 May 2014, 04:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 14:33

mRR - maximum range remaining

OffgridQLD, yes you can get a very large RR number if you could run down a 25km hill, but 175 km will be possible only for a limited number of us. You can try to do that, get 175 km mRR, but probably it will be impossible for you. I drive mode turtle to 0,0% with my worst cell above 3,5V, so not taking any risk of damaging them. A cell can go to a minimum of 2,75 V.
Last edited by Malm on Tue, 20 May 2014, 04:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 20 May 2014, 14:40

My point was while the RR high score might be a fun number to play with it has little value in the real world.

Yes I'm sure running the battery down to BMS cut off won't kill it . though if you want to baby your battery for longest life its best avoided.

Kurt

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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 14:57

offgridQLD wrote: My point was while the RR high score might be a fun number to play with it has little value in the real world.

Yes I'm sure running the battery down to BMS cut off won't kill it . though if you want to baby your battery for longest life its best avoided.

Kurt


Yes, just played with the RR high score and aware what it means in the real world, I can do larger distances, but usually can't do more then 120 km.

BMS cut off can happen with 320 total voltage or 280 total voltage. That is not the same thing. I can show you both with my car.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 20 May 2014, 15:03

Yes but one cell would have dipped below the cut off voltage.

Though I agree that the soc indicates on the 16 bar instrument cluster gauge could be effected by load. High load say 120kph driving vs 50kph can effect how it determons SOC. It,s not perfect.

Kurt
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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 20 May 2014, 15:09

One thing I didn't give much attention to is cold weather. I live in a warm climate (subtropical qld Australia) so winter tempretures are very mild. But I do feel there is a slight reduction in range when its cold 15C vs 25-30c. Perhaps only 2-3%.

Kurt
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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 15:19

This time, BMS cut off at 298 V. Other times, depending of the medium speed or other factors, can be at 280 V or even 320 V

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWW5w2e4XU

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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 15:30

offgridQLD wrote: One thing I didn't give much attention to is cold weather. I live in a warm climate (subtropical qld Australia) so winter tempretures are very mild. But I do feel there is a slight reduction in range when its cold 15C vs 25-30c. Perhaps only 2-3%.

Kurt


Yes, not as hot as in Brisbane here, but I agree, 2/3% more between 15C to 25/30C. But what counts, for me, is the battery temperature, not the outside temperature, and usually, after charging, my battery is more then 5º C up compared to the outside temperature.

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Post by me68 » Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:34

Hello Malm!

In my idea how BMS save the battery at low SOC is, that BMS do not observe the system voltage (300 - 360V). It observes the cell voltage (3,4 - 4,1V). If this drop down after a dedicated lowest value it will shutdown the car.

Other BMS observation is probably the batt temp. But i do not see any restriction till now driving the car. The most terrible you can do is driving up or down a hill with a long distance with hight power usage/regen in hot climate. I have no idea which high temperature is a risk for battery lifetime, 50°C, 60°C?

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Post by Malm » Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:47

"In my idea how BMS save the battery at low SOC is, that BMS do not observe the system voltage (300 - 360V). It observes the cell voltage (3,4 - 4,1V). If this drop down after a dedicated lowest value it will shutdown the car." It observes the cell voltage, when a single cell reaches 2,75V (not 3,4 V) it will shutdown the car, and the SoC he thinks he have, at 0,0% it will stop.

"I have no idea which high temperature is a risk for battery lifetime, 50°C, 60°C?" 31º C, 31º C. The car knows that a temperature above 31º C is not good. When one sensor hit 31º C, in a quick charge, the car will then immediately switch on cold air on maximum to the battery. So, avoid getting hotter then that. But in Australia that is not easy.

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Post by me68 » Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:56

Hello Malm!

Regarding battery temps: i checked my btcan.db for min/max values now.

caniOn is always on driving the car, so i have a lot of data in the meantime (235MB, 24.546km, more than 500 hours operation and more than 430 hours cell volts/temps recording - a db-feature not available from the beginning of caniOn).

So starting cell volts/temps recording at 26.7.2013, i checked the btcan.db with following commands:

SELECT * FROM cell_temps where CMU_01_UNIT_1 < 0
SELECT * FROM cell_temps where CMU_01_UNIT_1 > 41

I got some records on 27.1.2014 with -2°C lowest (i do not drive the car the weekend before.

I got some records on 28.7.2013 with 42°C highest.

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Post by me68 » Tue, 20 May 2014, 22:59

Malm wrote:31º C, 31º C. The car knows that a temperature above 31º C is not good. When one sensor hit 31º C, in a quick charge, the car will then immediately switch on cold air on maximum to the battery. So, avoid getting hotter then that. But in Australia that is not easy.


Hello Malm!

I do not think so. 31°C is only a level to activate AC@DCQC. This is lower then human body temperature. It will feel not very warm on touching.

Could you check your btcan.db for highest temp values?


Martin
Last edited by me68 on Tue, 20 May 2014, 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Malm » Wed, 21 May 2014, 02:12

Before I had canion, it is possible that I reached more then 40º C several times. Since I have it, I think this was the highest value, after a quick charge. With a second quick charge, temperatures rapidly went down.

Image


Last edited by Malm on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:40, edited 1 time in total.

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