Imiev measured data

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offgridQLD
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Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 15:22

Just thought it would be a good idea to start a fresh thread were we can post our results of test we have done on our Imievs.

This could be measurements form the OBD port through apps like Canion. Perhaps road Performance tests like 1/4 mile, 0-100kph times. Or as simple as taking your car to a weigh bridge and confirming the list weight. Perhaps measure the DB sound level in the car at different speeds. It could be any other relevant data we have collected to better understand our Imiev's.

I will be doing some 0-100kmh tests and 1/4 mile this week while logging it all on a iPhone app that records that kind of performance data along with recording what is going on electrically with the Imiev at the same time, Amps,volts and so on through the cannon android app.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 11:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Imiev measured data

Post by acmotor » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 17:09

Good idea !
Just to leave some bread crumbs back to the genesis of this discussion...viewtopic.php?title=imiev-range-no-disc ... 589#p46413
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offgridQLD
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Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 17:17

I'm just about to go for a drive and log some data. I will try and hold a steady 16kw of regen down a hill and cross check it against canion. Again using the accelerator to modulate Regen I will do the 2nd 1/2 of the hill at 1/2 way on the gauge 8kw and see what The reading are.

Now with out a clamp on the controller wire I cant confirm its linear all the way to the 170A we are seeing on the app but at least it will show it matches the 0 16kw range on the dash.

Perhaps I need to purchase a clamp meter it could come in handy for my DC loads on my house battery. Any suggestions on what to purchase? Preferable one that can run a wire to the clamp so I can see the thing while driving or at least one that can record the data. I see the fluke 381 has a remote display that works up to 30 feet but $450 hmm I don't think I will use it enough to justify that kind of money.

kurt
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Imiev measured data

Post by Johny » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 17:40

offgridQLD wrote:Perhaps I need to purchase a clamp meter it could come in handy for my DC loads on my house battery. Any suggestions on what to purchase?
No remote wire but this cheap one got some support here a while back.
viewtopic.php?title=ok-cheap-dc-clamp-m ... 529#p32081

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offgridQLD
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Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 20:10

Thanks for the link on the clamp meter, I will do some hunting around.


I just went for a drive with canion logging and first of all I think I have the answer to the high regen numbers.

When you just let off the accelerator peddle the regen kw going back into the pack maxes out at around 16-18kw, as the dash gauge suggests. The moment you step on the brakes that initial hard tug that I was putting down to strong power assist on the friction brakes, is actual strong Regen. As soon as you apply the brakes the Regen shoots up Well past the 16kw shown on the gauge. It's not uncommon to see 30 or high 40 kw numbers. I always knew the brake peddle introduced more Regen but hadn't taken note of just how much. It looks to be stronger the harder you push on the peddle to. It's integrated so well with the friction brakes its almost imposable to pick it without a gauge. The brakes are going to last a very long time.

Now for 0-100 and 1/4 mile

I did a 0 -100kmh test and a 1/4 mile test. I sat stationary for a little while to establish a resting voltage. Graphing at a 5 min scale for more detail we start off at 352v at rest and it went as low as 338v before I let of the peddle at the end of the 1/4 mile. You can even see little ripples in the voltage near the end as the speed limiter governs the the power off and on. Image

Voltage graph over the 1/4 mile run (note the ripples at the end due to speed limiter)You can also see the resting voltage 352v before the run then a low of 338v during the run and again when I stopped and parked you have the 352 resting voltage again.
Image

Amps over 1/4 mile run again ripples near the end due to speed limiter.
Image

Speed over 1/4 mile
Image

Accelerator pedal % over 1/4 mile
Image

Now for the times logged by my Iphone app. I had to enter the weight of the car including me and I put down a 0% drive train loss.

Acceleration times
Image


1/4 mile time along with other data (note how it calculated the power at 51kw & doing the math of the volt & AMP reading from canion. 338v x 160A = 54kw and I am sure there would be a few % drive line loss to the ground

Image
Image


So 12.1 seconds for the 0-100 feels about correct to me you loose a good second or two at take off due to the grandma controller take off programming. I think if you could modify this there would be a high 9 - 10 second 0- 100kph in it. Same for the 1/4 mile at 18.5 there is a good second to be gained there. Comparing the numbers to similar sized, style ICE powered shopping trollies. it's as fast if not faster than some.

Image


For some perspective. The 2005 Mitsubishi colt same weight and a similar shape car to the Imiev but with 76kw ICE motor did 0-100kph in the mid 12's.

The 2009 (same year as the Imiev was introduced )Toyota corolla had a 1.8lt motor with 100kw and did 0-100kph in 11.1 seconds.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Imiev measured data

Post by CometBoy » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 20:30

Wow! Interesting helpful data for the i group....

Thanks Kurt!

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Post by Johny » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 20:34

Interesting. Again great data Kurt. I'm interested in the 0.9 seconds for each gain in 10km/h up to just above 50 then it drops off. The Leaf was similar except they started drop off at just over 40km/h preferring to show some "kick" at take-off at the sacrifice of higher speed acceleration.

The Leaf also totally cancelled regen braking in a full panic stop - I guess to place the stability control totally back on the mechanical systems.

The "gramdma" take off may be unavoidable if the magnets in the motor are to be preserved. Direct drive's main disadvantage is that first few km/h.
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Imiev measured data

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 20:47

It could be the same for pannic stopping in the Imiev to . I was just referring to a firm press nothing silly.

After wizzing around in a 30kg recumbent trike 105kg total with me in it with just over 6kw that feels like its going to pick the front wheels up..well perhaps not but the acceleration from 0 to say 30kmh is very aggressive and instantaneous. 105kg x 10 = 1050kg 6kw x 10 = 60kw , ok its a little more power to weight but its sure feels like its got 10x more power. I think the key is its also a single speed but geared to 1/2 the Imiev's top speed. The one gear for all occasions of the Imiev just feels a little to soft for that first 0 - 20kmh or so But it's ok at least I wont break anything in the Imiev or stress the pack to much with spike loads. Just for a laugh i will run the iPhone app on the trike this weekend and compare the 0 - 60km times Image

Kurt
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Imiev measured data

Post by Monkeyboy » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 03:24

Yeah, nice data guys. Definitely concur on that brake regen description.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 03:48

A good way to get a feel for just how much regen is applied when you hit the brake. Try stopping with the shifter in N position that way you know your using just the friction brakes. Then do the same in D mode and it's amazing the difference.

Accelerator lift off regen is relatively tame even in B mode and I guess this makes the car more drivable and is still enough braking to modulate speed in traffic or corners.

Kurt

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Imiev measured data

Post by acmotor » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 05:43

Well done Kurt ! Image
I guess your data logging window answers the extra regen current on braking question. I too have felt the pull on braking and had atributed it to power (excuse the pun) brake function.

14V drop at 156A so 1mohm cell resistance. ((352-338) / 156)/88) respect ! Image   

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Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 18:27

Mine is a 2010 but I don't think I get any regen on brake pedal.
When I touch the brakes lightly I feel nothing.

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Post by Johny » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 18:30

carnut1100 wrote:When I touch the brakes lightly I feel nothing.
It must be your Vulcan parentage - no seriously, the first iMiev I drove had no regen control on the Brake pedal either. Not sure whether it's all 2010s or the the first batch.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 19:08

Carnut1100,
           It could just be that you don't have this feature but try this to make sure. Coast down any hill in D mode in a way that only uses say 1/2 the regen on the Imievs gauge or just something less than full Regen. Then apply some brake. Do you notice the power gauge max out to the left (as in show more Regen) when you use the brake?

My 2012 model pegs the needle to the left on the 16kw Regen gauge as soon as you apply brake.

Kurt

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Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 20:05

Makes no difference on the gauge at all.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 24 Oct 2013, 20:29

I just dug up some more official 0-60mph and 1/4 mile specs for the Imiev to compare to my results to.

0-60 mph: 11.9 seconds (I measured 12.1 though that was to 100kph so just over 62.1mph )

Quarter-mile: 18.7 seconds @ 72.6 mph (I measured 18.53 @ 77.6mph)


One thing I found interesting when searching for 0-100kph times I found several references to the gen 1 2009-2010 Imiev listed at 0-100kph in 9 seconds.

Perhaps the programming is a little more aggressive on the early models. It would be great if this could be tested & confirmed (carnut1100)?. All you need is a android phone or Iphone and you can download free apps to test this.

The heavier US spec Imiev is listed at 15 seconds 0-100kph.

Kurt



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Post by carnut1100 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013, 05:13

I will do some performance testing....which apps do you recommend?
I have android.

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 25 Oct 2013, 13:06

I use the App called Dynolicious for the Iphone. It's a purchased app for a couple of dollars. There are some rubbish ones out there that just use GPS and a timer. They are not accurate. You want one that takes it's measurements from the accelerometers in your phone/tablet.

From memory (DinoDyno) was the name of one for the android. But just check first that it doesn't just use GPS. Anyhow just do a search on google play and read a few reviews.

Tips for getting reasonably accurate results.

* If there is a calibration section in the app use it.

* Make sure the phone/tablet is level (flat) with the screen facing up and alined with the car in a N/W orientation. You want the tug when you accelerate to be pulling it the correct direction

* The phone/tablet has to be fixed in this position any movement or sliding of your phone/tablet will wreck the results.Gaffa tape it to something flat or wedge something under the phone to make it flat/calibrate it and then tape it down.Or use a big blob of blue tack be creative.

Most apps will have a start button you press. Then they will sound or flash a couple of times and say GO!. You don't need to go dead on that signal (its not timing your reaction time) It only starts timer once it detects motion (you could have a coffee first then go makes no difference) Pick a road that is marked as 100kph (keep it legal and safe) You must be stationary first and always traveling in a straight line. Try and find as flat a road as you can. If its not 100% flat do a run in both directions and find the average of the two.

Kurt
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Post by Johny » Fri, 25 Oct 2013, 14:37

Same as Kurt - after trying some acceleration apps that used timer and GPS I gave up on them. I use an Android app called Vibration Monitoring (long story). Besides a graph display of the 3 axis, it outputs a csv file with a time stamp (in mS) and m/s/s for each axis of the accelerometer.
I then use a spreadsheet to convert to elapsed time and speed - subtracting the average rows where I was clearly at standstill etc.
Hmmm. Probably to long way of doing at all...
As Kurt says - wedge the phone/tablet under something.

It's also a great app to show folk why the cheap capacitive accelerometer built into almost every smart phone has contributed so much to the smart phone revolution.

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Post by carnut1100 » Fri, 25 Oct 2013, 22:49

Dinodyno...three runs to 1/8 mile one to 1/4 mile.

All four runs peak g force was 0.48g

1/8 mile was coming up pretty consistently in 13s.
1/4 mile came up in 18 secs.
Pretty basic app, I'll look for a better one and do more runs.

Also my power meter arrived today, time to start logging consumption

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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 25 Oct 2013, 23:24

Ok a bit of a mixed bag of results. 1/8th is slower but 1/4 mile faster yet max G is more. I still think the earlier models are faster 0 - 100kmh just based on the video's I have seen and a few specs sheet.

Did you have to back onto the beach to get a full 1/4 mile in? being Tasmania and all? Image

If your measuring kwh/whr going into the battery my thinking is it gets hard unless your charging to 100% SOC and balanced each time. If your just topping it up small amounts of charge at a time there isn't really any datum to work with other than trying to take note of where the cars fuel gauge was before and after each charge. That defies the point of using the meter to gain more accuracy than the fuel gauge if in the end your still using the fuel gauge.(hope you can follow my logic)

When you charge to 100% the termination point after balancing becomes your datum that you work down from and always have a nice fixed point to work back up to on the next charge.


kurt



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Post by carnut1100 » Sat, 26 Oct 2013, 00:24

Yeah I usually top up overnight but also the logging app I use has a function to note a partial fill/charge and it holds the info over until the next full charge and gives the consumption from full to full.

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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 27 Oct 2013, 01:29

Quoting from the range thread.
acmotor wrote: Can you log and present your trip in the other direction for comparison ?

So regen 800Wh vs 2kWh for that hill each way.
Working with that, see if my reasoning is correct ..... 4.5km x 2 = 9km using trip average of 104Wh/km gives 'equivalent' flat ground energy consumption of .936kWh
Total actually used on hill round trip = 2kWh - .8kWh = 1.2kWh compared to .936kWh that means the hill only used 264Wh on the round trip due to the fantastic regen !
Makes you feel for EV's without regen. Image


I logged the trip up in the other direction on Friday night. Unfortunately I lost the Bluetooth connection about 90% of the way through the trip and had to reset to get it logging again.

Anyhow the good news is I was able to log the consumption to climb the hill at a steady 75kmh and it was spot on 1950 whr.

Tomorrow afternoon I will get exact numbers for Regen rolling down the hill.I modulate regen to hold a steady 75kmh down the hill.We will have a exact recovery number then.

Kurt

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 27 Oct 2013, 01:34

Great !

It will be interesting to see how close to the 264Wh it costs for the hill round trip.

Is the canion logging to SD as well ? can you open the log file ?
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 27 Oct 2013, 01:43

I'm a real android nob I will have a play and see what I can dig up. I think it is , not SD but internal 32gb memory (I think android call this SD by default)

The issue was It was logging fine for the 80km to hill then up hill I took not of the consumption at the bottom an again at the top its about. all was fine. Its about 15km form the top of the hill to my house but about 5 km from our house I looked at the screen and notices it wasn't logging Image so some where from just past the top of the hill to that point it has dropped out.

So there will be a gap in the data.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Mon, 28 Oct 2013, 03:15, edited 1 time in total.

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