iMiEV tyre wear status

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iMiEV tyre wear status

Post by CometBoy » Sat, 07 Dec 2013, 17:10

Should also add....

I’ve had a good look at the front end of the i and can only say WOW!

It is indeed very light duty and certainly would not take much of a curb kiss to put things out of alignment.   

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Post by g4qber » Sat, 07 Dec 2013, 17:49

http://r1.cygnuspub.com/files/cygnus/im ... 954600.jpg

easier to take tyre wear measurements on this imiev
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 07 Dec 2013, 18:35

I guess that was a sad prank j.
... or he could have just loaded the canion app if he wanted to read the cell voltages. Image

yeah nice pics Kurt. Image I'd say that tyre on test was underinflated and not representative of real life latteral traction limits. You can see footage where a i is lifting the rear wheel and the front has started to drift well before that degree of deformation..... mind you, that is on flat ground. edit:
What I am saying is that actual road traction limitation results in side slippage well before the attach angle on that test setup occurs.

re the space saver tyre and ABS, it would have been interesting to have two space savers on front or back and see if the ABS was happy when there was no across axle difference.... Oh wait, that's what the front of the iMiEV has already ! Image

I hear your words Kurt and looking at the wear and compound of my front R tyre as it nears the end of its life I can see there is almost a flow strata pattern from the injection moulding process. Not complaining though, I've had a good run from the little tyre.
Last edited by acmotor on Sat, 07 Dec 2013, 08:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 02:55

Yes I did say it was a extreme example. The machine looked like it could do some very nasty thing to the tyre in the aim of testing. Behond what it would see attached to a car.


I guess what I was getting at is doesn't take much lateral G to skew things enough in a car like the Imiev with its skinny tyres to where the outside would be taking the brunt of the friction in a corner.

The fact we can't rotate our imiev tyres doesn't help to.

I think your choice of 155 is most likely a good compromise. A tad wider with the benefits that brings but fits the stock rim. Shouldn't have to much of a noticeable negative impact on consumption. Or be off sized enough to trigger ABS warnings. Not to mention less expensive than the stock wheel.

Even though I don't really like the look of the stock mags. I'm not keen on throwing to much money at the car if the stock ones do the job To fit a better tyre package I feel a wheel change would be mandatory.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Sat, 07 Dec 2013, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Sun, 08 Dec 2013, 03:37

All points accepted.
I shall be looking closely at energy consumption to see if there is anything to be seen !

It was the inside of the right front only that showed most wear. That had me wondering. Outside I could understand more as you point out.
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Post by acmotor » Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 23:42

Wow !!!

The time had come....
I ordered 2 x continental ecocontac3 in 155x60 R15 from BoB Jane and had them F&B for $130 ea. edit: the dunlop 2030s were quoted at $230 and there was only 1 in Oz !

Image

The running outside is on the right, tread is profiled inside to outside.

Image

Old and new. Note news are on rims at this stage. There is not a lot of visual difference (155 vs 145mm width) and more tread of course.

Image

Front left.

Observations....

Firstly, a detectable change in steering weight (heavier). But very stable. bga and g4qber have both driven my i with these new rim wraps and noticed the change.

A very different sound on the road. Cat's eyes for instance are a dull sound rather than the sharp one of the old front 2030's.

A very plesant tracking and loss of the shopping trolley front wheels feel of the 2030's.

...and the big plus, as Kurt flagged, the iMiEV cross wind dance has gone ! I drove 80km in a blustery cross wind yesterday and had braced myself for the dance... but it didn't happen. Was it that simple ? some decent fronts ? I had blamed the iMiEV aerodynamics of a block of flats for the dance.

OK, so there may be some downside in range (surely it can't all be good) but they are still LRR tyres. I'm logging data to compare with the first 45,000km.
The power steering at low speeds must be working harder ?

I guess I know what type of rears to get when that time comes. Image

edit: the tread depth on the ecocontact3 is 7mm new on the 3 annular grooves.
Last edited by acmotor on Sat, 21 Dec 2013, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by adelaide-ev » Wed, 08 Jan 2014, 23:33

So, AC Motor, if you had known how much better the handling would be, would you have bought these tyres at the beginning?
Having experienced the "cross wind dance" a few times now, and not enjoyed it, I am contemplating changing the fronts regardless.
Worth it?? And have you yet noticed any loss of range?
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Last edited by adelaide-ev on Wed, 08 Jan 2014, 12:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 00:05

While I can see how the new slightly wider tyres might handle a little better than the stock tyres I can't see how they would make that much difference to buffeting insatiability from cross winds and passing cars/trucks.

I can see If the walls are a little stiffer on the new tyres then yes that could reduce how squirmy the car feels when changing direction but a gust of wind and that flat and tall body and skinny track width with soft suspension will result in a dance. Your just being blow off coarse. You can feel the car as a hole being tugged - sucked in one direction then blown in another. Some times it's easy to over react to it via the steering wheel.

The suspension and handling of the Imiev is very average a lot if it is just physics given its dimensions. I guess it's all relative to what you have driven in the past but don't expect great handling.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 08 Jan 2014, 13:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 01:18

Sally, sadly yes, I would have changed the tyres earlier. The dance was the only downside in driveability of the i for me since I do many freeway and country km.

Kurt, I like you considered the aerodynamics to have been responsible for the dance. I now think that the tread design has a lot to do with tracking. I wish you could drive my i now. It is like the day after a flu has gone. You expect the discomfort but it is just not there anymore. Remember I have 45,000km experience in my i and am well in tune with the vehicle's characteristics.

Energy consumption.
I log every run and charge though only 1,000km on new front tyres. I can't see a direct link in energy consumption yet i.e. With resolution 0.1kWh in 10kWh. I'll need more data to see if there is a trend and I'm expecting there is bound to be one.


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Post by adelaide-ev » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 01:37

" sadly yes, I would have changed the tyres earlier"

Well that's a glowing recommendation - I think new tyres are on my "very soon" list!

"I can't see a direct link in energy consumption yet"
acmotor - are you able to compare the first 1000km or 2000km on the old tyres with this first 1000km on the new ones? Assuming it was similar driving and not just the endless "test drives" for friends that my first kms are.

"The suspension and handling of the Imiev is very average a lot if it is just physics given its dimensions"
Kurt - I wasn't expecting a lot really - just keen to maximise what I can. Also realising I can use the i for more country excursions than I expected (like you) and that's where the "cross wind dance" is an issue.

An aside re: handling -I hadn't driven my ice for a month til yesterday and while being aware I would notice the lack of regen (I only drive the i in B mode) when I did jump in the old wagon again it really was such a dramatic difference that I spent the first few kms wondering if the brakes had all but gone. To be fair I was towing a 1 ton trailer but crikey!!! Not fun at all -really feels like you have to stomp on the pedal. Have to be careful not to rear end someone.

So, despite some shortcomings the i is definitely my first choice wherever possible.
Last edited by adelaide-ev on Wed, 08 Jan 2014, 14:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 01:41

Well I will put my opinion on hold for now until I can drive a Imiev with new tread. If not my own when it needs new tyres.

Kurt

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 01:54

Sally, I'm trying to wring something out if the numbers. It must be small.

You are right. The driving is a lot better than when the toy was new. It took about 5,000km to settle in.
Image
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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 06:23

Maybe some better shock absorbers would help also? They might use basic cheap ones.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 06:47

Wait till you've tried the tyres first. But yes, there may be other things to try.
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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 13:05

Can’t believe you are trying to compare the difference between tyres that have done 40,000km with new tyres!

Surely the only comparison should be between the same vehicle with new tyres fitted in turn?

In your case acmotor if you didn’t notice a large improvement I would be very surprised...

"It took about 5,000km to settle in” Image

Just look at the worn (rounding) thread surfaces of your old tyres compared to the nice flatter profile of the new ones. That and stiffer side walls on the new tyres would improve your car greatly.

But I’m with Kurt on reserving any final judgement on a difference at this stage. You could be right....

Anyone with a new i-MiEV know a tyre dealer that can help with a proper test?

I agree with looking closer at the shocks and suspension, could be a good area of discussion in the future, especially when these all start getting up to the 100,000km mark. They certainly do look average. But the stock i-MiEV that ran Pikes Peak a couple of years ago did an amazing job. Apparently it only had the required safety features added in order to do the run.


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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 13:57

Bob Jane here in Adelaide doesn't have the I-MiEV data in their system so this might help..... They normally use a 'TIGHTENING TORQUE" of about 100 n-m for small wheels anyway.

WHEEL_SERVICE_SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

And alignment data is as follows:

FRONT_WHEEL_ALIGNMENT_CHECK_AND_ADJUSTMENT.pdf

Bruce

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 15:29

I think there is no denying the suspension is very basic. Going of my past experience with a 84 civic (torsion bar front end and solid trailing arm rear suspension) So also very basic in its style. I could get it to handle very well on a smooth even surface and it was competitive for auto cross and some hill climbs but high speed on a twisty bumpy county road. Showed the limitations of the suspension style. Where say a later model civic with multiple link fully independent suspension could be set up to handle well under wider range of road conditions.

We are limited in the basic foundations of the Imiev suspension. That said some of the replaceable components like the shocks do look like they were designed with cost in mind. Though I don't see the point in replacing parts you payed for before they have worn out including the tyres. Considering we only have 50kw to play with. Out write high speed performance handling isn't really necessary. Though low speed control and comfort is something to look into.

I do find the rebound control on the front suspension is very average. Speed bumps at low speed make a jarring twang rather than a controlled thud.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 04:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 16:30

The handling of the iMiEV is fine for normal driving and a bit of fun. It never claims to be otherwise. Performance mods would need to start with 80kW.

Bruce, you know full well the crosswind dance, on a brand new iMiEV with brand new 2030s. I have shared the good news on the continentals, best not to rubbish it until you have driven an iMiEV with different rubber.

Maybe spending $ on new tyres would be better value for money than a TPMS ? Image no, go for both. I like the TPMS.

Kurt, I share your thinking on replacing tyres before they are worn out. That is why I delayed the purchase.
In this case though I would have gone with the continentals from day one if I had known the difference. It may be hard for you to understand until you have experienced the change.

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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 17:00

Sorry, absolutely don’t want to rubbish your opinions! You are most likely correct....

Just not sure that is a great way to compare?

I don’t use the i-MiEV much anyway so I’m a poor person to ask about handling.

BTW what took 5,000km to settle in? Just confused about that statement??

Bruce

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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 17:06

So if you don't use yours much, why are you trying to argue the point with someone that has used his more than most...

If you read the past comments you will see that the handling settled in...

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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 17:09

AC motor is also from the windy state, Western Australia so any side wind will be stronger more often than say Adelaide.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 18:13

"If you read the past comments you will see that the handling settled in..."

Talk about misinterpreting a post.(regarding settling in)

Unless I am wrong. Ac motor was comparing his energy consumption over the 40,000km he has driven the car and comparing that to the last 1000km or so that he has had the new tyres on. Looking for slight changes in consumption. In response to this question

Acmotor - are you able to compare the first 1000km or 2000km on the old tyres with this first 1000km on the new ones? Assuming it was similar driving and not just the endless "test drives" for friends that my first kms are.

It was mentioned that when you first get your Imiev your driving style and perhaps ability to get the most efficiency from the car is a little off. I think what AC motor was saying is the first 5000km of driving he logged he spent a good portion of that 5000km testing out the car performance, letting friends blast around in it and got the feel for how to use Regen braking and a general driving style to get consistent and reliable efficiency numbers from his Imiev. So comparing logged efficacy in the first 1000km to the last 1000km on the new tyres would not be a even comparison.

So nothing to do with any part of the car or its handling settling but to do with how the car was used/ driven and energy consumption data consistency settling in.

Regarding wind. In Brisbane we don't have real windy weather (unless there is a thunder storm)Typically just a mild breeze if anything. So usualy cross winds on the highway are relatively mild unless a large truck passes close at speed.

Though we haven't had our summer wet season rain yet. So that could be interesting when we do driving the imiev on the highway when a storm cloud dumps 100mm or so of rain in one hit blankets the road in a sheet of water Image Perhaps the skinny front wheels will be good as they wont sit on top of the water sheet.


Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 07:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by CometBoy » Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 18:55

Zippie11car you are right I’m not a ‘REAL’ i-MiEV driver it is my wife’s car and I would be lucky to driver it 5,000km a year so I will stop posting more....

But will make final posts on the following to tie up some loose ends...

1 - Re the tyres, I repeat, I find it hard to accept a comparison based on memories of the way it was 40,000km ago (err maybe that should be 40,000 minus 5,000? Allowing for a settling in process). Hell I can’t remember what car I was driving 40,000km ago let alone how it drove! Once again I’m sure acmotor is correct but a subjective view... Before spending money and tossing out good new tyres, it would be great to do a like for like test. That is all I am stating. Sorry to upset you guys!

Edit:Forgot to ask one thing! Now much had the wheel alignment changed in that 40,000+km?

2- I will post the data from the gril-0-meter tests maybe today. Acmotor is 110% right on the results and kind of interesting to look at.

3 – I will post an update on the tyre pressures in a few days but once again the monitor shows absolutely no pressure drop now.

Cheers

Bruce
Last edited by CometBoy on Thu, 09 Jan 2014, 08:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by carnut1100 » Sun, 12 Jan 2014, 14:52

How a're tthese tyres going now?
Any bump in energy use?

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Post by g4qber » Sun, 09 Feb 2014, 16:36

Got my new kumho tyres Friday
Same profile as acmotor

Now the imiev sounds like a boat
This is similar to 4wd tyre noise on freeways

The new tyres make the imiev look more normal
Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 09 Feb 2014, 05:38, edited 1 time in total.
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