i-MiEV Range *no discussion*

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Post by Malm » Thu, 09 Oct 2014, 09:06

Mine was at 36,4 Ah with 62.000 km last March. Three years of age at that time. I assume 50,0 Ah at new, so that should be 72,8% of inicial capacity.

Here, Mitsubishi Portugal says that less then 70% of inicial RANGE in 5 years should be degradation over the normal.

SoC can really go to 0%, and from 0% to 100%. Usually my car charges something like 13,25 kWh (13,25 kWh/16 kWh = 83%). That value, 83% of initial capacity, is something that I think is in line with the loss of range that I think had lost.

But sometimes, I can really see my battery using almost 14 kWh from 0 to 100%. So, I assume that my car only uses, most of the times, 95% of the total charge that it can really use.

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Post by Conklinc » Thu, 09 Oct 2014, 14:29

I know here in Australia Mitsubishi Australia does not have any i-MiEV traction batteries "in stock." Replacements have to come by slow boat from Japan, unless you want to pay the air freight. Duh! I know this becuase the i that I bought back in January of this year had a faulty battery and I never took delivery. Eventually . . . read that 5 months later, I got the use of a Hertz Corolla for 3 weeks while Mitsu Australia had a white i with 212 kms on it shipped up from Tazzie. They gave me a hassle over the warranty, as the clock was ticking on in from Feb. 13, but i, I, er . . . eye . . . eventually got that one resolved with Mitsu Australia. I've got about 3800 km's on her now and just absolutely love it. My Camry only gets used for bike rides on the Vic country rail trails, 2 and 3 hours drive one way, out of Melbourne.
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 09 Oct 2014, 17:14

Given that the i was advertised with typically 160km range, I think Mitsubishi will be running foul of consumer affairs guidelines in OZ if they allow typical ranges to be getting down to less than half that i.e. 50 to 80km.
I don't think any i purchasers ever thought that the 160km was real world.... But 100km should be real.

The i is still the world's first mass production EV and hasn't been an easy birth for Mitsubishi.
It has, so far, proven a reliable little vehicle. Battery management is amazing and the pack is aging gracefully. My estimate is 6 to 8 % loss at 63,000km....... However in ant's case I think Mitsubishi's help us required. After all, he wasn't sold his i with the statement " battery capacity is low and likely to disappoint ".

What would be great would be to swap in a new battery pack to ant's i and let him drive around for a week. If it nearly doubles his range then leave it there. That would end the debate.


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Post by antday » Thu, 09 Oct 2014, 17:18

only problem with "lending" me a battery pack that doubles my range would be that it would be impossible get it back off me :)
I think you are right, acmotor, Mitsubishi ( who we have not heard from since the report was lodged ) should really do better than that and I am glad I have the support of the iMiEV community in this. I will go further, to consumer affairs if they drag their feet or point blank refuse.

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Post by reecho » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 04:03

So Ant have you got something in writing from MMAU that states that the warranty for the battery pack is for 80% after 5 years?. I was told 70% when I got my 2010 a few months back.

I have just picked up a power mate 15A meter. This will give me a good indication of my battery capacity...

Image


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Post by antday » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 04:06

I haven't been given anything in writing - I have seen reports of it being 80% - have you got that 70% in writing? If that's the case, I'm screwed...
Still no word from MMAU

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Post by reecho » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 04:28

Might have to sit tight and keep pestering MMAU for a response so they can clarify. The 2010's are unique in that they were all leased. I have in writing that the car has 5 year warranty from my delivery date, as I am the first true "owner", even though it's second hand. So in my mind everything is covered including battery. What is in question is what MMAU use as benchmarks to determine warranty status and possible replacements.

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Post by antday » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 04:30

I'll certainly keep on their case - this issue is too big to let go of it, let us know what your capacity is when you measure it

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Post by antday » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 04:37

Thanks for the info - amazed that MMAU still gave you the runaround on a new car - doesnt give me much hope!

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Post by antday » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 04:48

Thanks for the info - a real worry - really don't think that I was prepared for having such a lack of battery capacity. What is going to have to happen in a few years ( not too far off ) if we dont succeed is to find replacements - someone is going to have to go first and essentially plug in a new battery. Really looking forward to getting a usable range..

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 16:48

..and all that is without mentioning the 8 year battery warranty in the US.

If a dealer offered a 5 year warranty starting in 2014 on an MY2010 then that is potentially a 9 year warranty isn't it ?
I wonder if MMAL were a party to the offer or it was just dealer ware ?

So if ant's battery is below par then I wonder what treatment it had that may have lowered the capacity ?
Is it just years ? Use it or lose it ?
Is is too much time sitting at full charge....that one is likely IMHO on a low km vehicle, I avoid that condition.
Is it too many deep cycles ? Plenty of folk do that though I have never been below 1 bar.
Is it deep cycle then left discharged for the weekend before charging ? Possible but not likely to have been regular.
It surely won't be foot to the floor driving.... I do plenty of that   Image and g4qber tests that all the time.
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Post by Johny » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 16:54

I guess it could also have been left in the car park all summer with no shade. Plenty of dealers leave cars outside in the elements. It's not a big stretch to assume they didn't even think about it for an EV.

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 17:03

Good point, but as a lease vehicle most of its life in need of a charge point, it may have been in a undercover carpark ? Thinking positive here. Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 17:21

I'm thinking the (lead acid) mentality is still flourishing.

Befor I took delivery of my 2012 the sales person kept telling me they have it on charge every couple of days to keep it topped up for me   Image . I told them not to and go put the heater on for a while to knock a few bars off. Lucky the car was the showroom one that was kept in a Air conditioned building.

I have really looked after it for you. I always kept 100% top up and trickle charging to bursting point Image

It can get baking hot in Australia and Like already mentioned Baking hot and 100% charged for long periods. I would expect that to have more of a impact than 50,000km of driving and 20% 90% SOC cycling of the battery.

Think about it there is no active device or warning stopping you from baking the car and battery. There is no device stopping you from cramming every last whr into it and letting it sit like that for long periods.

yet there is LV disconnects and throttle back devices on low SOC. Battery temp in operation is monitored and battery output - regen is governed In HIGH/LOW conditions. There is a lot of protection in place to keep the batteries healthy and protect from a few conditions that can be result in terminal failure of the battery.

100% SOC for long periods and battery baking is up to you to govern and they are two conditions that could be very common with old school lead acid (keep it toped up) mentality and Hot Australian summers.

Other than the above could it be that the data they are reading for battery condition (AH) is guesstimated by the battery management system and it has just got it wrong some how restricting the usable capacity of otherwise healthy cells. Getting a cell out on the bench and just load testing it for capacity would answer / confirm a lot.

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 06:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by g4qber » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 20:26

How much and where did u get the 15 amp power meter reecho?
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Post by g4qber » Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 20:31

58,804k km imiev 2010 going for $14,888

Wonder where it has been http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/detai ... D-16610329
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Post by reecho » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 04:25

Ok.....I did a full discharge and charge cycle at work today. Came up with this on the power mate for battery capacity...

Oh and the power meter can be bought direct from the manufacturer...

Power Mate 15A

Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 04:30

When you say you did a full discharge then recharge .

How low did you take the battery before charging?

As in 2 bars 1 bar 0 bars turtle?

14.9kwh dosn't look that bad

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Post by reecho » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 04:38

0% SOC according to Canion......Well into turtle territory...So 41.38Ah according to my chicken scratchings??
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Post by jonescg » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 04:43

And how many km were travelled prior to the charge?

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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 04:47

OK as a comparison. my imiev 2012 with 14,000km is 16.68kwh from 0% soc ( I didn't take it to 0% only 16% and calculated +16% to the kWh meter. I am getting similar rang to when mine was new.

Edit Wrong calculation

Roughly 10% less than my capacity


Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 10 Oct 2014, 17:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by reecho » Sat, 11 Oct 2014, 04:52

jonescg wrote: And how many km were travelled prior to the charge?


When i started I had around 55% SOC. O used AC and kettle to bring it down to about 10% SOC then the car shut the AC and heating off. So used in gear and headlights to very gradually drop the SOC to 0% via Canion.

The guess-o-meter was confused to say the least after the full recharge.....most likely as the car did no kms....

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Post by Conklinc » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 13:39

Not to change the subject, BUT . . . is anyone aware of an i to be displayed at the AEVA AGM/Festival held Shunday, 26th at the Coburg Town Hall in Metro Melbourne Image

On another sad but recovered note: Thursday week ago, I was backing out of Safeway parking lot the other day and I "connected" with a big Toyota SUV doing precisely the same. Shattered my i's tailgate window and dented the tailgate, just enough to be structurally lethal, and cracked the passenger side tailight.   I had installed a backup beeper for all the good that did.

I immediately called my insurer: RACV. They had me in for an appraisal appointment in Dandenong 2 hours later. I called the local Mitsu maintenance dealer and was told the tailgate and window is available, shipped from Sydney. Image

The repair outfit called Sydney and that fact was quickly confirmed. They ordered the parts on the spot and were told they'd be there on Monday. True to their word, the parts arrived and the panel beaters did the repairs and had my Baby painted and ready by Wed. at 4 pm, just in time for rush hour traffic. Image

My net loss was $625 deductible and my solar charging EV bumper sticker I'd ordered from the States and put on the rear bumper.   Image

Has anyone installed a rear camera on their i? As I mentioned, I have a beeper, quite loud, helps with pedestrians, but not reversing out of car park stalls. I hadn't considered it because of the high drain on the auxilary battery such a camera/video would consume

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Post by Peter C in Canberra » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 13:48

Conklinc wrote:
Has anyone installed a rear camera on their i?

Yes, I have the 2012 model with the Eclipse Sat Nav. A rear camera for that is available as an Eclipse accessory and plugs straight in to use the existing screen. Works well. The camera was attached just left of the point you push to open the hatch.
A friend has the 2012 model without the Eclipse Sat Nav. He installed a separate kit to do the same job.
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 24 Oct 2014, 14:02

That's a great outcome with the smash repair. Couldn't ask for more. Image

From memory you only have the stock CD player not screen? One option would be just to fit a new aftermarket stereo. One with a screen and a lot come with a reversing camera. Or perhaps a simple rear view mirror with built in reversing camera.

Dont worry about power consumption a stereo of small screen is nothing perhaps 10 - 20w. Just your low beam on your lights would be triple that.

In the end some times you just have bad luck. I know at my place in Brisbane I have a house across the road with about 5 cars and a motorbike and they all park out on the road. It's always a challenge to know what car is parked 1/2 way across my driveway or directly opposite. My driveway is backing out up hill so you cant even see the road as you looking up at the sky. Drives me nuts how people have a driveway and garage but park on the road because they are to lazy to pull into their own driveway and back out again.(perhaps they never learned how to back there car)So it's always a random nuisance car in a difficult spot so you can never take it for granted. In the end I am just grateful the Imiev has good vision and is small and nimble. The same driveway with a 5m long dual cab ute and a trailer its defiantly not G rated language as I negotiate next doors car's.
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