i-MiEV Range *no discussion*

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Andrew
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i-MiEV Range *no discussion*

Post by Andrew » Tue, 11 Jun 2013, 17:19

In this thread you can post your range and driving style/conditions for the Mitsubishi i-MiEV. Please keep this topic factual and leave discussion to other sections of the forums.

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Tue, 11 Jun 2013, 20:22

30,057km in 11 1/2 months to July 2013.
Most days travel is 160 to 200km with overnight 2.2kW charge and 4 hours 3.3kW charge during day.
Range on country road + freeway + some city 100-120km.
So around 135Wh/km. Just what the brochure says. Image

a few weeks ago...
Image

Power consuming items in decending order :-

Foot on accelerator D,B,C modes don't make any difference to me, they just adjust the amount of regen on accelerator pedal. C being the least and most relaxing drive mode. B is good for zip around driving.
Heater The 5kW 'kettle' is fast and hot but power hungry.
Aircond Great capacity on a hot day ! average is about 1kW so needs to be on for an hour before it is detectable on power meter.
Lights Should be small amount of power but seem to use more than aircond.
Electric power steering (an assumption) A lot of parking / turning at low speed seems to chew power. I wonder if this is related to the Mitsi choice of narrow front tyres ?
Heated drivers seat actually I prefer it to cabin heater as you are warm yet still have cool fresh air on your face for longer/night drives.
Sound system Basic audio quality but with AM/FM USB CD DVD and phone playlist via bluetooth. At least it doesn't have to overcome the noise of an ICE/gearbox etc.   Image

Power returning items in decending order :-

Regen braking up to 16kW Image
On board charger between 1.4 and 3.3kW via J1772 EVSEs

edit: update km
Last edited by acmotor on Wed, 24 Jul 2013, 17:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by g4qber » Thu, 25 Jul 2013, 01:40

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV

interesting to note the US EPA cycle
"160 km (99 mi) (Japanese cycle)
100 km (62 mi) (US EPA cycle)
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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Thu, 25 Jul 2013, 02:08

That's why the Oz ones are great value for the money. We also get the fast charger port as an added bonus.
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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Thu, 25 Jul 2013, 02:11

Or are the ranges the same, just measured in different units?

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Post by antiscab » Thu, 25 Jul 2013, 02:28

ZIPPIE11CAR wrote: Or are the ranges the same, just measured in different units?


the US cycle is at a higher speed - probably more relevant to us than the Jap one

Also the US iMiev is a larger car, so not as efficient

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acmotor
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 25 Jul 2013, 03:39

None of those numbers matter. Image

What really matter is what range you get on your run. Image
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Post by ZIPPIE11CAR » Thu, 25 Jul 2013, 03:41

True

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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 15:45

I have only traveled 1000km now in the Imiev . Typically I charge after traveling around 100km distance. So usualy with 3kwh of charge capacity remaining in battery.

The numbers are so consistent its crazy.

Every charge has been so close to this number its not funny.

This last charge I was a bit of a test. I drove exactly 100km distance (I charged at this point on purpose) The 100km of driving was a great mix. At times I had 4 people in the car and luggage. Some times 3, 2 and even just myself driving. There was some motorway driving. Some night driving and some air conditioner use. Some hilly terrain and some peak hr inner city driving along with the odd spirited driving up a hill and traffic light race :lol: . I would say you couldn't have got a better rounded mix of real world driving if you tried.

So with the trip meter showing 100km traveled and the SOC meter showing 13kwh consumed (sectioned into 1kwh increments) I put the I-miev on charge through a power meter at the plug. I let the car fully charge and balance the pack over night. This morning the meter was showing 3.2w standby consumption.

Total of 13.49kwh to recharge and balance the battery after traveling 100km. Spot on 135wh - km :)

I just use 135wh - km to calculate range now as its a very consistent average. Works out to be 118.5Km from a the 16kwh pack.

Image

Image

Kurt

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 16:05

All good Image
So the energy consumption label....
16kWh/135Wh/km =118.5185185km range not 150? what were they thinking ?
Must have a different calculator to me.
Not complaining mind you. I am still impressed at going 100km on batteries anyway !
We know from the external power measurement that we are accessing the full nominal battery pack capacity + the charger losses ~5% so measurement is true plug to wheel.
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Post by Johny » Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 16:38

I don't think *no discussion* is going to fly on this forum Image
If the 135Wh/km is wall to wheel (agreed) then the range on the 16kwh pack would be:
Range(km) = 16000/(135*ChargerEfficiency)
If Charger efficiency is around 93% (0.93 = guess) then the calculated range for 135Wh/km is closer to 128km.

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Post by acmotor » Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 16:51

Point taken. (both)Image
The unkown perhaps is what actually is the pack kWh and how much of that is accessable.
From the 16 segment energy meter 1kWh per division seems rock solid though.

edit: that is 1kWh per div plug to wheel of course.
If you factored in a 79% (heaven forbid) charger efficiency then that would give 107Wh/km battery to wheel so 16kWh would go 150km.
But that doesn't add up since an empty battery takes around 16.7kWh from external meter to charge up. (real world experience there).

Still that label....
Last edited by acmotor on Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 06:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 17:04

Yes, I have tested many lithium cells for true capacity using the factory charge and discharge voltage specs on cells ranging from little 10ah cylindrical to 200Ah prismatic and most have exceeded there nominal rated ah capacity from the factory. That said most tests are performed at .3C some times 1C discharge rate.

The 50ah cells in the imiev could well output 55 - 60AH.

The max charge voltage and min discharge voltage will determine what we can use.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 21 Aug 2013, 07:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by g4qber » Wed, 09 Oct 2013, 14:04

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Post by Monkeyboy » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 05:35

Woohoo, new PB!

driven in Eco zone, 132 kms headlights on, Mandurah to Freo under 90 km/h, 0 Kw on meter, no Turtle and for less than 4 bucks,...

Thanks Mr Mitsubishi,...

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 13:29

That's a nice distance especially considering the speed.

I think around 110km is my range limit in my local terrain.The reason for this is I have set a rule not to take the battery below 20% SOC (two bars is 23% SOC).

Kurt

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Post by Johny » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 14:39

Monkeyboy wrote:..., Mandurah to Freo under 90 km/h, 0 Kw on meter, no Turtle and for less than 4 bucks,....
By freo do you mean Freemantle? (Sorry I'm from Melbourne). I gather 132km is round trip? Did you take the freeway or Rockingham rd? Via the coastal rd the elevation change is minimal. Great power economy - well done.

This EV range calculator shows you get 130km range going via Rockingham at 70km/h.

If only you could enter speed zones...
http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/

Image

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Post by carnut1100 » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 15:34

Best I've got so far is mid 40s to half gauge.
I'm waiting on my power consumption meter which I am informed has been posted.

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 16:00

I did my usual trip back from the Sunshine coast hinterland to The Gap in Brisbane on Sunday just over 100km distance. I took the motorway and made sure I sat exactly at the posted speed limit in every section along the way. Other than merging onto the motorway where I did a brief zap to 130kph ( only because I didn't want to be stuck behind stinky diesel)

The weather was nice so no AC or heat just fan on low for fresh air and radio on. Two adults and one child in the car and some luggage total load 150kg.

I started the trip with a 100% full battery charge and logged the trip on Canion app through my OBD scanner.

Trip on map
Image

Elevation profile of trip. While the 500 odd meter elevation decent at 12% grade looks impressive I only gain about 800whr in regen coming down it and it consumes about 2kw going up
Image

Canion logged trip data on tablet, remember you need to deduct the whr regen from the total whr out of the battery.So it orks out to be 10.568kwh out of the battery. The consumption and the online program guessed it at 10.940kwh only 373wh discrepancy between the true logged data and the estimation so not bad for a calculated guess.

Image

Estimated data from online app using same average speed.You can see how the SOC% on canion 30% and the onine programs guess are only a 1.6% off each other. Also you can see in the next pic 4 bars on the Imiev gauge is 30% soc.
Image

What the Imievs gauge cluster was reading at the end of the trip
Image


This is the speeds and distance in each speed zone over the trip I did my best to do the posted speed.

5km - 50 zone
10km - 70 zone
4.5km down steep 12% descent regen holding 80kmh
1.5km - 50 zone
20km - 80 zone
40km - 100 zone
20 km - 60 zone



What I make of all this. Average speed is always lower than you would expect. I sat at exactly 100kmh were ever the traffic would allow over the 40km motor way stretch. I sat at exactly 70 & 80kph through the 30 odd km of country roads again where traffic would allow and 30 odd km of 50 & 60kph zone through towns and city areas I stuck to the posted limits. I would have guessed my average speed as being more like 75- 80kph but it just goes to show how deceiving it is when you add up all the stops and starts and slowing down for bad drivers

On the few small sections of the motorway that are real flat I could sit on 100kph consuming as little at 90wh - km. A interesting test would be to find a nice 50km flat stretch of motorway on a still day and test a 100km return trip at 100kph and see if can be done on just 9 or 10kwh consumption.

It's interesting to compare the three visuals, what the Imiev gauge cluster is telling you at the end of the trip . What the Canion app is logging you and what the trip estimation app is saying you should be
seeing.

Edit: More data screen shots from the trip you can see this one is Avarage speed over the 100km trip (you can see the breif zap to 130kph entering the motorway oops!

Image

This next one is the battery amps showing regen to. Look how I suck 155A from the pack accelerating to 130kmh to merge to the motoray and then save my drivers license by regen braking at 100Amps back to 100kmh . The imiev sure can pump some regen back into the pack.

Image

This final one is the logged whr km over the trip in graph form every km. You can see the regen cumming down the range.
Image

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 06:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Johny » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 16:37

Great figures Kurt. Have you happened to notice how close do you get to a full pack after the 4.5km 12% down grade?
So the online app needs to be given an average speed to get close.
That means a person could use google's 'get directions' to get an idea of time over a trip's distance, calculate Avg speed, then use that for the app. I still haven't found the right combination of RR. Crr etc for the Vogue to get that kind of accuracy (not that I've tried terribly hard).

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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 16:53

Like I mentioned above I only gain 800whr into the battery coming down the range. I consume around 2kwh going up. One thing I do notice because I have a almost full pack at the top of the hill (above 80% SOC) So regen starts to get throttled back a little by the time a get 3/4 way down .

Hmm just looking at the Amps reading again above I was pulling over 170A a few times back in the city traffic section towards the end of the trip (probably trying to blow every one away going up little hills/) Image .

Looking at the volts log the voltage never dipped below 320V even at that late stage in the trip at around 170Amp load so 170A x 320V = 54kw The section powering onto the motorway earlier in the trip I as still holding 335v at 160A load over 53kw nice! It looks like as the pack voltage drops they allow more Amps to be consumed to maintain the max power.

voltage logged
Image

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 06:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by acmotor » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 17:40

Nice data Kurt !
Interesting comment on average speed. My NAV trip meter reports 76.3km/h average on my common trip. (freeway / highway) that returns 135Wh/km. Darn thick air !

Can you log and present your trip in the other direction for comparison ?

So regen 800Wh vs 2kWh for that hill each way.
Working with that, see if my reasoning is correct ..... 4.5km x 2 = 9km using trip average of 104Wh/km gives 'equivalent' flat ground energy consumption of .936kWh
Total actually used on hill round trip = 2kWh - .8kWh = 1.2kWh compared to .936kWh that means the hill only used 264Wh on the round trip due to the fantastic regen !
Makes you feel for EV's without regen. Image
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Post by Monkeyboy » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 17:44

Ooops, She who must be obeyed, reminded me that only 70kms (about 1.5Hours) of headlights. That run is in normal D mode (I do ride the brake a little to keep the regen up, old go karting habit) from Singleton to Kaleeya Hospital Freo. and return (via Old Mandurah Road and along the coast), plus two runs to Safety Bay Beach from Singleton. Never took the Amp Gauge Past High Noon. Very relaxed drive and flowing well with traffic.

Coool,...


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Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 17:51

Yes not all of the trip is at highway speed only 40% and then there are stops and starts and all kinds of other factors that effect average speed It sure didnt feel like we were doing the avarage that we recorded as e were just going along with traffic middle lane in highway and so on.

The 2kw for going up the range is rough number. I will log the trip in return this friday. Yes Regen sure dose add up over a 100km trip.

Next data is 0-100kmh 1/4 mile and in gear acceleration 60 - 80 and so on I have two apps for that on two different devices so will come up with some numbers. Just need to find a straight flat section of road where its legal to do so . 1/4 mile might be hard pressed with only 110kmh to play with but a little over run should see me through .

Kurt

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Post by carnut1100 » Wed, 23 Oct 2013, 03:53

Inadvertently pushed it a bit tonight....
Went cruising after work to see what sort of range I could get before getting down towards 20%

Mix of country roads including some steep hills using full regen on the way down. Driving economically but not full granny mode.

Hit half on the meter at 57km just after I had to turn lights on.
then I got a call to pick my mate up so I went and got him using lights all the way, flattish highway there and hilly back roads home.

Hit two bars and flashing gauge at 87km but the hills pulled it quick. Ran into turtle at 99.6km and got home at 101.3km.

Didn't like pushing that hard towards empty but it got me home.

Seems to be picking up a bit of range as its being cycled, maybe it was grumpy having sat so long.
Reading you guys though I still think it's not giving what it should...
Last edited by carnut1100 on Tue, 22 Oct 2013, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.

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