i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Mitsubishi EV Interest Group
mark_hetho
Groupie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 01:18
Real Name: Mark Hetherington
Location: Tamworth, NSW

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mark_hetho » Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 07:58

I think perhaps it's two different wordings for the same part - there are three components involved as far as I know.

I'm thinking:
Battery Management system (BMS) = Battery ECU
Charger/DC-DC converter = DC Converter
EV-ECU = motor controller

I got an update from the dealer today: 1 month ETA on the EV-ECU, 2 months on the charger/DC-DC converter. However the pricing for the charger is now $3000 instead of $4000, (but the coolant pipes are now a separate part number).

User avatar
coulomb
Site Admin
Posts: 3348
Joined: Thu, 22 Jan 2009, 20:32
Real Name: Mike Van Emmerik
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by coulomb » Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 08:33

Ultralights wrote:
Thu, 23 Aug 2018, 19:50
... i have not heard of an EV ECU yet...
There certainly is:

Image

From the first schematic in the first post of this myiMiEV topic.

There are plenty of computers in a modern vehicle.
Learning how to patch and repair PIP-4048 inverter-chargers and Elcon chargers.

User avatar
Ultralights
Groupie
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed, 01 Jun 2016, 02:19
Real Name: robert
Location: Sydney

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by Ultralights » Fri, 24 Aug 2018, 17:15

i finally found that thread last night, i am up to page 5 so far, very very interesting, thank you for the info of the EV ECU, for some reason i have never heard of it, well, i guess it was not a factor in the failure so never looked for it, or come across it on my research until now.
PHEV, i-Miev, Youtube @SydEV, Twitter @Sydney_ev Insta @Sydney_ev

bladecar
Groupie
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue, 05 Jul 2011, 16:32
Location: Brisbane

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by bladecar » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 06:34

bladecar wrote:
Sun, 22 Jul 2018, 18:00
Well, I regret to say I saw the car! icon again this afternoon after two days free of it.
I know I have 14.4V going into the 12V when the car is charging, and similar to the 12V when the car is turned on.
It looks like I'm in the same boat as everyone else.
Just noting that the car can creep forward with the Car! icon lit, at least mine can, though it won't do any sort of incline. I wonder if this is what turtle mode does since I've never seen turtle mode.
My charging seems ok. I wonder what the Car! icon is really complaining about. I'm going to have to let them learn from it.
One last thing. Does anyone know if this general Car! icon warning was just as common before the recalls when they reprogrammed the cars and whatever else? I always drive my car in B mode.
Hi,

I want to say that a new BMU at $1090 has returned my imiev to normal and I'm thrilled to have it back again as my personal transport :)

Remembering that a new timing belt and service for a camry cost around $1700 10 years ago helps put things in perspective.

mark_hetho
Groupie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 01:18
Real Name: Mark Hetherington
Location: Tamworth, NSW

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mark_hetho » Mon, 27 Aug 2018, 07:40

Good to hear it's back on the road!

Yes, I've been a bit miffed by the possibility of a $4000 repair bill, but I'll definitely want to get it back on the road. Thinking of my neighbours car troubles puts it in perspective. He bought a low kilometre vehicle that seemed to be all in good conditions, mechanic checked it out all OK. 50kms later it put a conrod through the block.

bladecar
Groupie
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue, 05 Jul 2011, 16:32
Location: Brisbane

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by bladecar » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 05:31

Yes. I do treat this car like a go kart that is quiet and you only have to push the pedal for it to magically go.
I only have short distances and it is perfect.
I now have to have an electric car as my personal car. I feel ill at ease thinking about the alternative.
When you believe that a car is sound other than requiring one expensive repair, then that repair cost becomes the cost of getting a car.
We gave the camry to relatives some years ago because the resale value was so low and I didn't want others to benefit from this.
Imievs look silly, but they're affordable, at least second-hand.
I'm not thrilled with Mitsubishi's way of repairing them. Their fault tracking is ok but they seem to have no relevant parts on hand to 'try' for confirmation. The idea of the customer buying their 'best bet' part as part of the repair is unacceptable.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 06:58

We call that "diagnosis by replacement" and it's how someone who doesn't know/understand fixes electrical faults. Not wanting to insult mechanics but the guy working on your car is probably only a mechanic (who is only good for spinning filters, seeing as they work for a stealership) not an auto electrician. There is a reason it's a whole different trade and while some mechanics can do electrical and some auto electricians can do mechanical in most cases it's "Jack of all trades, master of none". A lot of mechanics I know actually just sublet electrical faults out, then claim the glory of the repair (and only tell you the car went elsewhere if there is a problem so they can blame the sparky)
The easiest (not cheapest) way to fix your electrical fault is to throw parts at it until it goes away.
If you have a funny noise coming from your suspension, you might replace a shock absorber, then a wheel bearing, then some bushes, or do a wheel alignment etc. Eventually you'll fix the problem. It'll cost a lot but you'll fix it. Or you take it to a suspension mob(who should know what they are doing) and they may look/listen and say "yep, it's the exhaust hanging on your diff and you need a new hanger, that'll be $3.50...". Problem solved. May be more expensive but the point still stands. Dealerships don't care or know stuff all and generally aren't automotive electricians so when presented with an electrical fault they just replace the "most likely" part/magic black box with voodoo goings-on in it, and hope for the best. If you took your car to a good auto electrician you should feel a lot more confident in the diagnosis because there would of been that (a diagnosis).
Of course that relies them having access to wiring diagrams/pin outside etc, which mitsubishi will no doubt withhold, because why take your car to an incompetent money stealing machine when you can go to an actual proficient technician.
Also you need to find a good auto electrician, most out there can fit spot lights and make pretty switch panels for a dual battery setup, doesn't make them any good.
Hell, there is one down the road from me and the guy installs 4wd accessories, looks good from far/the outside but it's far from good. And that's probably mostly because he is actually a carpenter not an auto sparky. His work is rough, but cheap.
Same with mechanics, just because someone can spin the filter on your car "really good" and always do all your servicing, doesn't mean they should be called a technician and they know shit from clay.

I'll get off my high horse and end my rant. For now

mark_hetho
Groupie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 01:18
Real Name: Mark Hetherington
Location: Tamworth, NSW

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mark_hetho » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 08:11

All that might be true, but I'm not sure most people have an accessible alternative. Maybe I'm underestimating the auto electricians in the area and their high voltage work capabilities? I don't blame Mitsubishi for not having a local staff person qualified in this, nor do I blame the local staff for being cogs in this machine. However I do blame Mitsubishi Australia for not having a process to either ship the parts to a central location where they have the expertise or to a network of qualified people.

I'm very lucky I've got a friend who is adept on electrical repairs. He has already identified blown capacitors in a snubber circuit, and bloating of some filter capacitors. So we are already ahead of Mitsubishi's ability to identify the fault location. The charred parts were in the charger, and Mitsubishi was going to replace the EV-ECU first. (Of course it could also have a fault).

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 11:07

There is a massive lack of training for EVs available to make people "qualified". However if you are a qualified mechanic or auto electrician (ie tradesmen) the grey areas in the law mean that you can work on them from a legal stand point.
That being said there are courses that can be done to get people up to speed on the workings of them and are really critical if you have any interest in working on EVs.
The rules are a bit funny but basically if you are in a dealership the European laws are followed (and there is special training required to allow people to work on HV components). This is just corporate people covering their arses. The end result is a lack of trained people to work on your car and you may not get the best person for the job, just the guy/girl with the ticket.
Otherwise in the private sector any automotive tradesman has the right to /is allowed to work on HV parts.
Once again training is strongly recommended, and duty of care makes it a necessity.
So you can take it to your local Autosparky and they can do the work. But you should find one who has done training because at least that means they have enough of an interest to be proactive about working on them. And hopefully may know what they are doing.
Unfortunately there is knowledge out in the private workforce but a lack of experience and time/chances to experiment.
So most people just go to the dealership and get robbed because they are the "experts".
I do agree that it's not the people on the floor at mitsubishi that are the problem. Its a lack of training /interest from the higher ups

mark_hetho
Groupie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 01:18
Real Name: Mark Hetherington
Location: Tamworth, NSW

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mark_hetho » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 12:55

I guess I was coming more from a practical than legal standpoint. I honestly would have assumed the local auto electrician might only give me a bemused look if I took it to him., although that is uncharitable of me. I should probably contact one to ask them if do work on EVs in case I need to call on one in the future.

User avatar
mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 16:00

Do you know if there is much repairing going on of electronics in ICE vehicles, or do they just replace whole modules there too? My impression is they are not designed to be repairable. Would be less of an issue if the components were cheaper, and were in the country.

mark_hetho
Groupie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun, 05 Jul 2015, 01:18
Real Name: Mark Hetherington
Location: Tamworth, NSW

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mark_hetho » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 16:33

I think it's similar - an ECU gets replaced wholesale. Although the cost of that is from my knowledge under $1000, and in cars I've dealt with you can swap it out by just unplugging it and plugging a new one in.

I think there are a lot more ICs and less discrete components in an ice ECU, so repairability would be lower. The other thought that strikes me is they would be a single board device (maybe not anymore but those I've looked at). The imiev charger consists of multiple boards. Being able to source a board and swap components at that level would make sense.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 28 Aug 2018, 17:07

You'd be lucky to get out of an ecu replacement for $1000 on most new cars.
Repairs are unlikely as they are as you said usually single boards with multiple layers of tracks and ic's rather than discrete components, not to mention they are usually permanently sealed or covered in resin. And you also need to find someone willing to do circuit board repairs which are becoming few and far between. Another big hurdle is testing. To test a module that's been repaired you need the car or half the modules in the car need to be sent away with the module to be repaired because they are all intertwined with vin locking.
Most newer cars will need parts to be programmed just like the various imiev modules. Manufacturers love to make everything vin locked because then everyone is forced to return to the dealership and in 10 years when they don't make the part/refuse to work on it because it's too old the car becomes unrepairable and you'll need to buy a new car.

User avatar
mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 10:49

Charger didn't arrive at end of August, now they are expecting it end of September. They do have the cooling hoses though.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1820
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 18:42

Considering Mitsubishi would have a well sorted international shipping logistics arm for all the parts inventory to support the full range of Mitsubishi Cars. Most likely receiving thousands of parts each month to support hundreds of thousands of cars in Australia. Perhaps receiving several shipments of parts from Japan each week.


I find it absolutely F*** ridiculous that ordering a Imiev charger the size and weight of a stereo HIFI amp could take so many months. What are they carving it out of stone with a toothpick before strapping it to a sloth trained in backstroke paddling it across from japan.

I would be going ballistic at this incompetence.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 18:59

I get parts from mitsubishi through work and they told me they get a shipping container(s) every 6 weeks. So if you order a part ex Japan it could be a couple of days if it's timed right but 6 weeks is meant to be the longest it can take unless Japan has no stock at which point they wait until they have a reasonable order quantity before they get a batch made from their suppliers.
Thats what the delay will be. You're waiting for say a hundred to fail and be ordered ex japan
Last edited by brendon_m on Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 20:04, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
offgridQLD
Senior Member
Posts: 1820
Joined: Tue, 23 Jul 2013, 16:05
Real Name: Kurt
Location: Fleurieu Peninsula, SA

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 19:12

it takes 23 - 27 days from Japan Sydney. I'm sure they would have staggered orders to. I find it hard to believe that they would have zero stock of the chargers in japan. Though I can see you point if they had to have a batch made.


If they pulled there finger out they could make something happen and in a hurry I'm sure. To me it reeks of being strung along.

User avatar
brendon_m
Groupie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat, 28 Oct 2017, 11:00
Real Name: Brendon McCarrol

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 20:07

Oh I agree, they make enough millions to provide a better service /faster parts but they want to sell cars not parts.

User avatar
mikedufty
Senior Member
Posts: 511
Joined: Tue, 02 Dec 2008, 00:15
Real Name: Michael Dufty
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 21:26

I'm just hoping that after 6 weeks they don't say it hasn't been sent yet, like last time.

rhills
Site Admin
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri, 25 Jul 2008, 01:57
Real Name: Rob Hills
Location: Waikiki, WA

Re: i-MiEV not charging, high voltage warning light and battery

Post by rhills » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 21:54

offgridQLD wrote:
Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 18:42
...What are they carving it out of stone with a toothpick before strapping it to a sloth trained in backstroke paddling it across from japan...
I thought something similar when advised recently of a mid-December ETA for a replacement battery pack for our PHEV. We've contacted Mitsubishi Australia and have a "case manager" on the job. Will be interesting to see if that makes any difference...
Rob Hills
AEVA Webmaster
2014 Mitsubishi Outlander Aspire PHEV
Jul 2014 - Jun 2018
Total Petrol: 586.8L
ODO: 42885
Av Consumption: 1.37 L/100km

Post Reply