Got my motor turning today Wahoo
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
For any Danfoss experts...
I tried changing the way I do reverse. instead of one profile and selecting reverse. (This gives a top speed of 80+ kph in reverse) I wanted to change profiles to go 'anticlockwise'.
Now. If I stay in one profile and change from 132Hz clockwise (which works fine) to 132Hz Anticlockwise the motor gets over torque errors at about 700RM and vibrates and hunts madly.
This might be one for the Danfoss tech.
I tried changing the way I do reverse. instead of one profile and selecting reverse. (This gives a top speed of 80+ kph in reverse) I wanted to change profiles to go 'anticlockwise'.
Now. If I stay in one profile and change from 132Hz clockwise (which works fine) to 132Hz Anticlockwise the motor gets over torque errors at about 700RM and vibrates and hunts madly.
This might be one for the Danfoss tech.
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Sun, 11 Jan 2009, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
- acmotor
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- Real Name: Tuarn
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Not certain how to read your timeline there and being no expert on Danfoss I can only make suggestions. Please ignore them if you have already covered the points. Hopefully someone with inside knowledge will step in.
Most vehicles can do 80kmph in reverse so that should not be a concern.
You are likely to require full torque in reverse so depending on the setup, you may not wish there to be any limits.
How different is your setup from my speed mode ?
Beware the automatic interaction between parameter changes.
I have not found a description of these interactions other than that they occur as there is some obvious intelligence between par 100,200 and current / torque settings / feedback.
Guidelines do note that the parameters should be changed in a particular order and that some changes will change other related parameters and not reverse them if the original parameter is changed back. It all makes sense so you can't select the impossible.
Some parameters such as par 400 (brake function / overvoltage control) will change all 4 setups despite you being in the edit of only one setup. i.e. not all parameters can be changed by setup (1-4) change.
When in doubt, I go back and check all and try to keep one setup as my standard (known working) one.
Do consider the MCT10 software and RS485 connection with a PC as it has made setup and logging a whole lot easier / clearer for me.
I use an ADAM USB to RS485 converter to connect to the standard Danfoss RS485 serial bus, althought there are many other options for coms depending on your unit.(i.e. profibus etc).
Most vehicles can do 80kmph in reverse so that should not be a concern.
You are likely to require full torque in reverse so depending on the setup, you may not wish there to be any limits.
How different is your setup from my speed mode ?
Beware the automatic interaction between parameter changes.
I have not found a description of these interactions other than that they occur as there is some obvious intelligence between par 100,200 and current / torque settings / feedback.
Guidelines do note that the parameters should be changed in a particular order and that some changes will change other related parameters and not reverse them if the original parameter is changed back. It all makes sense so you can't select the impossible.
Some parameters such as par 400 (brake function / overvoltage control) will change all 4 setups despite you being in the edit of only one setup. i.e. not all parameters can be changed by setup (1-4) change.
When in doubt, I go back and check all and try to keep one setup as my standard (known working) one.
Do consider the MCT10 software and RS485 connection with a PC as it has made setup and logging a whole lot easier / clearer for me.
I use an ADAM USB to RS485 converter to connect to the standard Danfoss RS485 serial bus, althought there are many other options for coms depending on your unit.(i.e. profibus etc).
iMiEV MY12 105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Thanks as always Tuarn.
I spoke to Danfoss today. No response on the problem yet.
As an aside, the mysterious earth and phase loss problems have gone away. touch wood.
I am running open loop and have essentially copied your configuration, and added the multi setup.
BTW, it works fine forward and reverse if I choose a single setup using Reversing.
I have the MCT10 software and my RS485 adapter arrived conveniently by post today. You are correct, much easier.
FYI here is my current and problematic configuration. Profile 1 is forward, 2 is reverse. Elextrolux_Multi_Profile.zip
OK on the 80kph in reverse.
BTW, I see you are back to open loop control. what made you change?
I was hoping there was an over range error that could be tripped if the low side of the pot got disconnected for some reason. (only available on feedback) Have you mitigated this risk at all?
I was searching for VLT5000 info using Google and came across the following interesting point from http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/f ... hp?t=11281. I haven't tried it yet.
...There is several configurations to set for the starting torque. On Danfoss VFD there is a configuration, number 110, "motor magnetization at 0HZ", which is set at 100% as standard. This is a very important configuration to set in order to achieve highest possible starting torque. When i increased this setting to 200% all my starting problems and trips with nasty alarms disappeared...
I spoke to Danfoss today. No response on the problem yet.
As an aside, the mysterious earth and phase loss problems have gone away. touch wood.
I am running open loop and have essentially copied your configuration, and added the multi setup.
BTW, it works fine forward and reverse if I choose a single setup using Reversing.
I have the MCT10 software and my RS485 adapter arrived conveniently by post today. You are correct, much easier.
FYI here is my current and problematic configuration. Profile 1 is forward, 2 is reverse. Elextrolux_Multi_Profile.zip
OK on the 80kph in reverse.
BTW, I see you are back to open loop control. what made you change?
I was hoping there was an over range error that could be tripped if the low side of the pot got disconnected for some reason. (only available on feedback) Have you mitigated this risk at all?
I was searching for VLT5000 info using Google and came across the following interesting point from http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/f ... hp?t=11281. I haven't tried it yet.
...There is several configurations to set for the starting torque. On Danfoss VFD there is a configuration, number 110, "motor magnetization at 0HZ", which is set at 100% as standard. This is a very important configuration to set in order to achieve highest possible starting torque. When i increased this setting to 200% all my starting problems and trips with nasty alarms disappeared...
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Mon, 12 Jan 2009, 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
- acmotor
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- Real Name: Tuarn
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Re speed open loop. I blame you !!! I was inspired by your gear tooth inductive pickup and decided to remove my 4096 pulse encoder and go for an 8 tooth inductive PU, but haven't been happy with its operation (read non operation) so I've gone back to speed open loop and it works fine. Truth is, if I can get acceptable operation that way I will stay with it. Danfoss and others insist their sensorless control is good !
Torque open loop is less effective on start torque than torque closed loop though.
I found par 110 increases also increased cogging at low RPM under load, although this is not conclusive as there are other interactions going on there.
I would like to experiment with the user selectable v/f profile par 422-432 next.
Re pot low side error.
I have a micro-switch fitted to accel pedal as well to detect zero position. I do use it in series with ign 'start' momentary position to supply pulse start only if foot off accelerator. It could be used to short demand to VFD i.e. wiper to 0V if required. Where do you stop ?
If analogue inputs are 10kohm then when fed by 5k pot then O/C on the wiper results in zero demand. O/C on low side gives 67% demand. Not good but at least not 100%.
I'll look at your MCT10 file.
Torque open loop is less effective on start torque than torque closed loop though.
I found par 110 increases also increased cogging at low RPM under load, although this is not conclusive as there are other interactions going on there.
I would like to experiment with the user selectable v/f profile par 422-432 next.
Re pot low side error.
I have a micro-switch fitted to accel pedal as well to detect zero position. I do use it in series with ign 'start' momentary position to supply pulse start only if foot off accelerator. It could be used to short demand to VFD i.e. wiper to 0V if required. Where do you stop ?
If analogue inputs are 10kohm then when fed by 5k pot then O/C on the wiper results in zero demand. O/C on low side gives 67% demand. Not good but at least not 100%.
I'll look at your MCT10 file.
iMiEV MY12 105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
The speed sensor is now functional. If anyone would like to buy the old one, it will be suitable for a DC conversions to sense 2 pulses per revolution for the tacho. $30 and its yours. 
Reverse using '132Hz anticlockwise' still messes up. In closed loop the motor spins to max RPM after being liner for the first few hundred RPM.
The only change in the program is from '132Hz clockwise' to '132Hz anticlockwise'
I am working with Danfoss support to try and resolve it but I fear it is a firmware problem or a fault in the drive.
My fall-back is to run in reversing mode using a single profile as Tuarn suggests.

Reverse using '132Hz anticlockwise' still messes up. In closed loop the motor spins to max RPM after being liner for the first few hundred RPM.
The only change in the program is from '132Hz clockwise' to '132Hz anticlockwise'
I am working with Danfoss support to try and resolve it but I fear it is a firmware problem or a fault in the drive.
My fall-back is to run in reversing mode using a single profile as Tuarn suggests.
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Wed, 14 Jan 2009, 19:43, edited 1 time in total.
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
I will have to take the blame for that one then 
One annoying thing with open loop is that when 'running' while stationary, the displays a few RPM, not zero RPM. Does yours do that? I run the tacho and the speedo off this reading so I would like it to be correct if possible.
Thanks for the tip on the micro switch on the throttle pot. Great idea

One annoying thing with open loop is that when 'running' while stationary, the displays a few RPM, not zero RPM. Does yours do that? I run the tacho and the speedo off this reading so I would like it to be correct if possible.
Thanks for the tip on the micro switch on the throttle pot. Great idea
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Answering my own post must be a sign of insanity.
OK I can run the speedo off the feedback rather than calculated RPM so open loop would be OK.
OK I can run the speedo off the feedback rather than calculated RPM so open loop would be OK.
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Wed, 14 Jan 2009, 19:57, edited 1 time in total.
- acmotor
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- Real Name: Tuarn
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Re non zero speed indication in open loop...
Check....
par 123 minimum frequency for activating function at stop, may need to increase this maybe 0.2% and check function at stop is coast.
par 309 / 310 scaling of reference (accel pot), min scaling may need to be increased if pot does not go to zero volts. You can display this voltage by scrolling on LCP (input terminal 53)
So many options !
I have never reversed a Danfoss by par 200 ??? Only ever by LCP or digital or RS485 input.
Do you need to change par 203 /204 / 205 as well to make sense ?
If you want 2 setups to switch between, use an otherwise unused digital input that can be set to 'reverse' for one of the setups (and NOP for the other) and leave all other pars the same except say the frequency limit.
Feel free to ignore me if you are on top of all this already !
I'll find a rock
Check....
par 123 minimum frequency for activating function at stop, may need to increase this maybe 0.2% and check function at stop is coast.
par 309 / 310 scaling of reference (accel pot), min scaling may need to be increased if pot does not go to zero volts. You can display this voltage by scrolling on LCP (input terminal 53)
So many options !
I have never reversed a Danfoss by par 200 ??? Only ever by LCP or digital or RS485 input.
Do you need to change par 203 /204 / 205 as well to make sense ?
If you want 2 setups to switch between, use an otherwise unused digital input that can be set to 'reverse' for one of the setups (and NOP for the other) and leave all other pars the same except say the frequency limit.
Feel free to ignore me if you are on top of all this already !
I'll find a rock

Last edited by acmotor on Wed, 10 Jun 2009, 22:02, edited 1 time in total.
iMiEV MY12 105,131km in pure Electric and loving it !
- a4x4kiwi
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- Joined: Thu, 03 Jan 2008, 19:04
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
good idea for reversing.
There is more than one way to skin a cat with this controller.
So many options.
There is more than one way to skin a cat with this controller.
So many options.
- Johny
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Mal, can I ask which sensor you ended up using - part number? I gather the teeth are unchanged and are still the same as that shown in your blog.
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Hi Johny,
The teeth are unchanged (40). The sensor is the AE1-AP-1A.PNP, 1.5mm sense, cable $49.50 from Automation Direct
The teeth are unchanged (40). The sensor is the AE1-AP-1A.PNP, 1.5mm sense, cable $49.50 from Automation Direct
- a4x4kiwi
- Senior Member
- Posts: 772
- Joined: Thu, 03 Jan 2008, 19:04
- Real Name: Malcolm Faed
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
Thanks to Tuarn for all your help.
Here is my running config at the moment. I will connect the drive shaft on Sat. Wish me luck!
The related schematics are on my blog in case you need to make sense of the 3xx settings.
Setup 1 - Forward
ID Name Value
009 Display line 2 Feedback [unit]
010 Display line 1.1 Dc link voltage
011 Display line 1.2 Reference %
012 Display line 1.3 Output energy
014 Local stop Disable (0) Prevents rapid deceleration.
102 Motor power 15.00
103 Motor voltage 415
105 Motor current 28.00
106 Motor nom. speed 1450
108 Stator resist 0.2641 From AMA
109 Stator react. 20.33 From AMA
113 Lo spd load comp 0
114 Hi spd load comp 0
115 Slip compensat. 0
119 High start torq. 0.5
123 Min.f. func.stop 0.1
128 Mot.therm protec Etr warning1
200 Out freq rng/rot 132 hz bothirections
205 Max. reference 132.000
206 Ramp type S2 (2) Gives better low speed control.
207 Ramp up time 1 6.00 Economy
208 Ramp down time 1 3.00 Economy
209 Ramp up time 2 4.00 Power
210 Ramp down time 2 2.00 Power
221 Torq limit motor 348.5 drive Max.
222 Torq limit gener 66.6 10kW max regeneration
227 Warn. feedb. low -4,500.000
228 Warn. feedb high 4,500.000
300 Digital input 16 Setup select LSB
301 Digital input 17 No operation
302 Digital input 18 Latched start
303 Digital input 19 No operation
305 Digital input 29 Ramp 2 (17) Power / Economy switch
306 Digital input 32 No operation
307 Digital input 33 Encoder feedback input A
314 Ai [mA] 60 funct No operation
319 Ao 42 function Fb min-max =0
320 Ao 42 puls scale 66 Speedo Cal
321 Ao 45 function Fb min-max =0
322 Ao 45 puls scale 144 Tacho Cal (Check if should be 150 = 4500/60*2)
323 Relay 1-3 funct. No operation
325 Relay 1-3 off dl 0
326 Relay 4-5 funct. No operation
329 Encoder pulses 40 Set for speed pickup
345 Enc loss timeout 0.2
409 Trip delay torq. 60 Maximum
410 Inv.fault delay 35 Maximum
411 Switch frequency 14.0 Maximum
415 Max. feedback 4,500.000 This value should be 10% higher than par. 205
416 Ref/feedb. unit Rpm (3)
422 U0 voltage (0hz) 7.3
445 Flying start Enable (1)
446 Switch pattern 60° avm (0)
457 Mains imbalance Warning (1)
Setup 2 - Reverse (Changes From Setup 1)
205 Max. reference 50.000
303 Digital input 19 Reversing (1)
Here is my running config at the moment. I will connect the drive shaft on Sat. Wish me luck!
The related schematics are on my blog in case you need to make sense of the 3xx settings.
Setup 1 - Forward
ID Name Value
009 Display line 2 Feedback [unit]
010 Display line 1.1 Dc link voltage
011 Display line 1.2 Reference %
012 Display line 1.3 Output energy
014 Local stop Disable (0) Prevents rapid deceleration.
102 Motor power 15.00
103 Motor voltage 415
105 Motor current 28.00
106 Motor nom. speed 1450
108 Stator resist 0.2641 From AMA
109 Stator react. 20.33 From AMA
113 Lo spd load comp 0
114 Hi spd load comp 0
115 Slip compensat. 0
119 High start torq. 0.5
123 Min.f. func.stop 0.1
128 Mot.therm protec Etr warning1
200 Out freq rng/rot 132 hz bothirections
205 Max. reference 132.000
206 Ramp type S2 (2) Gives better low speed control.
207 Ramp up time 1 6.00 Economy
208 Ramp down time 1 3.00 Economy
209 Ramp up time 2 4.00 Power
210 Ramp down time 2 2.00 Power
221 Torq limit motor 348.5 drive Max.
222 Torq limit gener 66.6 10kW max regeneration
227 Warn. feedb. low -4,500.000
228 Warn. feedb high 4,500.000
300 Digital input 16 Setup select LSB
301 Digital input 17 No operation
302 Digital input 18 Latched start
303 Digital input 19 No operation
305 Digital input 29 Ramp 2 (17) Power / Economy switch
306 Digital input 32 No operation
307 Digital input 33 Encoder feedback input A
314 Ai [mA] 60 funct No operation
319 Ao 42 function Fb min-max =0
320 Ao 42 puls scale 66 Speedo Cal
321 Ao 45 function Fb min-max =0
322 Ao 45 puls scale 144 Tacho Cal (Check if should be 150 = 4500/60*2)
323 Relay 1-3 funct. No operation
325 Relay 1-3 off dl 0
326 Relay 4-5 funct. No operation
329 Encoder pulses 40 Set for speed pickup
345 Enc loss timeout 0.2
409 Trip delay torq. 60 Maximum
410 Inv.fault delay 35 Maximum
411 Switch frequency 14.0 Maximum
415 Max. feedback 4,500.000 This value should be 10% higher than par. 205
416 Ref/feedb. unit Rpm (3)
422 U0 voltage (0hz) 7.3
445 Flying start Enable (1)
446 Switch pattern 60° avm (0)
457 Mains imbalance Warning (1)
Setup 2 - Reverse (Changes From Setup 1)
205 Max. reference 50.000
303 Digital input 19 Reversing (1)
Last edited by a4x4kiwi on Thu, 15 Jan 2009, 11:03, edited 1 time in total.
- a4x4kiwi
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Got my motor turning today Wahoo
New topic started called AC Tuning