Francisco's Electric Pajero

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francisco.shi
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Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Thu, 27 Sep 2018, 14:41

Brief history of the project;
The car is a 2002 Petrol Pajero. I bought it new. The car is getting old and starting to cause problems. It burns oil, the aircon is making some bad noises ... But apart from that the body is in reasonable condition. I wanted to buy an electric car when I get a new car and it is time to get a new car but there are no electric cars that suit my requirements (the closest is a model X but it can not go off road or on the beach)
So I decided to convert it to electric. Since I finished uni I always wanted to make an electric car. My specs were similar to the first tesla roadster except at that time Lithium batteries were not around. NMH or NiCd were the best. Anyway I had to get on with life and never got around to making it.
So I decided to start the project around 2 months ago.
The specs were the car had to be the same or better than it was originally (150kw, 0-100kph in about 15sec). I also wanted to have AWD (the pajero is a full time AWD).
My plan was to take a standard induction motor and rewind it to run faster so I could get more power. If I was going to get better performance I needed about 100kw per motor, one for the front and one for the back. But I still had to do the water cooling which was a bit messy. So I decided to have a look around for what motors were available and I came across a Chinese made water cooled permanent magnet motor.
I got all the specs and I worked out that I should be able to get at least 200kw peak from the motor. (but I didn't tell them what I was going to do) So I ordered two motors.
After I got the motors I measured some of the parameters and found out that the specs they gave me were not quite right. The torque was right but the wingdings were the wrong voltage.
So I worked out that I had to rewind it to half the original voltage. So I went to some local rewinding shops and eventually I found some one who would rewind it for me without asking too many questions.
After the measurements on the motor I worked out that I can get 300kw (maybe more) peak and about 150kw continuous per motor. So the total peak power will be around 600kw. So if everything goes well it should be able to do 0-100kph in around 4 seconds.

I also decided that I would build the inverter and gear box. My plan is to have the gear box motor and inverter in a single unit.
I a planning on a single speed gear box driving the diff directly. From data on the car at 100kph the tail shaft is running at 3000 rpm. The motor's stop speed is 12000 rpm so I decided to go for 150kph top speed. I did not think there was any point on going faster since the speed limit is 100kph. So that gives me a tail shaft speed of 4500rpm So my gear box needed to have a 2.6:1
I designed the planetary gear box so it would fit on the end of the motor. Then I started to try to find some one to make the gears with no success. It seems it is very difficult to find anyone to cut internal helical gears. After feeling very frustrated I happened (by chance) to see an add on ebay of some one selling some ring gears out of a Jeep. After some further searching I found out that transfer cases have a planetary gear box. So after some short search I found a Toyota transfer case for sale near me. So I went and bought it and pulled it apart and there it was. Just what I needed. It has a ratio of 2.566:1 which is perfect and the best thing is they are very cheap and easy to get.
So I changed my design to use the gears from the transfer case. I need to do some modifications to make everything fit.
This was a big relief as I did not want to use straight cut gears.
The other part of the project is the inverter. I am also building the inverter as part of the motor.
The inverter is half done. Now I need to find some one to make the bus bars and try to buy the power transistors.
I will try to post some pictures when I find out how to add pictures to the post.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by 4Springs » Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 18:29

Some project!
I'd like to encourage photos, here are some tips to post them:
  • Click on the Attachments tab below the editor box.
  • Click Add Files and choose your file to upload.
  • The files appear in a row, click "Place inline" to put them in the text.
  • If you don't press that button, they apparently appear anyway! I didn't know this, but the file I just uploaded as a test seems to be stuck on here now. Can't figure out how to remove it. At least it is EV related!
Attachments
IMG_1870.jpg
IMG_1870.jpg (769.25 KiB) Viewed 913 times

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 21:38

I have tried to find the attachment tab but I can not find it anywhere. There is an image tab and a picture tab at the top but it just puts this Image or this [image=][/image] and I still can not find anywhere it will ask for a file name.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by 4Springs » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 05:11

francisco.shi wrote:
Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 21:38
I have tried to find the attachment tab but I can not find it anywhere.
There is a discussion thread on this topic that explains in more detail: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5280
Go to the second post and there are screenshots of the process for posting images. Apparently the Attachments tab is hidden in a hamburger for certain browsers...

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by brendon_m » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 06:57

I don't have the attachment tab on mine(something to do with mobile?) , I just create an embedded image in onedrive and the put the link in between these "img" thingos but without the spaces
[ i m g ] h t t p s : / / k8cdsg.bn.files.1drv.com/y4moI0XUSnK52fwL1g0Xmzlw4ZafNHOTCth2I4fU-1QJE7Aoh9yvo128X8Pnen8hngwhRv6DSvUD433iESBO6ZBWod65LpYkug3N7Ixku90LNXjFEkAynjoLEaCED_0ZAih-3PWTjaHbFYdSuA65ARvB3yuwPggpYS80ODtCdQSWHG8HkkwEOSuU6m-pOaT3BWYngn6tm3Q79n8C4XWgdwyVw?width=1080&height=1920&cropmode=none [ / i m g ]

So it's like this
Image

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 17:34

I have been trying to find the attachment tabs but I can not get them.
If I zoom out a lot I can see the hamburger but when I click on it nothing changes. I tried to drag the picture from file explorer and drop it to where I enter the message but it did not work. On firefox it does nothing. On Chrome it just shows the picture as a file and looses the page.
I do not have one drive or any other website I can post the pictures and reference to them.
I did have a look at the new forum tips but I could not get any of them to work. I am wondering if the administrator has to allow me to add attachments.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:15

I put some pictures into google photos. Here are some photos. See if this works. Image
The picture above is of one of the motors.
Picture of cad model of motor with gear box on the end. Image
Machining the motor's flange to remove some feature to allow the gearbox to mount close to the face of the motor.Image
Machining the outer spline off the planet carrier of the gear box.Image
This is the picture of the motor with the sun gear in the shaftImage
I still have to put a plug on the gear and get the spline machined.
Motor with gears on the end. Image

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:17

Another try to put an image. [image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... ApUYo4tLEw[/image]

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:23

The picture of one of the motors. [image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... YOX1SXRzr3[/image]
Picture of cad model of motor with gear box on the end. [image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... ApUYo4tLEw[/image]
Machining the motor's flange to remove some feature to allow the gearbox to mount close to the face of the motor.[image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM ... 2JrD9-hdr3[/image]
Machining the outer spline off the planet carrier of the gear box.[image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP ... 5yh5PAXwiV[/image]
This is the picture of the motor with the sun gear in the shaft. [image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN ... 2PV6PqeEjf[/image]
I still have to put a plug on the gear and get the spline machined.
Motor with gears on the end. [image=]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipO ... QwyAlZP1-s[/image]

I think this is the best I can do for now. If anyone can tell me how to make the pictures come out in the post please let me know.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:26

Cad model.
Image

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:31

Here is another try at adding a picture.
Cad model of motor and gearbox. Image

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:32


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coulomb
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by coulomb » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 19:17

francisco.shi wrote:
Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 18:32
[image=]https://photos.app.goo.gl/TsFrAACD8et3Bs2t5[/image]Another try.
The tag is img, not image, and there is no =.

Also, your URL is to a complete web page, not a single image. So you need (without the spaces):

[ img ] https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... 54MnYzN19B [ /img ]

Which unfortunately results in
Image
because the image URL isn't a straight file name; they ?key= thing seems to confuse the forum software.

I managed to get it to work as follows. Using Chrome, I used "Show image in new tab" from the context (right mouse button) menu. Then I copied the resulting URL, and surrounded in [ img ] and [ /img ] tags, without the spaces. The image icon above the edit window inserts these tags around the present text cursor position for you.

Result (for the first image):
Image

The URL between the image tags still isn't a proper file name (it doesn't end in .jpg etc), but it seems to work.

As for why clicking on the "hamburger" icon does nothing, I have no idea. The light works fine in my office :( I assume that you are using the scrollbar at the far right of the browser window, to scroll the whole page, not the one in the edit window, which only scrolls within the edit window.

[ Edit: "without the quotes" -> "without the spaces" ]
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 19:37

When I press the picture icon I get the [ img ][ /img] tags (without the spaces) which is what I did but it prints Image.
Image
This time I just typed the tags instead of using the picture icon.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by jonescg » Sat, 29 Sep 2018, 20:06

That's only for linked (third party) images. To add an image to this forum ensuring it's never lost like all my Photobucket images, it's best to resize to 800x600 pixels and upload as an attachment.

Anyway, more about the electric Pajero!
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by Richo » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 12:49

francisco.shi wrote:
Thu, 27 Sep 2018, 14:41
After the measurements on the motor I worked out that I can get 300kw (maybe more) peak and about 150kw continuous per motor.
So the total peak power will be around 600kw.
And where will the 600kW (700kW after losses) come from?
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by Richo » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 12:55

Just a quick Check.
Leaf cells would be like 80kWh so not realistic.

SCiB LTO 12kWh pack with ~45km range would be about AUD$35,000 could get you 700kW.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 15:53

I haven't got to the batteries yet. But I know the problem. I have two possible solutions:
1) limit the output power to what the batteries can take and will depend on how big a battery I end up having.
2) limit the output power depending on the battery temperature and assume I will not be trying to race teslas often so exceeding the battery max C a few times will not reduce the battery life too much.

Also when the motors are running at lower speed the current drain from the battery is lower even if the motor is running at full current.
The other point is that it will not cost me much less to have lower power motor-inverter so for now I am building everything so that the limit will be the battery.

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by Richo » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 12:30

Even a decent sized pack of 20kWh prismatic lithium cells with 10C peak will be 200kW.
More than this I'd think you'd go over the GVM.
So I'm guessing current limiting will be the flavour of the day.
Other than using LTO's where you trade range for power.

Still it'd be an awesome view pulling 600kW in a 4WD 8-)
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 18:10

I have a few more pictures.
Here is the donor transfer case (Toyota Prado 1996-2002 5VZ V6) It happens to have a ratio of 2.566 for low range which happens to be almost right for the ratio I need.
Here is the picture of the transfer case (before) Image

Image

I had to modify the sun gears. First made a plug Image

Image

Image

Image

Then press the plug into the gear. Image

Image

Then get a spline cut into the plug so the gear can go into the motor spline. Image

Image

One of the motors being sent to the rewinding Image

Image

Now I have to make the cases and output shaft for the gear box and I should have the motor ready to attach to the diff. It will be about 2 weeks to get some of the parts for the cases.

[ Edited Coulomb: attempted to fix the images. Left old image tags in place just in case. ]

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by francisco.shi » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 18:43

The expected "pulling" capacity will be about 30% higher than the original maximum pulling capacity in 1st gear (peak output of the petrol engine is around 4000rpm, around 35kph in 1st gear), except it will be able to keep pulling with that force all the way up to about 150kph. I guess if I limit the current draw from the batteries I will be able to get the same pulling capacity but it will start to drop off before it gets to 100kph.
At 10C I would need 60kwh of batteries. I am unsure of the weight of 60kwh worth of batteries but it will be loosing a lot of weight from the stuff that will come out.
engine, gear box, transfer case, exhaust, fuel tank. The fuel tank alone is almost 100kg when it is full and I am sure there will be at least another 200kg (maybe more) in the engine and gear box.
I will have to weigh the electric motors when they are finished but I expect it to be around 60kg each. (motor, gearbox and inverter)

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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by coulomb » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 19:48

I edited your original post (now two posts back) so the images would appear for me (Chrome (on PC and phone), and Firefox). They way I did it was to use "Show image in new tab" on the photos.google.com images, go to that new tab, and copy the URL that appears there. On other browsers, there would be similar ways to discover the "real" URL for the photo (with no "?key=..." in the URL). In these cases, they came out as very long URLs like lh3.googleusercontent.com/... . The URL is very long, but it seems to work. It remains to be seen whether the long URL remains valid; perhaps it will change if they host the images on another server in the cloud. For that reason, I kept the original URLs.

I think that perhaps hosting your photos elsewhere (I've used imgur.com) might be easier.

If you have trouble seeing these images, or see two sets (six pairs of images instead of six images), please post about it here.
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by Richo » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 13:07

francisco.shi wrote:
Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 18:43
I am unsure of the weight of 60kwh worth of batteries but it will be loosing a lot of weight from the stuff that will come out.
Here are some approx weights for 60kWh:

LiFePO4 cylindrical 652kg
LiFePO4 prismatic 594kg
Leaf modules 518kg
Tesla modules 268kg

Sorry I haven't checked the cost or if all these are 600kW capable...
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by Richo » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 13:10

Machinist and controller design your like superman :mrgreen:
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Re: Francisco's Electric Pajero

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 19:47

Richo wrote:
Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 13:07
LiFePO4 cylindrical 652kg
LiFePO4 prismatic 594kg
Leaf modules 518kg
Tesla modules 268kg
Probably throw in nmc cells into that list as well at about 405kg


Edited for formatting

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