fordccapri project?

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spud115
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fordccapri project?

Post by spud115 » Thu, 19 Nov 2015, 23:27

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fordccapri project?

Post by spud115 » Thu, 19 Nov 2015, 23:31

getting used to this forum but... we have been thinking for some time about converting a car - ive selected this one - mainly because of the large hatch space and engine bay space.
It runs a 4cyl at present.
The potential body mods - I don't mind, mounting the motor etc - no probs. Whatim not up to speed on is what components would give me the best result. I would be looking for a system that would be readily "upgradeable" as battery technology etc improves

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 04:56

Looks like a good donor! As long as it's in good condition and has little rust, it should be a great platform. Now cause this was a pretty 'sick' car for its time, you wouldn't do it justice unless it had boatloads of power for such a light chassis Image

I might sound like a cracked record, but AC is a far superior drive train than DC. It costs a little more, but is well worth it. I assume this is a rear wheel drive (with a bonnet that long it must be) so mounting a motor nice and low will be relatively easy.

This leaves a bit of room up top for a battery compartment under the hood. Not the best spot from an engineering perspective (under the seats is ideal) but you can possibly fit a fairly decent number of cells up there. You can always split the battery into two parts, but this makes maintenance more difficult and also limits the upgrade path.

Leave the battery till last. Just set the motor and controller in the space available, leaving as much space as possible for the battery. Then design the battery to fit inside this space. Lots of options for cells - and the used Leaf cells appear to be a winner for DIY conversions. Can you post a few pics of what's behind the front seats? And under the hood?
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fordccapri project?

Post by spud115 » Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 13:43

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Post by spud115 » Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 13:50

Thank you for the reply - if AC is best, then AC it is.

Yes its rear wheel drive. The engine bay measurements u can see above (its another capri I have, but the panelling is essentially the same - easier to get to at the mo) - the under hatch area measures 900 (front to rear) and 1200 (side to side) - the area under the hatch floor is similar (so I could conceivably mount batteries over and under the hatch floor?).(the rear seats fold forward - and I don't need them at a pinch)
diff ratio choices are 3:1, 3.22:1, 3.44:1 and at a pinch 3.75:1
gearboxes (do I need one?) - I can use either a 4cyl 4 speed, a v6 5 speed or a T5 (borg warner 6 or 8 cyl box)

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Post by jonescg » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 01:13

Select the right motor and you don't need a gearbox. The only reduction will be in the differential. Any motor capable of ~250 Nm and 5000 rpm should suffice - set the top speed to something reasonable (like 140 km/h) so that the majority of its life is spent at modest torque levels.

The best place in a car for the batteries is low and between the wheel base. This isn't always achievable, but do try to get as close as possible to this area, as the car will handle so much better. The engine bay is a good spot for chargers, DC/DC converters, other electronics and so on. Keep the batteries out of the crash zone, as well as away from the beating sun on the hood. And make sure they are sealed from both the road grime below, and the cabin above - if they go thermal, you don't want to be inside at the time.
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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 02:45

AC35X2 would go well in it

and no that is not 2 AC35's cobbled together

HPEVS AC-35x2 3-Phase AC Induction Motor + Dual Curtis 1239-8501 Controller Kit

Image

the beauty of it is you can use both to get up to speed and just 1 to cruse
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 15:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EV2Go » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 03:03

Adverse Effects wrote: AC35X2 would go well in it

and no that is not 2 AC35's cobbled together

HPEVS AC-35x2 3-Phase AC Induction Motor + Dual Curtis 1239-8501 Controller Kit

Image

the beauty of it is you can use both to get up to speed and just 1 to cruse


If you wear a skirt you could go that route, or you could get a big boys duel.

http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors ... s/k11dual/

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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 03:20

EV2Go wrote: If you wear a skirt you could go that route, or you could get a big boys duel.

http://kostov-motors.com/tractionmotors ... s/k11dual/


Image your pointing to a DC system Image looks like your in the skirt Image

the AC35X2 is around 160HP and 185 foot-pounds of torque not to mention Jack at EVTV only has 1 left and is selling it as a full kit at around 1/2 the price others are selling just the motor

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Post by zeva » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 04:16

Adverse Effects wrote: the AC35X2 is around 160HP and 185 foot-pounds of torque

Aww, 160hp, how cute.. Image

And also, over AU$10K (inc shipping and GST)! When jonescg says AC "costs a little more" than DC, that's a bit an understatement. A DC motor+controller with 200hp peak will cost you under $5K. I'm not saying you should definitely go DC, but it's worth giving some thought if you're after bang-for-buck.

(BTW I'd recommend Netgain motors if you're looking for big power in DC, as they have much bigger brushes and windings than Kostovs so can handle much higher peak power.)

Beautiful car, by the way. Always been a fan of those old Capris.
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Post by jonescg » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 04:31

I was actually thinking that an induction motor + inverter setup would be around the $6000 or $7000 mark, with the inverter being the bulk of the cost. Those AC-35s are a bit underpowered for their size and weight, but a good start.

But... if you really want to go all out, get something like an Evo AFM140 motor and a Rinehart PM150DZ and you'll be cooking tyres with >230 hp with a smile twice as big. And a very empty wallet Image
Probably $20k worth of drive there, but it's just so smooth, solid and reliable. Real shame the manufacturers aren't making them cheaper for the DIY scene. You could always take the motor and inverter out of a crashed Leaf and go from there too.

Edit - and take twice that system... you have this Image
Image
Last edited by jonescg on Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 17:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 05:15

zeva wrote:Aww, 160hp, how cute..

And also, over AU$10K (inc shipping and GST)!
that is not just A motor and A controler

1:- AC-35x2 motor
2:- 2 X Curtis 1239-8501 Three Phase Controllers
3:- 2 X Prefabricated Wiring Harnesses
4:- 2 X Tyco Kilovac Contactors
5:- 2 X Precharge Relay with Resistors
6:- 2 X Curtis 840 Display with Switch and Bracket
7:- Custom machined aluminum chill plate with gasket and two barbed fittings. Bolt the controller directly to it. Included.
8:- HPEVS Wiring Diagram
A DC motor+controller with 200hp peak will cost you under $5K. I'm not saying you should definitely go DC, but it's worth giving some thought if you're after bang-for-buck.


so your saying you can get all of that above in DC for $5K NEW (including shipping)for anyone that wants it not just you and mates rates
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 18:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by zeva » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 06:35

Well, I only mentioned motor and controller for $5K. But how about a Motenergy ME1002 motor + ZEVA MC1000C controller .. leaving $1500 for those other things.

Edit: I'm actually not sure if that Motenergy is OK at 1000A - would probably have to run it by EV Works.
Last edited by zeva on Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jonescg » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 06:53

Damn that's a heavy motor for just 25 kW continuous...
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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 07:00

zeva wrote: Edit: I'm actually not sure if that Motenergy is OK at 1000A - would probably have to run it by EV Works.


from there website
"Continuous current of 205 amps at voltages of 48-144V"

so it carnt even do what 1/4 of the AC35X2 can do

AC35X2 = 68Kg

Motenergy ME1002 = 90kg

AC35X2 = RPM 5000 then drops off

Motenergy ME1002 = 4500rpm then drops off

so nothing you listed will match or even come close to the AC35x2 kit i listed
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Fri, 20 Nov 2015, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 07:19

oww did i mention you dont need to clean out brush dust out of a AC motor like you do in a DC Image

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Post by spud115 » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 14:15

the 230hp option does sound nice! (of course). and then id have to get a battery pack to suit. If I could build a car that had the range and the power for not crazy money.....

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Post by zeva » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 17:02

Adverse Effects wrote: from there website
"Continuous current of 205 amps at voltages of 48-144V"

so it carnt even do what 1/4 of the AC35X2 can do

Continuous power and peak power are not the same thing.
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Post by jonescg » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 17:28

spud115 wrote: the 230hp option does sound nice! (of course). and then id have to get a battery pack to suit. If I could build a car that had the range and the power for not crazy money.....


Yeah, we've not got onto the budget yet - and that's a good thing because it puts a wet blanket on all these great ideas...

The redeeming feature of spending a lot of money on a solid power train is that it frees up more space and weight for batteries. As with most things, the more you spend the lighter/smaller/more powerful it is.

I just heard from Rinehart Motion Systems about gaining access to more Evo motors. Not good Image GKN said they can supply one-off sales through Rinehart, but at a price that's truly depressing. You could buy a used Nissan Leaf for the same money they are asking for a single motor! AUD$23,000 before GST and duties Image

Strange, cause I bought my motor back when the company was Evo-Electric I only paid about AUD$10,000.
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Post by Adverse Effects » Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 17:49

zeva wrote:
Adverse Effects wrote: from there website
"Continuous current of 205 amps at voltages of 48-144V"

so it carnt even do what 1/4 of the AC35X2 can do

Continuous power and peak power are not the same thing.


the AC35x2 can do 420amps Continuous current
Last edited by Adverse Effects on Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 06:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EV2Go » Sun, 22 Nov 2015, 02:18

jonescg wrote:
Edit - and take twice that system... you have this Image
Image
That's electric car porn!

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Post by spud115 » Sun, 22 Nov 2015, 02:21

yep it looks the part all right (would look better in my capri)

thanks for all the info - it seems tome that it does boil down to doing a budget (but nice) conversion using the combo you've set out (adverse effects) - that does look like a solid option. Or take a longer and more expensive road to a nastier car. If I did spend 30k odd it would have to come with a decent range or it would really bug me. spending 10-15 and getting 100-150km is ok ... I think ill go to some club meetings and sus some cars out.
Last edited by spud115 on Sat, 21 Nov 2015, 15:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Adverse Effects » Sun, 22 Nov 2015, 03:11

EV2Go wrote:That's electric car porn!


that is sexy isnt it LOL Image Image

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Post by jonescg » Sun, 22 Nov 2015, 05:34

There are some high energy density options for batteries out there, like most things they come at a price. Usually power and range, just like time and money, are related like an asymptote - lots of one and little of the other.

Image
Last edited by jonescg on Sun, 22 Nov 2015, 07:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by reecho » Sun, 22 Nov 2015, 17:31

The most important thing will be to check out the donor car for any chassis rust. As per a lot of UK built Fords of that era they come with rust at no extra charge. Some of them were just woeful... Image

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